Help with LC-1 / Megasquirt wiring, lots of pictures, tell me what I did wrong.
 

When I purchased my car, it had been previously turbocharged. I found a wideband in trunk with a gauge. It is an LC-1, unknown gauge model.

I took apart the loom and looked up innovates manuals and product manuals and figured out all of the wires in the loom. I attempted to hook it up in my car, but the gauge is not powering on.

I have also tried installing an MS3x built by braineack but purchased from a different forum member here at the same time as the wideband.
I have used what I think is a ridiculous length of vacuum line, at an attempt to not drill my firewall.
After hooking everything up according to manuals, and my research on this site and others I haven't been able to get power to the gauge.

I was hoping someone can look through these photos and help me figure out this out.


Thanks!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

Brain build MS3 bought from Dwink, hooked into factory wiring, with vacuum line.
<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

ecu spot isnt permanent, but I used some vacuum line to run it from the back of the passenger seat around the car lol.


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

it runs around my driver seat and out of the firewall


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

i tapped into the port that the instructions say to.


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

it fits decent for the time being
<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

wideband analog wire from the ecu


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

tracing the wideband analog wire


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

Male spade connector on the end of the LC-1 power wire.


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

unknown gauge wires, and power/ecu wires in through the firewall


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

vacuum and wires through same hole. you can see my grounds right below.


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

instructions said if not using the dimming feature of the gauge then to ground that wire to the same spot as other grounds, so you can see I grounded everything here.<br><br>&nbsp;https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

under the brake booster, the controller without the sensor hooked up, nice view of everything<br><br>&nbsp;https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

factory bung hole where I've remove the stock o2 sensor, cant put the wideband in until I get I know the gauge works.


<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

IAT wired into the 3&amp;4 spots in the MAF sensor, taped up for weather proofing.<br><br>&nbsp;https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

Someone said I could tap into this blue headlight wire for power for my wideband.
<br><br>https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

another person said to use this big blue wire on the left for the wideband power.<br><br>&nbsp;https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457979023

with everything hooked up and key switched to on, my radio comes on but the gauge doesn't light up and I'm expecting to see an error message at this point.

holy wiring mess. did you do all that yourself? or was some of that pre-existing? Im not trying to be rude but that is shit and wont cut it. The lc1 led coming on at all? have you confirmed your power and ground sources with a multimeter?

lol, the loom was totally butchered. I did my best to unwrap it and find out what was done.

All I'm trying to do right now is figure out if this thing works, if it does, I am going to redo the loom and all of the connections, and permanently install it.

I have a multimeter, however I have no clue what to test, or what to switch my multimeter to lol. I am an electronics noob.

I havent checked the LED I'll do that right now. EDIT** just checked, and dont see an LED


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457981279

I dont see an LED o nthe controller itself, and there is no LED wired into the loom


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457981279

I don't know what to switch this to, or where I'm supposed to put the prongs.

ok, so if you do not know how to use a multimeter, you might not want to do this without adult supervision. i would atleast get on youtube or something and search for any videos showing you how to operate the meter. you are wanting to measure DC voltage on the power wire to the LC-1. Then measure resistance to ground on your ground connections.

see the instructions at this link for the LC-1 install info and note where it discusses hooking in the LED. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf

Where are you located? You definitely need some on-hands help with that mess. You absolutely need to learn how to use a volt meter before you mess up any more of that wiring.

Yea lol hands on help would be nice. I'm in Tahoe California.

I did learn how to test grounds today, and check for continuity. Tomorrow in the light I'm going to try and test my grounds on the cable and go from there.

So, while I do not approve this wiring overall - I will say that if you are using the power windows for a 12v source, you will need to add a fuse into the fusebox that's in the drivers side. That said.. ugh man. Don't burn down your car.

Also be aware that position is accessory powered - so it will turn off while cranking and back on when running.

Using the same color wire for multiple circuits, will keep you in the dark. Forever.

Red wires leading to ground, is the holy grail of wrong. Black, black and white, are ground colors.

Go on ebay and buy some assorted color packs of 18-20g wire.

Buy a 40 dollar soldering iron, a sponge some Flux and silver solder, and some shrink tube.

Go on YouTube for some solder lessons. Your skills will be great in no time. I think.

I cringe every time i see someone install a WBo2 controller inside the engine bay and run wires through the firewall.


Who are these "people" that you are referring to for the worst wiring advice known to mankind?

not on a miata.

Right.

If 94's and 95's are the same, then it should be my cigar fuse for the power windows correct?

So the loom has the 6 colored wires that innovate says are there, the loom is wired correctly to an innovate gauge, all of the wires that you see coming out are either grounds or power or the 1 ECU analog wire.

The ecu wire is red as well, and I grounded the gauge's dimming feature power wire which is red.

It is crazy messy, but it's all there, I'm hoping it works.


None of this is permanent, like I said originally, all I am trying to do is find out if this wideband works.

Those "people" are users of this site. I found old posts of people discussing where they wired in the LC-1's power wire. After searching, I asked, because obviously, I didn't take their advice, and I went with the male spade connector to power window switch as there were more posts of people doing that with success.



I have been at work all day so I have still yet to test my grounds, but I'll be doing that tonight.

No. Power windows are their own 30a fuse.

And there's what works and what's right. Power window works, but it ain't right.

Any suggestions on where to get power instead of the power window connector?

in the past i have used the air bag power wire over near the steering column. That is on cars that i have changed the steering wheel and no longer use air bags. since the air bag power fuse is no longer supplying voltage to the module, i used it. Thats just a thought.

Fuse box. Tap-a-fuse.
Put it on a non-critical ignition switched fuse.

if you're going to use any power, i'd suggest a red/white one; the same the ECU uses.

i'll update this post with a better response.

I DO like the idea of adding a 5A fuse on the wideband power.

So I tested all of my grounds, and they all worked.
I had a buddy come over who knows more about the electrical stuff than I do. I tested power, and after all of our work, he seemed to think it was the gauge itself that was broken. Here are a few more pictures of my updated progress.


I also cut through the layer of dynamax protecting my A/C line firewall hole, and routed the ECU vacuum line correctly.


Once again, I'm just trying to test if this thing works, if it doesn't I'll buy a new one. If I need to route power differently, I will, or if i need the fuse to test for power to the gauge I will go put a fuse in.
Thanks for all the help so far guys.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458420471

I dont have a cover for my fuse box, my friend said I should be able to see power on the gauge without a fuse in here, is he wrong?


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458420471

with the key on.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458420471

this is the reading from the power wire on the connector to the back of the gauge.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458420471

I tested the red wire

So power isn't making it frome where you tap into it, to where it connects to the gauge?

When everything is hooked up, and I turn the key so that the accessories power on, the gauge itself does not light up.

I'm expecting it to light up and say "E2"

Yes, but is power actually getting to the gauge, with the key turned on?

I'd source power off the solid red wire on this harness. and I'd also source my ground there as well, using one of the pair of solid black wires that doubles on the very inside-end of the harness.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458424868

You can see in the picture where I took a reading of the voltage coming out of the power wire, that would go into the gauge. There is power present, however I don't think it's enough. If it is, then the gauge is broken.



I'm hesitant to tap into those ecu wires, but I trust your information, so I'll do that. What technique would you recommend to use in order to tap into those?

Would I do something like this?

That video shows just twisting the wires together, and he mentions just covering it in tape. I would not ever do that in a car for anything important, if you tug on it it can come apart pretty easily no matter how neatly it's twisted up.

I usually go with butt crimp connectors when doing stuff like this. With a connector of the right size you can fit two cables in one side and one in the other.

Soldering works, but it doesn't react to well to repeated temperature changes or stress (tugging cable or maybe severe vibration). It's also usually pretty tricky to do in a car wiring, as it's often cramped for space and easy to accidentally melt insulation on other wires or burn carpets or whatever.

that's actually a very good method if you dont want to cut and re-secure. But I'd also hit it with solder. But the problem is how it makes the orginal wire all funky for routing:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458516537

I do like the idea of basically cutting the wire, then using a butt-end crimp to put it back together with two wires going in on one side. Probably the easiest/quickest way to do it as well. I like the crimps with integrated heatshrink, but you need to make sure you get a really good crimp on these, you wouldn't want your power wire to fall out.


But just fwiw, that harness I'm suggesting he tap into is completely soldered together. it's inside the cabin and won't be subject to temp changes or stress.

So with that said, those wires are also really easy to desolder from the db37 cup so you can do the crimp like above, and then run the heatshrink down the existing wire. That way the orginal wire doesnt have to get all funky for a more clean install like such:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458516537


This thread and others like it have made me rework my wbo2 wiring for my ms3x harnesses to make it much much much easier.

So I could use the non cut method to see if the gauge works, and if it does, then follow your instructions for a permanent soldered install?

That would do. Just take care to not short anything with the exposed wires when testing it, electrical tape is your friend.
If you can unsolder/remove one end of the cable from the connector or just cut it at the splice in order to fit shrink tubing over it, that's what will probably look the neatest (crimp connectors do look a bit ugly in the eyes of some people). If you're soldering it, it won't matter too much to the end result if you cut the cable or just strip the insulation, what is easier depends a bit on how much room and slack you have. Though if you manage to get the insulation off neatly, it's probably easier to twist+solder the strands together if you don't have it cut (so you just have two cables instead of three).

Any of these methods (soldering, crimping, or just twisting wires and covering in tape and zipties) will work well if done properly, and can go bad if not. Go with whatever you feel comfortable with and have tools for, and if you're in any way unsure it's easy enough to practice on some spare bits of cable before going wild on your wiring loom.

electrical tape should be outlawed.

Recommending twisting wires together and taping them secure, is almost grounds for being banned. In the least it's going to awaken Quality Control Bot.

I am QBC, prince of Eternia and defender of the secrets of Castle MiataTurbo. This is Cringer, my fearless friend.

Fabulous secret powers were revealed to me the day I held aloft my magic banhammer and said, “By the power of MiataTurbo! I have the power!“

Cringer became the mighty Battle Cat, and I became He-Man, the most powerful man in the universe!

Only three others share this secret — our friends, the Sorceress, Man-at-Arms, and Orko. Together we defend Castle MiataTurbo from the evil forces of bad advice.

I'm in no way (now or earlier) recommending that as a long-term way of securing cables, but for temporarily testing if the gauge thing works, electrical tape is a good measure to make sure electrical shit doesn't touch other shit it shouldn't be touching.

Given the right kind of tape, the right circumstances when applying it and the right long-term luck, it can work, but way too often doesn't for it to be useful.

Looks like Brain has a case of premature eja......QCB. He didnt read all of your first post saying that it was a bad idea.

Also, as far as solder goes, the OP should only do it if they know how to properly solder. I have seen far too many bad solder jobs on wiring connections to ever recommend it to someone who doesnt know what they are doing.

If you do butt connectors, they need to be GOOD ones crimped with a proper tool. NOT like the one below.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458567607

I have one of those that I used for a while before I knew better. I still have it around to strip insulation (it does thick wire better than my regular one), but I have flattened the nose of it with a angle grinder to prevent accidental use...

I have one that looks like this, and it does a good job:
Attachment 165991

Provided you use the right size die for the connector (hint: match the colors), and the connector size matches the wire, it has always given me solid connections. Also very useful (almost necessary) if you're doing relays, fuses or switches with those flat terminals whose name in English I do not know.

Don't go too cheap on the crimp connectors though. Some have crappy brittle plastic that will break at the crimp, there are also those where the metal is too thin or fragile (low-grade chinesium) and just won't hold the cable properly. I've only gotten bad connectors in some cheap assortment gas-station kits with very many different kinds (which you would probably expect to see bundled with a really shitty crimp tool).

those will do it. I personally prefer un insulated crimps in conjuction with heat shrink. those tend to work the best and you arent dealing with shitty plastic on the connectors. If you go look at oem connections, they use bare crimps and heat shrink.

For my multiple connections, i generally use splice packs that i have collected over the years from trucks i have worked on. Thats usually how i feed power and ground up to the gauges so that i am not running multiple wires all over the place.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458570733

Theoretically, could I just pull this wiring mess out, and test this thing directly with my car's battery?

If not, then I'm going to splice into the ECU power and ground as Braineack kindly suggested.

My main issue, is that I don't want to harm wiring to find out that this wideband is trash, and purchase a new one where installation might be simpler, to be left with a new wideband, and an ugly wiring harness.

lol I hope that sentence made sense.

any way you go you will be wiring in power and ground to the wideband.

However, you could just go right to the battery for the power and ground to see if it will power up. i would use a little inline fuse just in case.

I know I'll be wiring in whatever wideband I choose, and doing it properly.

However, this entire adventure was meant to find out if this LC-1 worked lol. All of the info I have gotten has been a tremendous help, and will be used for my permanent install.

It seems that If I can just press all the wires on their respective battery terminals, and check to see if this works, that that would be a lot faster, and safer.

I'd really rather only have to splice into my wiring one time, for a permanent install.

Dude you have power coming into your wideband harness but you don't have power coming out at the other end. There's something wrong with that harness. The wideband harness.

yeah you can test that way, but where i've said to hook it up is the most ideal install.

Thank you.
I think it's best I drop the cash on a new wideband and save myself the hassle.

Definitely. I hear you, and I'll be following your advice for the final install. I appreciate all the detailed help you've given me!



I'll be using this thread for reference. Anyone have any suggestions between the MTX-L and AEM UEGO?

i have used the MTX-L without problems. I just installed one in my personal car.

Look it up on jet.com , i got mine from there. It was listed for 150 and you get 15% your first purchase. it was about 126 shipped.

You're the man Jesse! Thanks.


I just ordered it from jet. $125.25 after shipping. I'll update this thread after I get this one installed.

did you not just see my recent comparison post?

https://www.miataturbo.net/ecus-tuni...3/#post1316439

I hadn't but I went with the MTX-L.

I have everything hooked up and calibrated, the MTX is functioning perfect, and I spliced into the wires that you showed me braineack.

Quick question, when I hook up the usb cable from the MS3 to my laptop, and click create new project in tuner studio, it can't detect the ECU firmware. I had the key in the accessories on position, should it be different?

Should I be using a serial cable? or manually programming this?


The guy I bought the ECU from said he loaded a stock tune on the ECU, but added in the lc-1 wideband. When I tried turning on the car, it turns on but won't stay on. Any thoughts on how I can get into the actual tuning of this thing?

so the car cranks, combusts and starts, but it wont maintain idle and dies immediately?

Correct.

does your laptop have the right drivers loaded?

installed the drivers right now, and reading through the manuals on DIYAutoTune.

After installing the drivers, tuner studio read the firmware just fine. Now I just need to figure out how to get the car to stay on lol.

I'm as far as setting it up with a wideband, and now I am on the dashboard.
I downloaded the basemap from https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...5-mazda-miata/, I do have the IAT though, and have removed the MAF. I tried to load the base tune, but I keep getting a message that signatures don't match.

screenshot of the message you are getting? it may be nothing to worry about

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459894090
After I load it anyway it says I have 95 warnings.

Do I just have the warning because I haven't set anything up in tunerstudio, or should I be using a different base tune?

Brain is the expert on this matter but from what i understand those warnings are fine and not a problem.

Alright I'm off today, I'm gonna try the ms3 pro base tune, and ignore the warning and set it up according to the DIYAutoTune instructions.

I'll report back If I run into any problems.

youll get a ton of errors between a MS3-Pro and MS3x tune. All the names of the inputs/outputs are different.

Should I use a different basetune or will I be fine to ignore them?

you should be fine, but id go through all major settings and make sure they match up, especially all the inputs and outputs.

So I took my timing light down to the car, hooked it up and let it sit there. Plugged in my laptop, and burned the stock MS3Pro tune from MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com I ignored the warnings and followed what little setup instructions I could find.

I unlocked my tables, and then setup my thermistor table for the GM AIT.
I then went to my ignition timing and set fixed advance to fixed timing and made sure it was at 10. I burned it to the controller.

Now my car does nothing when the key is on and I press the the push button start. All of my accessories are on though so I know my battery isn't dead lol. What settings do I need to check?

Is there a good write-up for this that I just can't seem to find?

Even when I try other maps, nothing happens when I push my engine start button. Before I accepted this tune, my car would crank, but die, i feel like I'm going backwards lol.

why dont you just ask me for a basemap specific for the unit i built?

I personally would have kept the loaded tune and just made sure all the setting made sense for your install.

You know that's a great idea. I just wanted to gain the knowledge myself as much as I could. This forum is a great help I just want to be able to ask intelligent questions.

I did get my car to start, but it's running only slightly better. I ran a data log, but I'd rather use a tune that you know works.

So if you have one, I'd love one lol.