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Old 04-02-2016, 02:32 AM   #1
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Default gt3071r build e-85

hey guys iv been lurking on the forums for a few years and thought id post up some info on my set up to see what you guys think. By the way i only run E-85. just tossing that out there before people say that im going to burn my exhaust valves not running enough ignition timing on gasoline.

gt3071r turbo mated to a FM manifold and then 3 inch down pipe and 3 inch exhaust that I made.

MSPNP2 tuned by myself "still has a lot of ignition timing left but im scared to add it in" and innovative lc2 wide band

1200cc injectors special order from deatchwerks on a dual feed rail and AEM fuel pressure regulator.

250 lph fuel pump

manly forged rods

super tech forged 8.6:1 pistons

rotating assembly balanced by me to within 1.5 grams "dont hate."

IGN-1A ignition coils "similar to ls2 coils but more spark output and longer spark duration with less dwell time" but very expensive

minor port work i mostly just went in and cleaned up the casting i didnt want to make them any bigger just clean up the obvious things like around the valve stem guide and the bowls then smooth out the runners and gasket match.

however stock valves and springs "only spring kits i can find only offer it for NB style keepers and it costs more for the keepers than the damn valve springs and titanium retainers!!"

ATI harmonic balancer and gates blue timing belt "I put the timing belt on when i did the balancer"

im also running a FM 315 ft*lb rated clutch and a 5 speed.

the car feels quick however i know there is a lot left in it as im only running 15-20 psi " i have the waste gate set at 15 but i havent ported the internal gate on the turbo so i get some boost creep"

hopefully if i turn the boost up more the creep will be less of an issue due to the turbo needing more exhaust gasses to flow through the turbine and not be dumped.

anyways im just curious as to what you guys think i did correctly and what i fucked up.

also what power do you think this set up is capable of?

PS. pictures do not show the igntion set up as the engine bay shot was before those coils









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gt3071r build e-85-80-img_6282_19d4f55619281ac792adb458e7e56ac400f1aa6a.jpg   gt3071r build e-85-80-img_6371_81d4065a329185e67915bfb5817265870f4b6793.jpg   gt3071r build e-85-80-img_4501_2__02a2589af3983368287d5484b846e217e970fa29.jpg  
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:38 AM   #2
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Also i didn't just finish this build its had a built motor and the turbo set up for about one and a half years now but i ran on gas with 700cc injectors. the 1200cc injectors came when i decided to go e-85 last summer.

I'm mostly curious as to what kind of power you guys think this car can make on e-85 as i have never been to a dyno and probably will never go until i have the tune all figured out.

i plan on going to EFI university's Accelerated certification course this summer to learn how to tune a little bit better. right now i just tune by what i have read in tuning books iv purchased.
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:47 AM   #3
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15psi is good for roughly 290-300whp on this turbo. 29-30psi and you're looking at 380whp, maybe more on E85. Although you should be breaking the 5sp gearbox at 250-260whp.
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:36 PM   #4
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Nice looking car and definitely a solid list of mods. What does your timing map look like? Have you run a datalog through virtual dyno to see what kind of power it's making? With a good tune, e85, 15psi on a gt3071 I would think you should be over 300whp.

FWIW, I was running this timing map on my 9.5:1 compression motor on E85 and had several people tell me it was too conservative.

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Old 04-02-2016, 04:41 PM   #5
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Nice looking car and definitely a solid list of mods. What does your timing map look like? Have you run a datalog through virtual dyno to see what kind of power it's making? With a good tune, e85, 15psi on a gt3071 I would think you should be over 300whp.

FWIW, I was running this timing map on my 9.5:1 compression motor on E85 and had several people tell me it was too conservative.

I'll post up a snap shot of my ignition map. I know off hand that you have about 5 degrees more timing in that upper row than I have so that will defiantly be something I work on dialing in with det cans and my accelerometer
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Old 04-02-2016, 04:47 PM   #6
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"1200cc injectors special order from deatchwerks"
Any DW injector bigger then 750s are **** even those are meh ......Sell/return and acquire some IDs.
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Old 04-02-2016, 05:32 PM   #7
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"1200cc injectors special order from deatchwerks"
Any DW injector bigger then 750s are **** even those are meh ......Sell/return and acquire some IDs.
Why are they "meh" do you not like their spray pattern or are they difficult to tune drive ability? And what makes the ID better than the deatchwerks?
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:04 PM   #8
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they are not just meh
they are crap. they don't idle properly and is just a crappy injector. inefficient. going ID is a really good suggestion

also, 10* is silly low. like why even waste time
also, you won't hear det on e85 for another 30 or 40 degrees, so its kinda a waste of time
also, some of the stuff is pretty janky, so I'm gonna guess 250-300hp
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:20 PM   #9
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they are not just meh
they are crap. they don't idle properly and is just a crappy injector. inefficient. going ID is a really good suggestion

also, 10* is silly low. like why even waste time
also, you won't hear det on e85 for another 30 or 40 degrees, so its kinda a waste of time
also, some of the stuff is pretty janky, so I'm gonna guess 250-300hp
have you personally run deatchwerks injectors or tuned cars with them and you know from experience? the 1200cc injectors in my car are able to easily maintain a proper air to fuel ratio at 800 rpm, also i have not really had an issue tuning with the injectors.

in exactly what ways are the injectors crap? i just knocked out idle quality but if you know something about the spray pattern or something scientific about them please inform me as i would love to know why they are crap but just telling me they are crap leads me to believe you do not know enough about them to tell me why.

also what parts of the build do you see as janky? please name each component you feel is not of good quality and state why. otherwise your information will be deemed in-valid.

i appreciate any information you guys have and am willing to take suggestions however i am looking for more than "crap or janky" as an answer.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Racing View Post
have you personally run deatchwerks injectors or tuned cars with them and you know from experience? the 1200cc injectors in my car are able to easily maintain a proper air to fuel ratio at 800 rpm, also i have not really had an issue tuning with the injectors.

in exactly what ways are the injectors crap? i just knocked out idle quality but if you know something about the spray pattern or something scientific about them please inform me as i would love to know why they are crap but just telling me they are crap leads me to believe you do not know enough about them to tell me why.

also what parts of the build do you see as janky? please name each component you feel is not of good quality and state why. otherwise your information will be deemed in-valid.

i appreciate any information you guys have and am willing to take suggestions however i am looking for more than "crap or janky" as an answer.
I have presonally tuned at least 20-30 cars with DW injectors, yes.
Please post up a log of your perfect idle, I'd love to see it.
They are ev6 tech hogged out to flow 1200cc, at really low pulsewidths they are very unstable and you gotta run em real fat to maintain idle.

But please, show me a perfect 800rpm log for like 5 minutes with the car cycling fans, turning on ac, etc and maintaining a perfect, stable 800rpm at 14.7AFR and I will gladly eat my words.

if your stock 5sp is still alive, that tells us already that you're not making much power, because at 15-20psi and 15-20* (should be the minimum on built engine/e85) you should be well over 250tq and that 5sp will shatter like glass

is the 3071 a garrett? is it iwg or ewg? it just seems like you spent a good amount of money, but most of the parts you picked are pretty mediocre (for today's standards). if you didn't spend much money, then good for you and congrats. but my power estimate remains until proven otherwise.

valid or invalid, our opinions are what you asked for, and we've seen enough setups (and I have tuned enough setups) to have a pretty good idea of where your car should be.

don't get offended or take this the wrong way though, I'm sure your car is still a blast, I'm not trying to flame you here (seriously)

back in 09 or something, my '00 was a very similar build to this. on low timing it made 260, and when I finally upped it, 307
back then it was pretty sweet. nowadays it would be pretty mediocre (though I did use proper injectors, even back then, lol)
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:36 PM   #11
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Let it be known this is probably the first time ever 18psi agreed with something i suggested.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:38 PM   #12
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LULZ, so salty

here, have a cat
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:40 PM   #13
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I have presonally tuned at least 20-30 cars with DW injectors, yes.
Please post up a log of your perfect idle, I'd love to see it.
They are ev6 tech hogged out to flow 1200cc, at really low pulsewidths they are very unstable and you gotta run em real fat to maintain idle.

But please, show me a perfect 800rpm log for like 5 minutes with the car cycling fans, turning on ac, etc and maintaining a perfect, stable 800rpm at 14.7AFR and I will gladly eat my words.

if your stock 5sp is still alive, that tells us already that you're not making much power, because at 15-20psi and 15-20* (should be the minimum on built engine/e85) you should be well over 250tq and that 5sp will shatter like glass

is the 3071 a garrett? is it iwg or ewg? it just seems like you spent a good amount of money, but most of the parts you picked are pretty mediocre (for today's standards). if you didn't spend much money, then good for you and congrats. but my power estimate remains until proven otherwise.

valid or invalid, our opinions are what you asked for, and we've seen enough setups (and I have tuned enough setups) to have a pretty good idea of where your car should be.

don't get offended or take this the wrong way though, I'm sure your car is still a blast, I'm not trying to flame you here (seriously)

now that is a post im looking for!

im not asking you to eat your words just prove what you said.

i do not have ac so sadly i can not give you that test data. the fans turn on at 160 and i have a 180 thermostat, i could bump up the temperature for them to turn on for a test if you would like.

i can get you the data in the up coming weeks but i am in no way saying that the deatch werks are the best i just wanted to know why you thought they were crap and now you have given me a proper explanation.

also the turbo is a garret gt3071r

as for the transmission what would you recommend? the NB 6 speed?
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:42 PM   #14
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yeah the 6sp is your "cheapest" step up. it should hold up to about 400 on the street (not track tho). everything else is pretty pricey
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:46 PM   #15
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and dont worry about me getting offended that would be impossible to do, im a college kid building a miata when all my friends have corvettes and bmw's. the only benefit to me building a car instead of buying one is that i learn all the ins and outs where they only know how to pay someone to do the work.

the reason i want such detailed posts is to learn! iv read many forums and i have chosen parts that i felt would work together. i am still learning and trying my hardest to learn everything i can so that one day i can open a race shop.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:50 PM   #16
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Why is your fan coming on at 160?
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:53 PM   #17
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should be 195/190 on/off or something like that. at the most
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:55 PM   #18
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yeah the 6sp is your "cheapest" step up. it should hold up to about 400 on the street (not track tho). everything else is pretty pricey
i have another factory 5 speed that i was thinking about taking apart to determine how difficult it would be to get straight cut gears, i know that the case hardening on the factory 5 speed wears off and causes the trans to murder itself.

if i could find straight or stronger helical cut gears such as Quaife's product for less than 2 grand i would be interested
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:56 PM   #19
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Why is your fan coming on at 160?
i wish i had a great answer for you other than that is just what i had set it at.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Racing View Post
have you personally run deatchwerks injectors or tuned cars with them and you know from experience? the 1200cc injectors in my car are able to easily maintain a proper air to fuel ratio at 800 rpm, also i have not really had an issue tuning with the injectors.

in exactly what ways are the injectors crap? i just knocked out idle quality but if you know something about the spray pattern or something scientific about them please inform me as i would love to know why they are crap but just telling me they are crap leads me to believe you do not know enough about them to tell me why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I have presonally tuned at least 20-30 cars with DW injectors, yes.
Please post up a log of your perfect idle, I'd love to see it.
They are ev6 tech hogged out to flow 1200cc, at really low pulsewidths they are very unstable and you gotta run em real fat to maintain idle.

But please, show me a perfect 800rpm log for like 5 minutes with the car cycling fans, turning on ac, etc and maintaining a perfect, stable 800rpm at 14.7AFR and I will gladly eat my words.
Just for another reference about the DW injectors. I ran DW1000's in my car in 2010/2011. They needed need to run pig rich at idle to stay smooth, and the upper fuel values I needed in my VE table was horrible. I was not happy with them at all.

I then switched to ID1000's and there was a night and day difference. I could idle at 14.7 perfect at whatever rpm I wanted and the idle was smooth. My fuel table looked so much better after tuning.

After that experience I will never recommend DW injectors to anyone for any reason. ID1000's if you have the money, otherwise Flowforce if you are on a budget.
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