gt2560r vs EFR6258
 

Hi guys, so I am going to turbo my NB2. My power goals are around 240-250whp. I want to stay on stock internals reliably.

I know the efr is a great turbo, but is it with the extra money? If I go with the efr, I will purchase the Trackspeed engineering kit. Price=3k before tax. I will have to wait to save enough money for this.

My other option is the garret gt2560r. If I go this route, I will get the FM manifold and downpipe etc. Price=1700 before tax. I can get this now.

My deadline is the MRLS event in october so I want to have everything dialed in before that event.

I have searched and have not found any comparisons of these two specific turbos on a stock motor. So don't flame me.

250hp on stock internals doesn't sound reliable to me.

if you want to do it once, you wanna do it right, and since the efr is modern tech and 2560 is 80's tech, I'd go EFR and not look back.

but the 2560 is a real neat turbo and should work just fine too, miata's have been running with them for 20+years

What sounds reliable to you?

Thanks for the input!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465531707

You'll probably have to get with the fact that you're too late and you're not going to meet your deadline to be at MRLS and be trubo... just saiyan

Get a TSE EFR if that's what you truely want, goto MRLS stock 'now'... show up 2017 SS3 BUILT and bro down. :eggplant:

Miatas have been reported to run many years at 250hp. I blew up an engine at around 230hp. Too much low-end torque around 4000rpm was presumably my problem.

Just accept the fact that even the 6258 will eventually vent the block and pick up my brand new 6758 for a killer price :D

The 6758 is too big of a turbo for me. I like fast spool. hehe.

But....boost. :(

So what are you suggesting?

Get the 6258. Run at 220hp. Buy used engine or short block and install Ebay rods and some aftermarket pistons while you're enjoying the 220hp. Don't blow up your old engine if you can avoid it. Side-venting the block isn't too bad, even though the sounds it makes are nasty. But setting your pistons free of the annoying tether of the rod will have them impart their kinetic energy onto the valves above. The valves were not designed as shock absorbers and will deform, subsequently sticking out of your head at odd angles.

try again


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465532889

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465532889

NAh, YOU LATE TO TEH BUILD!

pessimist

Which is which?

I have a used engine. Ebay rods?

Then do your build and show me HD Laguna photos... I'll be waiting

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465533774 :eggplant:

top red vs bottom red
6758
2560

the efr comes with a bpv, an adequate internal gate, and a boost control solenoid too.
*mike drop

define killer price

I will PM u pics :naughty:

Maby I should start a build thread?

Consensus is that any forged rods are adequately strong. The ones on ebay are the cheapest. It's recommended that you purchase ones with arp bolts if you go that route.

so like these? Manley 1990 2005 Mazda Miata 1 6L 1 8L DOHC BP B6 Forged H Beam Connecting Rods | eBay

Yeap. Have run ebay rods to 8,800 RPMs, 30 PSI boost without a failure. Have pushed carillo's harder without issue, but would not hesitate to run cheap rods again.

You're the one that said if I'm gonna do it, I may as well do it right. What is this "killer price"? It may sway me.

sweet.

So, what do I need to build the motor to handle 300whp?

Rods, pistons, new damper, valve springs? what else?

Manley rods are available from several forum vendors for less than that. The "eBay" rods will be $300 or less. Brands like scat and others I think. I believe Manley h beam is the standard rod used for trackspeed engine builds.

This has been discussed before. You might do a search and see what people think, opinions vary on what is needed vs nice to have.

Rods only for 300whp if you're cheap cheap cheap. I've done this a few times, it worked well, but I broke stock pistons around 350whp on pump gas. I think with E85, they're stay together at 350whp. There's two people I believe on the forum doing exactly this right now. I now have a $$$$ motor with all the things.

Search brah, it's been discussed before in detail. It depends on your other goals, if your going to rev high, or run e85, or track the car. Varying levels of build, although the differences aren't huge, unless you start getting into lots of head work.

*edit: Patsmx5 beat me to it

ohhh. ok ok

well, 300whp is where I would cap out. I don't want any more than that. I should probably search this but...how long will the motor last with just rods at 270-280whp. This is my daily sooo...

With a good tune on pump gas, many years.

With a good tune on E85, forever.

Crap enough tune, seconds.

Ya I should probably search this up. Higher revs is always a plus. Maybe e85. Def tracking the car tho.

Awesome. I think I may just do this actually. I can get e85 near me too so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

The you say good tune, do u mean MS auto tune or pro tune. I assume the latter.

OOOOOooooo......Manley Forged H Beam Rods Mazda Miata 323 Proteg Escort 1 8L BP with Arp Bolts | eBay

You could tune the MS to be safe, it takes a lot of time/reading (searching) to learn how to do it. It's what a lot of people do, it's what I've done for years. A pro could do it as well if you'd rather save the time and know it's done right of course.

First you need to buy another vehicle you can daily while working on this. Ever turbo'd a car before? Cuz it isn't as easy as you're making it sound, even if you start with a kit.

I have access to another vehicle if I need it. Not an issue. And I don't expect this to be easy either so....ya

The real first thing to do is start searching and reading.
Then do it again for hours and hours and hours.
Then come back and have a pretty good grasp on what it takes, and have much better questions that we will gladly answer for you, because we will see that you're serious about doing this and did the initial leg work.


It's right there in the classifieds.

I'm mostly joking though, he really doesn't need a 6758. But most end up with one after swearing up and down that they "only need 200hp". So this might save you the time and trouble. With these new tech turbos boost threshold is quite different than an old garrett.

I might be biased, but here's how I see it:

$1700 + cost of high-quality oil/water lines ($290 from FM) + cost of Inconel studs ($99 for ours, FM's kit is incomplete) + cost of EBC valve (~$50) + cost of OEM-quality bypass valve ($150 from FM) + fittings to install said bypass valve ($??) + turbo inlet/outlet adapters (~$100) + likely boost creep at low power levels unless you spend time/money porting the wastegate (and there's still no guarantee it won't creep) = ~$2400, lots more assembly and fiddling, and less ultimate potential without another turbo upgrade later on...

or...

$3100, which includes the Inconel studs, the high-quality oil/coolant lines, the Inconel studs, the EBC valve, the OEM-quality bypass valve that's already installed, no need for turbo adapters, no boost creep, at all, ever, plus better response, more power, and room to grow easily to your max power goal of 300whp (and an upgrade path to 400+whp should you want that later).

Our stuff is admittedly more expensive. It's more expensive because it's better, IMO. :party:

It is expensive, but at this moment I am pretty sure it is the best setup on the market. If anyone gets in contact with me about tracking a turbo miata, your setup is the only one that I recommend. I can't wait until downpipes are done and I get my TSE installed.

I built my set up around a 2560. it is awesome, spools super quick and makes good power. That being said, I am running all of what it will put out now. I took three weeks to go from my goal 12 p.s.i., to about 20. Although I built it to track, I took it to the local 1/8th mile a couple weeks ago, and at 8.3 sec. and 89 mph. it felt like a slug. I will be installing some new goodies (6258??) this winter..... Boost is addicting.

Ryansmoneypit rules for turbo build:
1. Take your boost goal, and add 10 psi to that.
2. Take your budget, triple that.
3. The time you think required for completion, triple that.

None of this is even remotely sufficient.

run e85 and ALLTHETIMING and I bet it wont feel like a slug.
then later get a 6758 and make your 6 speed a consumable

You are in southern Cali where E85 is readily available, to the majority of the country E85 is simply not around. There are a total of one brand of gas stations that have E85 in my area. The majority of the east cost where I drive its simply not around. The only place I have seen it at a ton of gas stations was when I was in the middle of the country where they grow corn.

sold

It may not seem like I have done much research, but trust me, I have. I made this thread because when I was doing research, I could not find any answers to my question. I understand what is needed in a turbo build and how everything works. I don't really understand what a better question is. I admit, the question where I asked, "what would be needed to build the motor?", was extremely noobish. I shouldn't have asked that, but at the same time, if it wasn't for me posting that question, Pat would have never said that all I really needed was just rods. And that is the route I will be taking.

You must be putting down a LOT of power.

OP: Do it once, do it right. Build a used block with ST pistons and some mid-range forged rods. The machine shop work I did for my block was something like 600, and that was with OS pistons. Take everything apart in advance to save on shop labor.

Rods only build is good 250-350whp depending on the tune. The stock low compression 1.8 pistons are pretty robust, but if you don't have a great tune above 300whp det can kill them.

the thing is though, it's all relative and depends entirely on your goals and plans, and you can formulate those based on a lot of research and looking at what others have done.

if you did research, great.

You ask how to build an engine, pat will say rods only, others will say if you're in there its crazy not to do pistons, others will say pump and damper is mandatory, and so on and so forth.

Then there comes the budget question: some are poor/broke, and want to just hit their power goal for absolutely the lowest price possible. Others see the benefit of quality parts and don't want to replace them later, and get the best. Others yet are somewhere in the middle.

Makes sense. I guess I would place myself in the middle. If a cheaper part does the same thing as a more expensive part, and is just as good for my needs, I don't see the point in going with the more expensive part. But if the more expensive part is more durable/better, I will just spend the extra money on that part.

A good tune will be the first thing I do once the turbo is slapped on.

parts like intercooler piping don't matter.

when it comes to turbo, the more expensive unit will literally do everything more efficiently. but if you're gauging improvement on whether it's simply hitting a peak power goal, then all the advantages won't be noticed because both can do 250hp

I was thinking more like engine internals. I am just going to go with the efr setup. Its better. Time to go do some more research on things.

MiataMan00 keep the thread updated with your choices.
I am in the same boat with you(1.8 VVT engine thou). I have messing around with Z-engineering supercharger(total s##t) bought used- never again. I did buy a new(56kmiles) engine and 6spd yesterday for build. I have MS3 and RX8 injectors already (will keep those for the new build). Also doing the research to take the right path.
I will limit myself at the moment with the injectors(will keep the RX8 ones). As I am tracking my car, looks like its safer to get the new rods.

If you REALLY did research as you say, then how in the hell did you end up with RX8 injectors? Cheap ing out by 200 bucks here, is a poor decision.

Bought them for the z-eng supercharger setup like 3-4 years ago, don't want to buy new set again if I can.

Wants to build a 3-5 thousand dollar turbo/ engine combo. Doesn't want to spend 400 on injectors that could possibly save the engines life.
How smart does that sound when you read that out loud?