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How to Turbocharge your NA for 2k, build with TONNES of pics and info.
6 Attachment(s)
Gday,
So I opened my mouth on the Aus forum and said I would turbo someones NA for 2k, just so they didnt buy ITBs. So here we are. This is for everyone who is wondering, and all of the blokes who swear black and blue its impossible. This is for everyone who says you cannot do it 'right' for under 5000 etc etc :mrgreen: In this thread I will go through all the steps to build a basic, Greddy style system, done properly, with no corners cut for a big improvement in power and much more torque. It will be updated as the progress happens. This car is 100% stock except a 2" exhaust and intake, the only part that will remain is the catback, this setup would work on a stock exhaust, but we have the 2" so we will use it. It will use a Log manifold for reliability, spool, its small size and price. It will use a Garrett T02, which owes me about 80 dollars, and has a brand new never used CHRA (Centre housing, rotating assembly) so its vital moving parts are brand spankers. A used T25 or t28 or TD04 from a wrx could be used, all of these are available used for a couple of hundred dollars in good nick from ebay and the forums. It will use good quality oil feed and return, and a 2.5" downpipe that will bolt to a stock exhaust, although this car has a 2" straight through SS system already. It will not have an intercooler or blow off valve, and as a result boost will be kept sensible, and expect a little turbo flutter (also known as 'dose') on throttle lift off. Top these basic reliable parts off with a brand new MegaSquirt Plug and Play 2 and you have a very quick, completely lag free daily, thats quiet, great value, OEM reliable and can be reverted to stock in an hour. Upgrade path is intercooler, injectors, clutch, T25 or T28, and 3" exhaust, all the way up to 300whp. Lets get into it. Here is the engine bay, the car already has a Works Engineering universal intake system and a nice stainless crossover pipe, and a full 2" mandrel SS exhaust and Wozzahs excellent headers. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 This is an SE stock turbo, the Garrett T02 being used, and a Garrett GT2560r (AKA T28, stock SP, japspec S14 and all S15 turbo). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 Remove the intake. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 Remove the headers, These are from Warren Heath Performance (username on Auscartalk Wozzah1975), these are about a year old, and still look great, in coated mild steel these wont crack like stainless headers are so well known for, and fit perfectly every time, they also work great through the mid range and top end with stock or near stock cams. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 Here is the first little bit of money saving, this is a stock header exhaust flange, cut from an OEM na6 header and cleaned up, given a coat of paint a year ago to protect it. This saves over $100, its not bling bling but thats not the point here. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470190 Dann |
1 Attachment(s)
Don't forget to head over to DIYautotune and order your megasquirt.
This is a full standalone ECU, out of the box it will plug straight in where the stock ecu was and run a stock car, however it will need tuning to get the most from it on a stock car and should at least do a run or 2 on a dyno with a wideband to ensure the tune is safe. In this case we also ordered the AIT (Air Intake temperature) sensor, so we can delete the stock air flow meter. A good ecu is the difference between a car that is 100% bulletproof reliable, or not. Its the difference between getting stock economy, or not. Its the difference between great driveability or a lumpy flatspot filled experience (just ask the intake/exhaust/boost stock ecu MSM owners) Its the difference between having a future upgrade path and proper tyre shredding torque, or not. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374470395 This will allow us to get away with no intercooler for now, and still make good power safely, using bandaids alone you are stuck with a very weak, very poor very low boost tune, this is why the greddy system uses 4psi only. Once this gets on the dyno we will know, it may well be happy to run 10psi, with a very conservative tune, despite not having an intercooler. Without a good tuneable ecu you are stuck with bandaids like rising rate fuel pressure regs, running super low boost for safety, and a car that drives rubbish. Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1034984)
Gday,
So I opened my mouth on the Aus forum and said I would turbo someones NA for 2k, just so they didnt buy ITBs. So here we are. This is for everyone who is wondering, and all of the blokes who swear black and blue its impossible. This is for everyone who says you cannot do it 'right' for under 5000 etc etc :mrgreen: In this thread I will go through all the steps to build a basic, Greddy style system, done properly, with no corners cut for a big improvement in power and much more torque. It will be updated as the progress happens. This car is 100% stock except a 2" exhaust and intake, the only part that will remain is the catback, this setup would work on a stock exhaust, but we have the 2" so we will use it. It will use a Log manifold for reliability, spool, its small size and price. It will use a Garrett T02, which owes me about 80 dollars, and has a brand new never used CHRA (Centre housing, rotating assembly) so its vital moving parts are brand spankers. A used T25 or t28 or TD04 from a wrx could be used, all of these are available used for a couple of hundred dollars in good nick from ebay and the forums. It will use good quality oil feed and return, and a 2.5" downpipe that will bolt to a stock exhaust, although this car has a 2" straight through SS system already. It will not have an intercooler or blow off valve, and as a result boost will be kept sensible, and expect a little turbo flutter (also known as 'dose') on throttle lift off. Top these basic reliable parts off with a brand new MegaSquirt Plug and Play 2 and you have a very quick, completely lag free daily, thats quiet, great value, OEM reliable and can be reverted to stock in an hour. Upgrade path is intercooler, injectors, clutch, T25 or T28, and 3" exhaust, all the way up to 300whp. Lets get into it. Dann
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1034985)
Don't forget to head over to DIYautotune and order your megasquirt.
This is a full standalone ECU, out of the box it will plug straight in where the stock ecu was and run a stock car, however it will need tuning to get the most from it on a stock car and should at least do a run or 2 on a dyno with a wideband to ensure the tune is safe. In this case we also ordered the AIT (Air Intake temperature) sensor, so we can delete the stock air flow meter. A good ecu is the difference between a car that is 100% bulletproof reliable, or not. Its the difference between getting stock economy, or not. Its the difference between great driveability or a lumpy flatspot filled experience (just ask the intake/exhaust/boost stock ecu MSM owners) Its the difference between having a future upgrade path and proper tyre shredding torque, or not. [IMG]https://www.miataturbo.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=83208&dateline=1374470 395[IMG] This will allow us to get away with no intercooler for now, and still make good power safely, using bandaids alone you are stuck with a very weak, very poor very low boost tune, this is why the greddy system uses 4psi only. Once this gets on the dyno we will know, it may well be happy to run 10psi, with a very conservative tune, despite not having an intercooler. Without a good tuneable ecu you are stuck with bandaids like rising rate fuel pressure regs, running super low boost for safety, and a car that drives rubbish. Dann you state PROPERLY TURBO THIS CAR FOR 2K you make it sound like you're about to actually do that then you state that it won't be running like 50% of the parts to properly turbo a car, but rather the most bare bones of basic "starter" systems and be upgraded from there, after you've completed your "mission". Am I understanding that correctly? If not, please do explain. So the bottom line is: I applaud you for taking on this task, and attempting to do this on a budget without bandaids, but for the love of turbo miatas would you please stop making it sound like you're about to do something impossible? No one ever said you can't piece together a basic barebones system for under 5k. This kinda sounds like your claims to achieve the impossible: "FIT A BW EFR TO A MIATA USING A BOTTOM MOUNT MANIFOLD" -except neglecting to tell people you're doing it on a right hand drive car and don't have the main obstacle, the steering shaft, in the way. ****EDIT: and before you start crying and call me a hater, here is my FIRST build thread from beginning of 2009, where I did what you did but for 2500, except I didn't leave anything out: full exhaust, fmic, injectors, bov, ems, etc etc etc. a whole PROPER turbo setup: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...finally-31240/ |
Please note 18.
Im in Australia, not only is our market COMPLETELY different and having only 4000 NAs in total is much must smaller with much much less competition, our dollar is worth a fair bit less, and our parts have to get shipped to the other side of the planet first. Also, cut and paste from the Aus forum, so some bits wont be applicable (Ive proof read it to swap the name of the Mazdaspeed Miata for example, but not all will be 100% relevant in your country). its been said many times you cannot possibly turbocharge an NA in a correct reliable way for anywhere near this price in Australia. Well Im just showing that it can be and exactly how its done. For the record, its basically complete however Ive lost a post and am waiting for that to come back, then Ill post another 10 updates across. Dann |
Here is my answer to that question from over there also regarding what to consider a 'proper' job.
Originally Posted by nitrodann
Many factory turbo cars do not come with BOVs, the CA18DETs didnt, RB30ETs didnt, the monster homologation FJ20 never had one and the car from which this turbo comes from, the ET pulsar, never had one.
For interest sakes for those playing at home, a full SS piping setup with a 300whp capable front mount with everything you need, is 500 dollars for an MX5, if you supply a BOV (Im only going to order it online like you so you might as well cut out the middle man) ill fit it in any configuration for no extra cost. So add that to it. But that Isnt the point, you can add 100 things to the 'do it right list' that simply aren't needed for a reliable bump in power of 40-50%. You could add that it needs a BOV, the car with this turbo from factory never had one. (ET pulsar) You could say it needs an intercooler, again, nissan didnt think so for the ET pulsar. You could say it has to have an exhaust bigger than stock, again Nissan Disagreed. And the stock na6 clutch if in good nick will cope just fine. Anyways, everyone hold their horses Ill put more photos up as the day goes on. Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1035042)
Please note 18.
Im in Australia, not only is our market COMPLETELY different and having only 4000 NAs in total is much must smaller with much much less competition, our dollar is worth a fair bit less, and our parts have to get shipped to the other side of the planet first. Also, cut and paste from the Aus forum, so some bits wont be applicable (Ive proof read it to swap the name of the Mazdaspeed Miata for example, but not all will be 100% relevant in your country). its been said many times you cannot possibly turbocharge an NA in a correct reliable way for anywhere near this price in Australia. Well Im just showing that it can be and exactly how its done. For the record, its basically complete however Ive lost a post and am waiting for that to come back, then Ill post another 10 updates across. Dann IT CAN'T BE DONE IN AUSTRALIA Got it. Okay, I'll give you that. I have no idea what its like over there, so carry on.
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1035044)
Here is my answer to that question from over there also regarding what to consider a 'proper' job.
Dann Just remember: you said yourself " PROPERLY TURBO". Then you go and justify every single statement that literally contradicts your original one. Confused? |
Charge cooling and BOV wont be needed at the small hp and very low boost this setup will run, like you say, around 5psi.
Dann |
Good, I already know this is possible if you can weld, and you're saving even more money than be because I was factoring buying the flanges.
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1035028)
This kinda sounds like your claims to achieve the impossible: "FIT A BW EFR TO A MIATA USING A BOTTOM MOUNT MANIFOLD"
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thats still kindof alot of heat... and when that TB closes, thats 5psi backpressure against the turbo, which may seem miniscule, but still long term damaging
i mean, i see what you are getting at, but i dont see this being an efficient reliable LONG TERM thing, might run into problems a little down the road. what i DO see, is this being a possibility WITH all the necessary parts (ie:bov, intercooler, piping) if you can source the parts cheap, and do a diypnp for $400 or so $400 diypnp $100 for injectors (whatever size you decide necessary) $100 for decent condition TD04 (or equivalent, assuming one can be sourced) $100 for decent BOV $200 for good intercooler AND piping (only thing besides the turbo itself that i would source from EBAY) with some welding skills/experience $200 or so in materials (flanges, piping (maybe cheaper, depending on sourcing and connections)) +time to piece together and weld. We are at $1100 now, with some decent condition sourced parts. $1400 if you decide to buy an already built MS. also, ASSUMING you had Fabrication skills and necessary equipment, a downpipe can be made within $200 easily leaving $400 to play with, that can be used towards a Better turbo option, or whatever you choose. this is ALL assuming you can source those particular parts within those price ranges (usually can be done) and again, that you have the time, fabrication skills, and equipment to do it all yourself. May be used stuff, and by all means NOT necessarily ARTECH quality or whatever... but all of this seems like a better option than running a NON cooled charge, with no relief of backpressure from the turbo. by far NOT the best setup possible, but still reliable with NO bandaids, and just as, if not MORE efficient, than the 2k setup without intercooling or bov As i said, this is all being extremely budget concious, and having access to the fab required to pull it off. I by no means claim to know everything about turbos or miatas, but i can definitely see all of this as an option. And i realize that this may not ALL be attainable QUICKLY, but just since February, ive seen these parts for THESE prices here in the FS section of just Miataturbo. so, may take time, but if you are patient, you can source it all, and do it just as i listed. AGAIN... its alot of assuming..... but definitely possible |
Call Garrett, 5psi is fine with no BOV on their smaller turbos. It might increase wear on the thrust bearing a little so the turbo might only last for 80k miles before it needs to be rebuilt rather than 100k. The forces wont be high enough to damage the fins.
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I think his main thing is baing in AU and apparently they can't source parts as cheap as we can here in the USA.
Apparently. But even with that obstacle, you just can't say you're PROPERLY turbocharging anything and then brush off like half the parts as "unneeded". That's just ignorant. And no clutch? really? At this rate you can buy a used greddy kit at like 800-900, add a mspnp and cross over tube and be done with like $1600 spent.
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1035087)
Call Garrett, 5psi is fine with no BOV on their smaller turbos. It might increase wear on the thrust bearing a little so the turbo might only last for 80k miles before it needs to be rebuilt rather than 100k. The forces wont be high enough to damage the fins.
so it will be reliable. it won't be reliable but it will be reliable. it might put wear and tear on the turbo and possibly the throttle body leading to premature failure, but it will be reliable. just not reliable. HERP DERP |
You could get a brand new or slightly used Bosch BOV from an Audi,Snaab, Volvo or VW or something for like 30 bux or less. It works good till like 14psi or so.
|
Guys I'm gonna swap in a v8.
THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE!! So here's a v6 swap with 1 engine mount and 4 of its cylinders work. That's right. I did it. Worship me. |
The setup has a BOV fitting welded to the crossover, Add 20 bucks for a Bosch bov and quit whining 18, when I get another 50 photos up with instructions on the fitment, checking the turbo, porting the wastegate, and how to fabricate the parts, you will understand the point is instructions and showing what can be done on a budget, first time, no chasing used parts and guessing etc, NOT to argue with you about every minute detail regarding what I can buy if I live in the states from the forum if I wait a year, we all know what can be found in the classifieds.
Let the thread just continue man. Dann |
Alright, carry on.
I'm just bothered by your statement of: "they said it couldn't be done", when you're clearly "not doing it". |
Originally Posted by supercooper
(Post 1035084)
thats still kindof alot of heat... and when that TB closes, thats 5psi backpressure against the turbo, which may seem miniscule, but still long term damaging
i mean, i see what you are getting at, but i dont see this being an efficient reliable LONG TERM thing, might run into problems a little down the road. what i DO see, is this being a possibility WITH all the necessary parts (ie:bov, intercooler, piping) if you can source the parts cheap, and do a diypnp for $400 or so $400 diypnp $100 for injectors (whatever size you decide necessary) $100 for decent condition TD04 (or equivalent, assuming one can be sourced) $100 for decent BOV $200 for good intercooler AND piping (only thing besides the turbo itself that i would source from EBAY) with some welding skills/experience $200 or so in materials (flanges, piping (maybe cheaper, depending on sourcing and connections)) +time to piece together and weld. We are at $1100 now, with some decent condition sourced parts. $1400 if you decide to buy an already built MS. also, ASSUMING you had Fabrication skills and necessary equipment, a downpipe can be made within $200 easily leaving $400 to play with, that can be used towards a Better turbo option, or whatever you choose. this is ALL assuming you can source those particular parts within those price ranges (usually can be done) and again, that you have the time, fabrication skills, and equipment to do it all yourself. May be used stuff, and by all means NOT necessarily ARTECH quality or whatever... but all of this seems like a better option than running a NON cooled charge, with no relief of backpressure from the turbo. by far NOT the best setup possible, but still reliable with NO bandaids, and just as, if not MORE efficient, than the 2k setup without intercooling or bov As i said, this is all being extremely budget concious, and having access to the fab required to pull it off. I by no means claim to know everything about turbos or miatas, but i can definitely see all of this as an option. And i realize that this may not ALL be attainable QUICKLY, but just since February, ive seen these parts for THESE prices here in the FS section of just Miataturbo. so, may take time, but if you are patient, you can source it all, and do it just as i listed. AGAIN... its alot of assuming..... but definitely possible |
Originally Posted by cowboys647
(Post 1035101)
Don't forget the wideband!
OK..... so, add $200 for a good wideband, and get a BETTER turbo for about $300 brand new, and BOOM!!! a $2k setup, give or take a few bucks here and there for shipping. lol |
This is totally doable... My setup is as follows:
Used Greddy Kit with TurboTony Downpipe $500 3" custom Catback with Magnaflow muffler (DP6061 style) $200 DIYPnP $350 RX8 injectors $60 TurboXS RFL Bov $25 ABD Front mount for MK4 VW 1.8t $100 IC Piping $150 FlyinMiata Stage 1 clutch $350 PLX Wideband $100 I'm at $1835 for my setup... Add $100 for miscellaneous vacuum lines, fittings, etc and I'm under $2k. |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1034984)
Remove the headers, These are from Warren Heath Performance (username on Auscartalk Wozzah1975),
Enough with the mini rant, thank you for taking the time to post this. However, I would make this is build thread rather than a "how to" since many people will disagree with your choices and there is a million ways to build a turbo system with none being the absolute correct way. My suggestion for a $2k range build, Begi-s kit, with a used sr20 t25 and megasquirt with wideband. With the price Begi takes off for the turbo and FPR it should put you right around that price for a non-intercooled reliable 6psi system. or the more fun method of trolling the FS section for good deals for a year to piece together a kit. Mine will be about $1200 with BEGI mani/DP, MS, injectors, intercooler and gt2560 when done (i hope...) :dealwithit: |
Originally Posted by nperkins
(Post 1035114)
This is totally doable... My setup is as follows:
Used Greddy Kit with TurboTony Downpipe $500 3" custom Catback with Magnaflow muffler (DP6061 style) $200 DIYPnP $350 RX8 injectors $60 TurboXS RFL Bov $25 ABD Front mount for MK4 VW 1.8t $100 IC Piping $150 FlyinMiata Stage 1 clutch $350 PLX Wideband $100 I'm at $1835 for my setup... Add $100 for miscellaneous vacuum lines, fittings, etc and I'm under $2k. |
I'm using the $25 Bosch BOV and $75 RX7 injectors.
Don't run 10psi without adding a $100 chinese intercooler. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1035183)
I'm using the $25 Bosch BOV and $75 RX7 injectors.
Don't run 10psi without adding a $100 chinese intercooler. I thought that them having Skylines and sr20 Silvia's overthere would make for a cheaper trubo aftermarket. |
I see where Dan's coming from. I can appreciate him showing people how to make a reasonable setup that is affordable.
Only beef I really have with you Dan is your dramatic statements. I think you are a skilled mechanic. You just come off overly arrogant. interested enough to swing back by for final product. with pictures of course. w/ upside down dyno. |
How to turbo your car for under $2000: Buy a Begi Shanghai kit, use the leftover for a clutch.
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1 Attachment(s)
Let me put this into perspective for everyone.
The 22" magnaflow everyone runs is over 400 dollars here. Cleaning for a set of 4 used injectors is over 100. Ms PNP costs 1000 landed. I could post some of the repkies in australia but basically half a dozen people had already called bullshit on the price being possible first page. My wording isnt dramatic over here and the thread is a direct cut and paste. Im still waiting to recover post number 3 then i can put half a dozen more up with it. EDIT: Here is an example from one of Australias leading mx5 specialists websites, showing current turbo kit prices. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374627937 |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1035398)
Let me put this into perspective for everyone.
The 22" magnaflow everyone runs is over 400 dollars here. Cleaning for a set of 4 used injectors is over 100. Ms PNP costs 1000 landed. I could post some of the repkies in australia but basically half a dozen people had already called bullshit on the price being possible first page. My wording isnt dramatic over here and the thread is a direct cut and paste. Im still waiting to recover post number 3 then i can put half a dozen more up with it. double win... |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1035398)
Let me put this into perspective for everyone.
I could post some of the repkies in australia but basically half a dozen people had already called bullshit on the price being possible first page. so the bullshit is all relative. Hell I turboed my car for $1200 initially... |
You miss the fucking point.
Forget it, wait till i get this post back and Ill post heaps. Dann |
How to turbo miata for $2000 in Australia:
1. Move to 'Merica :winner: /thread But really, those prices do suck. Good luck with the build. |
4 Attachment(s)
Here is the steampipe being used for this basic log manifold.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591749 Pull some steampipe up to the press, or alternatively use a hammer on a vice. We are going to crush the entries flatter to match the manifold ports. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591749 This is how its held in the vice. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591749 Now the steampipe matches the ports in the flange and head. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591749 Dann |
3 Attachment(s)
Ok, so next we need to cut and clean the steampipe, it needs to be be cut down in horizontal length to that in total the bend-T-T-bend combination fits the port holes.
I used the grinder you can see in the photos to cut and a wire brush to clean them. Small gap for weld penetration. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591769 Now they fit the ports. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591769 Cleaned with wire brush so they weld nicely. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591769 Dann |
7 Attachment(s)
Next we line them up and tack them together on top.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Flip it, lay the flange over and see if the ports line up, in this case I tapped the far left one with a hammer a little inwards and up. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Tack the bottom. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Clean the flange on the wled side and tack it on. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Double check th eports line up nicely, remember this will be hand ported later. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Check it on the car, awesome, heaps of space to work with. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Keep in mind future turbo upgrade size, and choose a location for the turbo, in this case Im going with side mount as discussed with the owner, it keeps it easy to work on, can be covered with a heatshield, and allows a lot of room for a T28 later. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591819 Dont just consider these questions regarding the current turbo, but for other bolt on upgrades, in this case the T25 and t28 were considered. Dann |
3 Attachment(s)
Clean your material where the welds will go with a solvent.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591836 Tack the flange to something solid or bolt it down or clamp it to a bench etc to stop it warping during welding. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591836 Lay some beads. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591836 Dann |
2 Attachment(s)
Weld..
Weld some more. Take off your shirt and get a welding suntan (NB: Joke..) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591855 Now let it cool down at its own pace to prevent warping the flange, this may take 1, 2 or even 3 beers. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591855 Dann |
6 Attachment(s)
Ok so next step is cut out a section of log with a grinder for the flange.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 Doble check it sits right with the turbo flange tacked on. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 Do some more welds, sorry for blurriness. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 Test fit, this is make or break, if it doesnt look tough enough now its too late :P https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 Grab your whiteboard and brainstorm what else needs to be done, and what you need to have on hand for the next steps. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 Go back and have another look :) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591889 So at this point I can start the intercooler piping, or in this case, the crossover pipe. I want to clock the turbo, which means rotate the front and rear housing to get the oil drain facing down and get the turbo intercooler outlet where I want it. So for now I will start on the downpipe and start the intercooler piping from the throttle body and leave the last bit for when the turbo is clocked correctly into place. Dann |
2 Attachment(s)
So starting at the throttle body, Im going to have the traditional 2.5" vertical straight down pipe, Ill then go down to 2" and across the bay, this way if an intercooler is added later, this piece of the puzzle has already been made and ready, complete with BOV fitting (although blocked) and ICV fitting.
A BOV can be fitted at any time in about 10 minutes and it saves remaking the this section. This costs the same in material as doing it the easy way, but builds an upgrade path into this side of the system. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591910 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591910 Dann |
3 Attachment(s)
Clocking the turbo to get a nice piping path is next.
Take your circlip pliers and remove this circlip on the front housing, T25/28 have 6 bolts instead of the circlip. It may be rusted on quite hard so you might need a bit of wd40 overnight to get it free. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591926 This is the turbo with the front housing removed. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591926 This pic illustrates the variety of mounting option you have, the outlet can spin all the way around. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591926 Dann |
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And with the rear circlip removed we can remove the Centre Housing Rotating Assembly (CHRA).
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591951 Now the centre housing can be reinstalled with the oil feed on top and the drain facing down as pictured. Dann |
4 Attachment(s)
So the downpipe flange isnt QUITE what the flange for a T25/28 is, so Im going to make one.
Mount in vice. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591971 Cardboard and a hammer, gently tap on the studs to cut through. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591971 Stud pattern. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591971 Transfer through to your steel plate with spray paint. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374591971 Dann |
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Not much done today, Drilled the earlier marked holes.
About half an hour with a round file to get the holes spot on and nicely fitting. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592037 This is the exhaust side of the turbo, shown open is the wastegate port, the flapper door is the wastegate flapper and opens to allow exhaust gases to bypass the exhaust wheel shown at the bottom, with less gases the wheels spin less and the turbo produces less boost, this is how boost control works with an internal wastegate like this. I ported the opening a little larger, being careful to leave at least 1mm sealing surface (ie the hole is 2mm smaller than the flapper is.) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592037 On the inside I ported the entry to the wastegate hole. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592037 So next we will mark the shape of the flange and the cut it out. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592037 The reason Ive ported this wastegate is because the turbo is quite small, even for a 1.6L, the wastegate might have trouble flowing enough gas to bypass the turbine wheel enough for good boost control and as a result boost may rise with rpm as the wastegate has a harder and harder time bypassing gas for boost control. This is just a bit of extra just in case kind of work. Dann |
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So continuing with this flange..
Trace a rough stencil. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Double check you have a hole saw that matches the turbo. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Connect the edges with straight lines, this will be cut with an angle grinder. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Looking ok. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Tidied up with sandpaper. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Now it looks alright. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Tonnes of spraypaint, note that I took the turbine housing off to do this. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Now we have a flange shape, we can holesaw the centre out and build a downpipe. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592062 Dann |
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Holesaw your holes.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 Angle grind the centre out. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 Tidy with the die grinder https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592085 Been flat out on the phone and stuff today, Ill get some good updates tonight. Dann |
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So a box of bits arrived this arvo 8)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 So Ive tacked the turbo to the manifold, for some test fitting and the downpipe build. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 The vice will be used like this to shape the pipe initially. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 This little guy is the water return for the in cabin heater, it always gets in the road of a good downpipe. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 But with some gentle persuasion, it easily bends away for a little more clearance, this is standard practice on turbo NAs. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 I dont suggest consulting the warranty handbook for the vice before doing this, it wont help :P https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 I know its ugly now but let me weld it and tidy it and away we go :) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592108 Dann |
this thread got better; thank you.
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I have boxes of flanges but this one is a fraction different than a 25/28 one... Such is life.
And Ive been doing this too long to make mistakes like this :lol: Ah well, whats half an hour out of my life? :P https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592170 Dann |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1035658)
this thread got better; thank you.
Dann |
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]Big update time.
Tacked a couple of bends to the downpipe, this routing gives a LOT of clearance for working on the car. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Here is a reducer cut in 2, this was 3>2. Now its a 3>2.5 and a 2.5>2. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 This demonstrates how it will work to bolt this to a stock 1.75" system, this car has a 2". https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Nice flow. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Performance is all about the details, the die grinder is used a LOT when doing custom piping. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 From top to bottom, 2" flange, 2>2.5" 316SS reducer, 2.5" SS straight, 2.5x6" SS flex pipe-double braid for flow. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Tacked to the rest of the downpipe. This took 2 goes to get the flanges lining up to the millimetre. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Nice straight path. Installed, tucked up nice and high, 100% above the frame rails. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Getting started on the crossover pipe. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Path. Nice and short. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Throttle body side started. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 How it all sits on the car, needs another 2.5>2" reducer and AIT bung for the MegaSquirt ecu, and the tube for the Idle Air Control (IAC valve). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592248 Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1035662)
yeah I told everyone to shut up, wait, and appreciate the thread for what it is.
Dann |
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Blurriest photo ever as it turns out.
Dont worry theres a nice weld under there :P https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592357 This is the Idle Air Control port. Dann |
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Heres where we are up to, need an oil feed line, air filter, finish the pulse welds, drill the sump, bolt it together and clip the megasquirt in and tune 8)
This update is very pic heavy and helps explain SpeedFlow type fittings and their assembly. This flange, for some reason out of like 10 I purchased didnt come tapped, so a trip to the bolt shop and 20 bucks later its tapped. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Use a square and eyeball the tap is vertical. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 So here is the oil feed line, on a garrett this is a gas fitting, Ill feed this with a hardline from the head, any brake and clutch shop can make you this hardline for 30 bucks. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 This is the oil return, much larger. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 This particular turbo has an incredibly unusual fitting, Totally unavailable from SpeedFlow, 13 bucks later after a trip to an industrial hose shop I got a 22mmx1.5mm internal flare to -10JIC fitting, now back to the hotrod shop for a Speedflow adaptor and hosetail. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 So with liquid threadtape, it gets screwed in. Use a spanner for final assembly. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Then the JIC to -10 adaptor. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Then the -8 hose tail. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 The hose gets pushed down hard like this to fit it on the barb. These barbs are high pressure and dont require a clamp, but I'm using one anyway. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Cut a clean straight end from the hose, in this case we are using -10 heat resistant fire retardant efi capable hose. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Then into boiling water it goes to soften it. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Some lubricant, use soap because it will dry up, unlike oil. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 This collar must be on this direction before fitting the hose, this makes it look nice and tidy, THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Push down HARD. In ONE motion. There are no second chances these barbs do not let go. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 And a hose clamp because insurance is always recommended. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592404 Not long now! Dann |
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Alright, here we go, the most fun part (not even slightly, and they dont get any better).
Drilling the sump and tapping it. And the first few are of my porting the manifold. Here is the unported manifold. Horrible photo sorry. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Half ported. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Inlet ports getting done next. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Crossover pipe welded. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Downpipe welded. It has a double braid flex pipe for reliability. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Drill a pilot hole for the oil return. This location is NOT the tradition (ie miataturbo wiki) location, the miataturbo location is suggested because its hard to hit the oil pickup pipe and puncture it from that location, Here im just using experience and care to ensure it doesnt happen, we will look and test for it later. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Hole has been drilled with a bit usually used to countersink screw heads, its called a countersinking bit. It eats the alloy like its nothing. You can see inside the hole the oil pickup running horizontally, its close here but Im being SUPER careful with depth. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 This is a 3/8 BSP tap and hand tapping piece, Ill be tapping with a ratchet not the hand tap (the 2 black bits, make a 'T'). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 ALWAYS check the threads are the same by holding them in each other, this trick works for all bolts, you will know if its not right the threads simply wont seat. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Lets tap. Again being very careful to mark and check the depth. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 Awesome, we have return. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 After flushing the sump with degreaser this came out, its very important to flush the sump after tapping. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592442 So after I had done this I unclipped the injectors and ignition harness and hooked up a battery charger. I crank it and check that it makes oil pressure just off the key. It gets to 2 on the guage, this confirms the visual inspection that the oil pickup is not damaged. if you cut a hole in it the oil pump will suck air and you will not have pressure, this is why it must be tested with the starter motor. Now Ill clean up the flange faces, add gasket maker, and bolt it together, with sealant on all of the threads. I must add an oil feed, and clip in the megasquirt, and put my wideband on for a tune, then we go for a slow safe tune, making sure the mixture is very rich and taking it very easy on ignition timing, and see how the car goes. Then its off to its owner over the weekend and he can enjoy it for a little while while he waits in line for a quick dyno touch up. Dann |
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So this came in the mail, one from Gosford and one from the States.
This is 1000 bucks all up, the new Megasquirt PnP 2 for na6, an IAT bung and sensor, the cables and software, and the unifilter, which is much larger than I expected.. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374592468 Dann |
AND THATS WHERE I AM UP TO IN THE OTHER THREAD.
The next updates will be live. Dann |
Dude, you are aware that -10 JIC is the same as -10AN you have a superfluous adapter. Shit I'm surprised they even sell a JIC to AN adapter.
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Fittings confuse me, metric to imperial and back again is a real headfuck for me, especially with AN and JIC and adaptors with codenames you have to remember, but Im certain that the adaptor is necessary.
Dan |
Trust me. If that is an M22 to -10 JIC adapter, you can screw your -10AN push to connect fitting right on it.
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Yeah but I dont think it has -10 hose, it has -8 hose, so it has the adaptor first.
I just gave the fitting I got, and the hose I needed to the hotrod shop and purchased the SpeedFlow fittings. Dann |
the difference between AN And JC is trivial, it's just the degree angle of the "flange".
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1035687)
the difference between AN And JC is trivial, it's just the degree angle of the "flange".
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