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Old 12-22-2009, 12:37 PM   #1
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Default intercooler opinions/sizing

I know this has been covered a million times, and I have read a ton here on the subject. I am about ready to buy this and wondered if the experts here can se any reason I shouldn't.

Professional Motorsport Parts, Spares & Rally Equipment from Rally Design

II am planning to go over the top of the rad with the charge pipes. using 2 inch piping and reducers at the intercooler fittings and the t-body. I am using a dsm t-25 so the turbo outlet points forward (relative to the car) when mounted and should give a pretty clean install. I know 2.5 inch would be better on the cold side but I have read here that I can get away with 2 inch over the rad and not have to drop/lean it. That being the case, and having read from a few sources (corky being one of them) that there isnt really alot of difference from a functional standpoint, I wil take the easy road.

And as you will ask, we are aiming for 200 hp, any more than that is just gravy. 1992 1.6, MS fitted and running already, undecided on injectors (open to suggestions).

EDIT- also worth mentioning, I have AC and Power steering. I want too keep both. Think It'll fit?

Last edited by Blaize; 12-22-2009 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:26 PM   #2
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It will fit with a little peristance.

I've heard a few people that do 2 inch hot side and 2.5 inch. You'll be fine
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaize View Post
And as you will ask, we are aiming for 200 hp, any more than that is just gravy. 1992 1.6, MS fitted and running already, undecided on injectors (open to suggestions).
For 200whp the RX7 460s or similar will work.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:58 AM   #4
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The reducers are themselves a restriction. If you're talking silicone reducers, they also cost a heck of a lot more than straights. A 2.5-in. pipe has more than 50% greater cross section than a 2-in. pipe. I'd go for the 2.5-in. charge pipes and just flatten them a little as they go over the radiator if you need more clearance to the hood. The changes in section will naturally be smoother than the silicone reducers, and leave you with a lesser reduction in flow area for a shorter distance.

Fitting PS will be determined by your manifold configuration, which you didn't specify. Since I'm not aware of any OTS manifolds to use a DSM turbo, I assume you're going custom. If you go top mount and suffer the lame downpipe, it should be easy. If you go bottom mount, a weld-el log may naturally put the turbo close enough to the block that you may be able to snake the inlet down behind the PS pump between the PS line and the motor. Or you can do something like Tim did for his A/C and PS compatible manifold and move it outboard, pointed a little to the side to avoid the PS. Since you're doing over the top, you shouldn't have to notch the frame rail for the discharge tube, and that might actually work out pretty well.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:38 PM   #5
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I am using Megan racing mani and D/P. Dont start. I know. I got it all cheap. Anyway I was just outside looking and measuring and I am going to have to ditch the A/C with this thing aren't I? I cant see any way the drier is going to move fully 4-5 inches over to the side to fit this puppy in. I have an alloy plate over the top of the rad at the moment and I will remove it in the morning, to see if it looks like it can be moved.

Mind you, the compressor took a **** at the end of the summer and this is England so we only hit 90 deg F for about 15 minutes in the middle of aug. so I suppose I could pull it out and save the weight.

Dammit the whole reason I went out of my way to find a JDM Eunos is for the A/C and now it is going to have to come out.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:02 PM   #6
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The dryer can always be moved, I'm told.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:18 PM   #7
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The condenser (the part of the A/C that's a heat exchanger in front of the radiator) can be repositioned moderately. The brackets are relatively simple to modify/redesign, and the hard lines are soft aluminum that will accept slight re-bending by hand.

I'll still start on the Megan Racing. I had one of their test pipes on another car, and the hanger tore out of the case. You will inevitably replace that junk. Might as well replace it now, before you have to re-do a whole bunch of other stuff you already did.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:11 AM   #8
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Right I have just gone down and taken off the alloy top plate over the radiator and had a look. And I have totally changed my mind. Stuff it, I'll go with the same "snake the pipes under and around" routine that everyone else does. Over the top would be cleaner but frankly given the limitations I am working with (cant weld, no garage, car is a daily driver {my only other option being to commute 20 miles each way in a 77 VW bus}) I am going to give in and follow the crowd. That being the case, I would like to use an intercooler wide enough that I can just put silicone 90's on the ends and have it point back. I have read here that about an 18" is right for that? I'll check again later for the post I found that in, before I do any ordering. The other plus of course is that now I am back to the el cheapo eBay intercoolers so that price willl be damn near 1/2 what the unit I linked to above was going to cost. And of course I can now use 2.5" pipes throughout.

As stated The car has A/C and I am about 1/2 way talked into removing it. I even got the go ahead from the wife on that one. However if I can make it work with A/C so much the better.

So the new question is, can I fit a wide enough intercooler in there to fill the hole. A short but wide one. And still keep the A/C drier in place? Or should I just bite the ******* bullet, rip the A/C out, and stop being a ***** (yes Hustler, I know what you will have to say on the matter). Is having the A/C in place going to force me into some sort of compromise with the intercooler?

And one last thing regarding the manifolds (much as I DO NOT want to get into a big debate about it) They are not actually Megan racing parts. They are labeled "X02 racing" I only said megan racing because they look damn near identical, and in the past I have asked here about X02 racing and drawn a blank stare from everyone. I bought the manifold, tubo, oil lines, and D/P here from the classifieds. Guy I bought it all from (who parted the car and is now gone so far as I can tell) was actually the 2nd owner of these parts. All of it seems to have held up for both of them so I am willing to give it a whirl on mine. I have never seen in person one of the eBay/Megan racing mani's so I cannot compare the two but what I have feels pretty robust, and of course I will be fabbing up a support bracket of some kind once it is all on the car.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:39 AM   #9
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How are you going to fab support brackets if you can't weld?
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:59 PM   #10
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No what I mean is here at home I can't weld. I am a mechanic by trade so I can actually weld I just dont have the equipment here at home. My current employer takes a dim view about us doing alot of work on our own cars at work so a multi day turbo install is out of the question. I will build a set of support brackets to hold its weight, but I am not going to go crazy and overdo it as some others do with a full bolt in frame. If it moves around to much (at all really) then I will get a bit more involved once it is all in and sort of a one day job. Frankly once it is all packed in there I suspect it will stay in position on its own with a little help.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
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How are you going to fab support brackets if you can't weld?
If you cant weld you can always drill a hole and use a bolt.. there should be brackets already on the intercooler to mount the other end to them.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:54 PM   #12
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Age must be setting in faster than I can recognize, as my feelings on IC's are going down hill rapidly. Or so I suppose.....

I am about to arrive at the point of suggesting an IC ought to be the smallest possible piece that does the job. Now, doing the "job" is something one can only tell after the fact. Since its been my hobby/career/livelyhood/passion/etc/other BS/ I've had gobs of after fact situations, and sort of come to believe an IC ought to be above 85% effective, and not lose more than 10% of the boost.

Considering cost, weight, and radiator blockage, the smallest satisfactory unit seems to have a solid edge on the IC that fills up all available space.

Consider that if one has a $1000 IC, running 90% effective, an IC ten times as big has only 10% more heat that could possibly be removed. That 100% effective point would be certainly be worth bragging about, but don't get to counting on it. The cost might be a bit excessive too.

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