I'm embarrassed, but here I go...
 

Hi All!

I'm brand new to the forum. I'm slightly embarrassed because I'm not a mechanic and I don't understand all the tech terms. I can see right away that there are some very knowledgeable individuals on this forum.

Here is my situation:

1) I have a very nice 99 in great condition. I've owned it for about 7 years and it currently has only 55k on it. I have made no modifications to it (it has a normal stock exhaust). Recently I test drove a VW Golf turbo and loved the feel and acceleration. So I am considering a turbo kit for the Miata.

2) My background - As I've said, I'm not a mechanic. I've done brakes, speedo cables, thermostat and hose replacements, heater core, etc., but nothing too major. I mention all of this because I honestly do not know if I should attempt to do the turbo kit myself or take it to my mechanic (who is very good!). So my first question to you is whether installing a turbo kit is something that an amateur mechanic can take on, or should it be done by a professional mechanic to make sure that it's done right? How many hours would it probably take for a mechanic to do it (I'm trying to factor in the labor costs) vs. me trying to do it?

3. My next question is what kind of kit should I get and where do you recommend purchasing it? I am not looking to race the car - I just want to boost the hp to a very fun level. Flying Miata has a Voodoo II kit that looks interesting for about $3200. Is this a recommended kit? I don't want to spend much more than $4,000 for all the parts (including clutch and exhaust) and labor.

4. My final question is, what else do I absolutely have to have in addition to the kit? I'm guessing new clutch and new exhaust - anything else?

Bottom line - Can I do the turbo with a good recommended kit for under 4,000k, even if I have a mechanic do the install? And, by adding the turbo, does the car become "high maintenance" so that I am constantly having to make adjustments to make it run right?

Thank you in advance for your input!

Gary

Excellent first post.

Start by googling for the 'miataturbo diy turbo wiki'

then read read read. :)

Dann

Probably not. Like you said a complete kit is $3200, which doesn't include exhaust and a clutch, which is another $800 easily. There's a recent thread here where FM says they charge something like $1800 for an install, and that's pretty typical for a shop to do so, most of which I wouldn't trust. They'll bust out the sawzall before coming on here to ask like an intelligent fellow like yourself would.

Just my 2c, but if you can handle the full-fledged heater replacement in a Miata, there's no way you can't (easily) handle a turbo install.

get a begi basic kit (s1 or whatever), add a clutch, injectors, and megasquirt, assmble yourself (really not that hard) and have a professional tune it/dial it in. with 220-230whp it will be exactly what you're looking for.

4k is very much possible and realistic and the car will be a hoot. Also shouldn't be too much more maint than stock.

No shit...if you lived near me I'd be happy to put a kit together for you and it would be under $3,500. Would be like this...you drop your car off and give me the money and a deadline, and I return your car ready to roll. Would most likely put out about 200whp, and be factory dependable. As far as passing emissions...that might be a different story.

Only you know your real skill level. Go read some build threads where people have documented their turbo installs step by step (often with photos as well) and decide for yourself if it seems too difficult. I would recommend reading the build thread by user Erat for a simple, part DIY/part kit install. Following his path would also give you the results you're looking for.

Thanks, guys, for this very helpful advice. It's encouraging to think that it may be possible for me to do it. I will check out the begi basic kit. Any advantage to this over the Voodoo II?

I wish I were closer to PA; I might take you up on that offer thirdgen. Thankfully we live in a small town so I don't have to worry about it passing emissions.

I think it would be a lot of fun to try to do it myself. I'm just a bit skittish - my 99 is running perfectly and I would hate to mess it up. But the thought of installing the turbo will probably win out in the end! Thankfully, I've got a very good mechanic in town, someone I trust could bail me out if necessary.

Going turbo is the best thing for a miata! Just take your time and read on here you will be fine.

I'm with blaen. If you can change out a heater core . . . .

Some advice for a turbo Miata:

1. You are much better off doing it yourself. Your good mechanic friend makes a living repairing stock cars. Asking him to customize and to do it at a low price isn't fair to either of you. It takes time to do this right. You don't want to rush it. Also, when it comes to maintenance and repairs, if it's not stock, someone better know the details.
2. Things like installing a clutch are good to farm out. No real customizing there.
3. Make sure it's not your only car. I think you've got that covered. A turbo Miata can be a reliable DD, but I assure you once the mods start, you're going to get the itch every six months or so to tinker some more.

Kits mentioned are great starts. It really does transform the car.

Installing the hardware is part of the job but you will want to include a proper engine computer (ECU) in your budget. Boost requires a ton more fuel and the stock computer can't do that well - even if you bolt on the various band aids available.

+1 on trying this yourself as long as it isn't your only transportation. It's not something a beginner will be able to do over a weekend and count on getting to work Monday morning.

It's not your daily driver is it? Don't turn your DD into a project car, that's definitely a bad idea.

Doing it yourself for under $4k is doable if you do the work yourself. But I still wouldn't even let a mechanic work on it if it is your only DD.

Edit: I should probably read before I start commenting, but hopefully the 3 comments in a row all saying the same thing will stress the importance of this point!

Before this car the biggest automotive project I had undertaken was changing the water pump on our GM pickup. I do somewhat miss the convenience of an engine bay with space for you feet as you sit on the fender, and being able to simply go under it to access something without requiring jack stands.

With this car, I have now done about everything that can be done to it without removing the engine, and/or accessing the internals of the transmission or diff. I first did the clutch. Then the next winter I combined my supercharger installation with a timing belt/water pump/hoses refresh. This winter I installed a new suspension and suspension bushings. Take your time, follow the instructions, and have the Factory Service Manual available, and you will be fine. I recommend both hard copy and PDF copies of the FSM. These cars are pretty straight forward to work on.

As others have said, if you do it yourself you know that the person who did it had a vested interest in your safety and in the quality of the work. Plus, if there are any issues, and there are issues with bone stock cars from time to time, you will know the car and how it differs from stock.

Personally, that's why I am going to turbo my car. Part of the reason I bought this car was so I could learn to work on it. Well it's been a year and a half and I haven't had to do any actual work on it (I did do shocks and sways but that was my choice not a necessity). So I am going to add a turbo both to learn to work on it, and because I know it will make things break faster.

Same here.

I've 'built' a couple project cars before, but this Miata will be the most in depth and hands on that I've ventured. Part of the reason for boosting is because turbo = fun, and part is to see if I can do it. These cars seem very straight forward and less complicated than others... seems like the perfect platform to use to learn more about how things work.

My kit adds up to about 4k Works perfect

Turbofan, I looked for Erat's build thread. No success. Could you paste the link? I noticed links to a couple of build threads (great close-up pics btw), but are these applicable to a 99? I'm assuming that it's not a one-size-fits-all situation.

Thanks!

Here is Erat's build thread... Definitely a good read!

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ta-ever-62679/

wait, are we in here all suggesting it cant be done for 4K?

The question was asked whether my Miata is a DD. No, it doesn't have to be. I have a truck I can use to get to work if need be.

As I think more about this, more questions come to mind. With the car nearing 60k, it may be good to do the timing components - something I think I would get the mechanic to do.

So, is the following the right sequence?

1. Order kit, timing components, clutch (recommended clutch????), and exhaust (recommendations preferably under $400???). Any other essential items? (mr_hyde suggested ECU, injectors and megasquirt)

begi or VooDoo II???

2. Mechanic does timing belt and clutch

3. After he's finished, I begin the turbo install. Hopefully I can do it in a full week. I should add that I have basic tools, nothing highly specialized. Any special tools that I need?

4. Mechanic fine-tunes it and I'm good to go

Is this the right order? Am I leaving out anything?

Thanks guys! This forum has inspired me to give it go!

If you do a Begi kit, they offer a stainless 3in exhaust that they can mate to the 2.75in downpipe via a 2.75in to 3in tapered test pipe.

I ordered a log manifold/2560 kit last week with some special options. Mainly, I deleted stuff like the cold air box, air scooper, fuel system, and FMIC. Here's how I did it and what it cost me:

I ordered a FMIC core from a user on this site. $300
I'll build my own piping with pieces from siliconeintakes.com. $100
That right there is about half the cost of the Begi FMIC in the kit.

The exhaust was right around $550 and it will bolt straight up to the kit. No problems, no worries. They also have a smaller diameter for a bit less.

The above cost just under 3k.

I did a MegaSquirt from Braineack, FIC 650 injectors, and Innovate wideband and boost gauges for right around $1000.

I'll need a clutch but my intent is to keep boost as low as possible while I make sure everything works and try to delay the inevitable.

So, from what I've seen over the past year, engine management/clutch/injectors seem to be pretty close in price. Exhaust could prob be built for less if you wanted to take the time and have a welding hookup, otherwise the Begi 3in seemed like a decent price. Turbo systems could be had for less if you piece together stuff like the turbo, downpipe, and manifold. Being somewhat less experienced when compared to other users on this site, I felt like a bare bones kit was the way to go for myself.

Not trying to nut swing on Begi, but they have had excellent customer service with me thus far. They offer nice things like hard lines as standard, allowed me to customize things in the kit that I didn't need/want/thought I could do without.

If you read Erats thread youll see he had a boost creep issue. Begi ports the part of the turbocharger that supposedly contributes to boost creep... for some that might be an easy thing, but I have only minor porting experience and id rather leave stuff like that up to the pros, especially when it is standard on the kit. I haven't received the kit yet, but I'm sure it'll be nice stuff. If its not then there is a warranty that I can fall back on which is another point that reinforced my kit decision.

Note:
Some of the above is regurgitated info I've learned by lurking on this site for over a year before starting my build. I have not installed this kit on my Miata... I haven't even seen it in person yet, so take that into consideration when you read this.

Timing belt wouldn't be the worst idea but you can certainly do this yourself. Our motors are non-interference which means you won't slam valves into pistons if you do it wrong. There are some good write ups around. Same with the clutch. There is a current thread here discussing the best way to do this (engine in or out). Buy a transmission jack with a small percentage of the money you were going to pay the mechanic to do the work. In general, investing in tools>paying shop labor.

A Megasquirt is an ECU - probably the most affordable solution that functions well. FM Stage 1 is a good clutch for a modest build. The downpipe off the turbo should probably come with the turbo kit but the exhaust behind that can be custom (good thing to invest in shop labor).

It's not really fine-tuning. You need a tuner. A basic repair shop will not have a dyno or the experience to do this. You can get by on a base tune for a while if you have a wideband and go easy with autotuning but it is best to get it done right ASAP.

I strongly recommend that YOU do the timing belt and waterpump as a first step on this journey. It will get you into the engine, and is pretty easy (a lot easier than a heater core, I assure you).

The second step should be to mount an ECU (Megasquirt). Get a notebook computer and learn to tune it. This is probably the steepest learning curve item of the entire installation, and doing it on a stock car is, IMHO, the best way to do it.

Third step would be to calculate the size injectors you need to support your HP goal (I used 350cc to support a 200HP goal). Install and tune those.

Now . . . get the turbo kit. By this time, you may be comfortable enough to just DIY from components instead of paying for the kit. That's what I would do now, call ARTECH for nice components instead of only using 1/2 of a Greddy kit.

I started this journey in 2008. It's a journey, don't rush it.

0.02.

This all may seem a little daunting at first but with patience and effort you can do it all by yourself. I had never done more then brake pads, plugs, and oil changes before I got my MSM and I have not had to take it to a professional once. It is also my only car so that should tell you something.

I have had a good bit of help from Sixshooter and I suggest you make friends with someone local that has experience because it is very nice to have help when you need it.

Gosh, everybody's giving the exact same advice independently. This is interesting.

This times eleventy-billion, see my sig. Its not so much that it will become unreliable, its just that you are going to want to take your time, research, check things, read some more, try to wrench on it, something won't look quite right, you will want to ask questions... Another vehicle and some patience are going to go a long way with your personal sanity and satisfaction with the project. Trust me.

I don't know if I would say a timing belt is easier than a heater core. I did my heater core in an hour by cutting the pipe's and just sliding it out. Didn't have to take anything apart.

Hyde, Hornet and Ryan hit you with some of the most helpful and honest information you will ever get from anywhere.

The full-fledged heater core replacement (Not the cheater shortcut like that) is way the hell more difficult than a turbo install or a timing belt replacement.

Not denying that... I guess it all depends on how he did the core... I don't believe he specified one way or the other. And I guess you could call it cheating, but hey.. work smarter not harder right :fawk:

We are all giving the same advice which is because this is a simple question - Yes you can do it yourself for $4k if you follow the 'path'.

One dissenting opinion. Oversize your injectors a bit. You can tune big injectors down but you can't (properly) shoot more fuel through smaller injectors. The cost difference isn't that big and it will save you from doing it twice as you add supporting mods to crank out more safe power.

Wouldn't even call that a dissenting opinion. With gen1 injectors, this wasn't such a great idea. But these days, with ID1000's idling smoother than OEM 235's . . . absolutely.

Im not sure if everybody will agree with this, but I personally would have a hard time trusting a random tuner at some speed shop. So I suggest doing extensive research on how EFI/EMS works and learn about tuning theory. Youll know then if youre up to the challenge of tuning it yourself (with the support of MT of course), or at least youll have a better chance of finding a good tuner who knows what theyre talking about.

There are several resources for this, such as the Megasquirt Megamanual.
My favorite is a Honda specific library that gives a good walkthrough on how speed density tuning works, found at PGMFI.org. Then you can get into the gritty details of megasquirt from there.

Like noted above, proper maintenance and a new clutch is a good idea.
The next step would be to get the car running on megasquirt with some larger injectors.
Once its running around NA on MS, then its a simple task of updating the tune from there when you turbo it.

You are in NE Georgia. Get in touch wih DIY Autotune, they will get you started with Megasquirt and they can tune the car indyno once evereything is buttoned up.
Get Garrett 2560 Turbo, good exhaust manifold which is not prone to cracking, front mount intercooler, piping and big injectors 550 cc or greater,and that should get you close. Limit boost to 8 - 12 psi and this will keep most of the reliability and heat load in daily driver territory.
I would not count out some used parts to keep costs down.

Tools needed - for the clutch, if you do it with the engine in the car, you will want the aforementioned transmission jack (mine was $60 from Harbor Freight, totally worth it for even a one-time use) and a good selection of extensions/ujoints for your socket set. And make sure you have 6-point sockets, not 12. The 12's can easily round a nut off.

And when you do the clutch, put in a stainless steel clutch line as well, available from several of our sponsors. It gets rid of the curly-q line at the bottom, but more importantly, a couple of fiddly brackets are no longer needed which can be a PITA when putting the trans back onto the car by yourself. They like to shift around, get in the way, no longer be oriented how they're supposed to, etc.

Wow, you guys are amazing! I've gone from thinking that not only can I do the turbo, but maybe even the clutch and timing belt.

So, it looks like I have lots to research and think about. I would like to get started on some of the tasks during spring break (March 18-22). I will keep you updated on the progress.

Someone asked about how I did the heater core replacement. I had a 96 Miata with cracks on the dash. I found a replacement dash at The Parts Group in almost mint condition. So, I removed the old dash and instrument cluster. Someone suggested that I replace the heater core while I was at it, so that's how I did it - I found a heater core in good condition, installed it, and then replaced the dash. It took me a couple of days to the dash and heater core, but I tend to plod along when I do these things to make sure I get it right the first time.

Someone else asked if I live in NE Georgia - yes, I do!

Also, I checked my odometer again and noticed that I have 53k on it, not 55k. Should that make a difference on whether to mess with the timing belt at this stage. Or is 53k close enough to go ahead and replace it while I am at it?

....

I'm completely serious when I say this.

You'll have no problem doing a turbo install, clutch replacement, or timing belt if you did that with no problems. Pulling and replacing a dash is a way bigger pain in the ass compared to any of those.

Yes, the dash job was definitely was a pain! Wouldn't want to tackle that one again.

Wow huge props for doing the dash/ core! Thats huge and I definitely would say your are capable of doing the clutch/ timing belt/ turbo set-up install :bigtu:

The timing belt on the miata was my first stab at anything of the sort.

Basic mechanical knowledge and a toolbox, along with the help of this forum and you can do just about anything to these cars.

Do yourself a favor though. Don't piece together a DIY kit for the IC pipes. Just call FM and order the silicone kit and be done with it. Just my :2cents: knowing from experience.

Good luck! :bigtu:

Just curious... why not piece together a kit? I bought a universal piping kit on E-Bay... is it just a lot harder to run the piping that way?

Fewer couplers = more win.

Good guide on doing the clutch: Samnavy shows you how

Makes sense... Thanks. Guess I'll use my Flea-Bay kit to start off and upgrade if I have problems lol

Based upon this unsolicited statement, I'm making a couple of predictions:

1. You're not going to have any problems whatsoever.
2. You're going to have a great setup.

Our first demand: Build thread with nice pictures.

At 53K and 14 years, you're due for a TB/WP. So, go right ahead. Reasonably priced kits are available on E-bay (members have had good experiences) or Rosenthal Mazda (a bit more, but you get OEM gaskets that are really nice).

You can definitely to the timing belt and the water pump yourself.
Just pay attention to detail such as clean and true mating surfaces on joints, and proper torque on the bolts.

And, the three most important things you need to know about timing belt replacement on a Miata are as follows:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362359172

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362359172

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362359172

All in all:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362359172

Thought I would share a few photos:

When I first bought it in 06 with 28k:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362360871

A couple of years later:

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mu...-c/CarsForSale

On the way home from Miatas at the Gap - 09

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8t...atasAtTheGap09

Today it looks essentially the same because I baby it too much! It's time to give it a turbo and see what it can do!

Can't see the pics..

This is the first I heard of this. I went to the site and couldn't find it. I am about to get a new and much bigger intercooler for my MSM so I'm sure I'll need new intercooler pipes. Do you have a link or have any idea if this will work with an MSM turbo?

I was actually curious myself and found their intercooler kit on their site but it was like $700... yikes! I'm sure if you sent them an e-mail they could give you the price of just the silicone pipes

The silicone pipes and throttle body elbow were something like $400.

That may sound steep, but it's 100% worth it.

Mate them to your choice of IC from CXRacing and you'll be all set.

Sorry about that. I think you can see them now.

Ah, Silver NB... the memories

The silicone hot side won't fit perfectly - the Jpipe is clocked differently on the MSM vs a typical garret. The intercooler to the throttle body will be essentially the same on any NA/NB.

Are NB dashes really that bad? I can have a dash out in half an hour without breaking the gauge hood on an NA, including pulling the seats out. I had the NA8 Dash out, wiring harness swapped, heat box removed, carpet removed, insulation added, and everything put back in with an NA6 dash in 4 hours if you dont count the time I had to go to the store to get the correct sized rivets for swapping the vin tag. Dashes are easy. Trying to get the long bolt out of the lower rear control arm is a nightmare.

It was an NA (96) that I did the dash switch on. I cannot speak for the NB. All I can say is that it took me a long time to do my 96 including the heater core.

Here is what the Miata Haynes Repair Manual says about doing the timing chain and sprockets:
"The timing system is complex. Severe engine damage will occur if you make any mistakes. Do not attempt this procedure unless you are highly experienced with this type of repair. If you are at all unsure of your abilities, consult an expert."

Okay, now I'm having doubts again about doing the timing belt myself.

That warning is in every car's. On our cars it doesnt matter how wrongly you install the belt you wont do any serious damage.

Watch out, we're talking about 2 different things here... what you want is the silicone sections for the FMII intercooler kit. The FMII silicone is NOT on their site, you need to call them up and order the parts individually. The MSM kit is what's on their site. It will only work on the MSM.

I've got the coldside pipe, it fits "meh" on my 2000, but this is due to the goofy lines for the AC. If I had no AC, there would be no problem. It seems to work fine on every other application. Can you do it cheaper with individual parts from somewhere like siliconeintakes? Sure, but the FM parts eliminate probably a dozen failure points and clamps. That's all kinds of win, if you are willing to pay for the premium.

What?! Are you going to trust a Haynes "manual" or a collection of random anonymous homo jackasses on a gay car forum? :vash2:

Also, Miata uses a timing belt, not chain. In my book, we're already one up on the book :party:

Are timing belt installs really that bad?

Its harder to do with one person than a dash if you dont have a cam tool I guess.