Intake Manifold Modification... And more.
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So yeah, I did this. Should have been doing other things, but I couldn't resist.
Attachment 209464 Attachment 209465 Attachment 209466 Attachment 209467 Attachment 209468 Attachment 209469 Attachment 209470 Attachment 209471 Attachment 209472 Also, added two ports to the now larger plenum. One for the wastegate, one for BOV. Made a hardline to go to the wastegate. Will make one for the BOV when I do charge pipes. Favorite pic. :) Attachment 209473 Attachment 209474 Attachment 209475 Attachment 209476 Attachment 209477 Attachment 209478 |
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Ok, what difference is that going to make? Is it going to jack up idle?
Just curious. I have a spare motor. If this would make alot of power, i could do it tommorrow. Brain, Joe, what up with it.:) What do you think will be the con's and Pro's of doing this? |
Basically I removed the "ceiling" above the butterfly valves so that when they open *gasp* air can pass through them. Before, they were VICS, a resonance chamber. Now it's another set of runners to feed the engine air. Should help top end power. Artie Partie dyno'd doing this on a turbo car and had good results.
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Good stuff :)
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Does the 1.6L have this? And does cutting it out, hurt low end?
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 344182)
Basically I removed the "ceiling" above the butterfly valves so that when they open *gasp* air can pass through them. Before, they were VICS, a resonance chamber. Now it's another set of runners to feed the engine air. Should help top end power. Artie Partie dyno'd doing this on a turbo car and had good results.
Originally Posted by Toddcod
(Post 344201)
Does the 1.6L have this? And does cutting it out, hurt low end?
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nice job man love the work and u got some good posts keep it up. i wish i did the hard lines they are soooo much cleaner looking damn
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I'm curious as to how much power it will add..I've seen the other one, and this one will be the second, so it will either prove this mod worth it or not. unless its 20hp+, I wont bother with mine.
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i just realized that I forgot to jack with vics on my car before it hits the dyno. I was just going to take the butterfly out.
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Remember though that Artie never dynod it with the VICS working. So his comparison was with VICS there but doing nothing compared to VICS removed. The gain might be smaller if the comparison included working VICS.
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I've done a lot of headwork to my motor. So it flows more than most 99's. :) The stock intake manifold was holding it back. I hope this helps some. I still plan to build/buy a new one this summer.
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Originally Posted by johndoe
(Post 344278)
Remember though that Artie never dynod it with the VICS working. So his comparison was with VICS there but doing nothing compared to VICS removed. The gain might be smaller if the comparison included working VICS.
Or am I wrong here (yeah I can search but what's the fun in that)? Does the OEM ECU use that small vacuum chamber to keep the VICS active during WOT? If so, yah an active VICS "before" would make the comparison nicer. |
The vics will be open unless the solenoid is energized and therefore were "working" even if they weren't plugged in. No idea where it gets vacuum from at WOT though.
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 344156)
Also, added two ports to the now larger plenum. One for the wastegate, one for BOV. Made a hardline to go to the wastegate. Will make one for the BOV when I do charge pipes.
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Originally Posted by VanMSM
(Post 344657)
Also, your spool is gonna suffer without even a simple ball&spring MBC...but I assume that's your intent initially.
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I don't see a coolant reroute in process:eek5:
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INHO the wastegate actuated off the intake manifold gives you more accurate control and makes up for piping loses.
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I was under the impression that the VICS worked off of rpm and not vacuum. Maybe that is just the way that i ahd to hook mine up since it is a 92 and did not have the controls to begin with. I have mine activated through a MSD pill switch.
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Originally Posted by VanMSM
(Post 344657)
Why don't you just use the port on the turbo compressor outlet for the wastegate source? Supposedly quicker response the closer it is to the turbo. Also, your spool is gonna suffer without even a simple ball&spring MBC...but I assume that's your intent initially.
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Originally Posted by olderguy
(Post 344700)
I don't see a coolant reroute in process:eek5:
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Originally Posted by musanovic
(Post 344697)
how do you get to this logic?
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Great work on the IM.
I think I am going to go all the way like the other fellows did. If you are using the VICS though I think that is going to help you out alot. I cant prove that, but that looks like it makes sense.. |
Originally Posted by TURNS101
(Post 345290)
Great work on the IM.
I think I am going to go all the way like the other fellows did. If you are using the VICS though I think that is going to help you out alot. I cant prove that, but that looks like it makes sense.. |
is it done? really want to know if there is any difference i got a spare which i am gonna hack up.
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 345339)
I believe my way is better than Paul's manifold. And simpler as well. VICS is a resonance chamber. I removed that.
Also, do both of your vacuum lines from the wastegate connect to the Intake manifold?? Thanks |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 345339)
I believe my way is better than Paul's manifold. And simpler as well. VICS is a resonance chamber. I removed that.
Originally Posted by musanovic
(Post 345352)
is it done? really want to know if there is any difference i got a spare which i am gonna hack up.
Originally Posted by TURNS101
(Post 350805)
Pat, so how about doing your mod and taking the butterflies out?
Also, do both of your vacuum lines from the wastegate connect to the Intake manifold?? Thanks Yes it's done, and turbocharged. :):):):) But it doesn't pull hard to redline like I was hoping for. :mad::bang::vash: Oh well. It may get better with tuning and changing timing. Before it stopped making power after 6K. Now it stops making power after 6500.... It's an improvement for sure, but not a "fix". I'll build a new manifold this summer. Or buy one if someone makes one that's worth it. As for the wastegate, if you look in the pictures I posted, you will CLEARLY see I only hooked the bottom port of the wastegate up to the intake manifold with a hardline.. And that's wrong. :bang: Gate will never open hooked up like that. I hit overboost several times before I figured that out. There's huge debate over how to hook up a dual port tial wastegate. I hooked the side port to the intake manifold and got 8 PSI. Now I hooked a MBC between the side port and intake and am running 11. But if you read about tial wastegates you'll see that with dual port setups, they suggest you hook the top port to the manifold, and the side port to the MBC, and then adjust the MBC to set boost. Supposedly the wastegate will remain closed longer doing it this way. Once I get my setup dialed in how I like it, I'm gonna datalog both setups on the same day/temp/etc and see what works the best for me. |
You telling us all this info is awesome.
I have to look and see how I have my wastegate set up now. I dont thing I have it going into the Intake manifold. I think it was going into the spot on the turbo near the IC piping and the other goes into my ProfecB boost controller.. What are your plans for the intake manifold now? Wait, or will you tinker with it?? |
Originally Posted by TURNS101
(Post 351201)
You telling us all this info is awesome.
I have to look and see how I have my wastegate set up now. I dont thing I have it going into the Intake manifold. I think it was going into the spot on the turbo near the IC piping and the other goes into my ProfecB boost controller.. What are your plans for the intake manifold now? Wait, or will you tinker with it?? |
SOunds good Pat.
Thanks |
Sigh, another thread to get caught up on.
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 350828)
Yes it's done, and turbocharged. :):):):) But it doesn't pull hard to redline like I was hoping for. :mad::bang::vash: Oh well. It may get better with tuning and changing timing. Before it stopped making power after 6K. Now it stops making power after 6500.... It's an improvement for sure, but not a "fix". I'll build a new manifold this summer. Or buy one if someone makes one that's worth it.
If you're giant turbo isn't pulling to redline... There has to be something in the tune cause my little baby turbo does just fine at 8k. I *DO* want to read up on the mods - mostly if something can be done with the VVT intakes, since.... I have several of them sitting around. :-) |
Originally Posted by AbeFM
(Post 351212)
Sigh, another thread to get caught up on.
you SO don't have to redo our intake manifold. Yes, it will help - but your tune is so abysmal, the manifold is not holding you back. You've got 20 links of 3 ton test and a bit of twine. Fix the easy stuff before making plans. It's so burried in theory it's utterly impracticable. If you're giant turbo isn't pulling to redline... There has to be something in the tune cause my little baby turbo does just fine at 8k. I *DO* want to read up on the mods - mostly if something can be done with the VVT intakes, since.... I have several of them sitting around. :-) Yeah, it is possible that the tune is what's now holding it back... Abe, what timing table are you running? I'm gonna print out a bunch of timing tables that 99+ people are running and compare them to mine. Of course I'm not looking at peak numbers, just what I feel. I feel boost come on strong around 4500 and it continues to sink me into the seat till about 6500, then stops climbing. Granted it's probably holding flat, but it stopped climbing. Someone send me a knock sensor for a 99'. :) Seriously, I need one. |
off topic
You changed your sig. That quote always made me laugh. /off topic |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 351241)
Of course I'm not looking at peak numbers, just what I feel. I feel boost come on strong around 4500 and it continues to sink me into the seat till about 6500, then stops climbing. Granted it's probably holding flat, but it stopped climbing.
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Originally Posted by JayL
(Post 351371)
I would recommend spending some quality time on a dyno as opposed to relying on what your ass is telling you.
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What happened to your stock knock sensor?
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Originally Posted by cjernigan
(Post 351397)
What happened to your stock knock sensor?
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Ask and ye shall recieve. PM me some shipping details, I think I have one someone donated me. If I can't find it.. your loss. :-P
Huh. Ok, I'll post an ignition table. With the MSM cams I had to pull some timing in the 5-6k range... Sigh, let me see if I can ignore the naked proffesional-hottie on my bed and find my laptop. Wish me luck. |
Asking....
I also need a 99 knock sensor.. Sorry for asking on your thread Pat. It was kind of on topic ;) You will fix it up Pat, and when you do, that thing is going to be an animal.. |
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