ITT we discuss why my brand new 2871R seized
 

:crx:

20ish autocross runs, about 15 laps at Calspeed (one full session, 3 partial sessions). It started making a little bit of noise for about a lap, and then it stopped making boost completely. I thought I had popped a pipe, but then I heard it squeak a couple of times.

Back to Garrett tomorrow. I have an event in 2 weeks. :vash:

WTF?! That stinks.
First thing that comes to minder is the funky oil drain, but other than that...?

Holy shit man:eek5:


Turbo miata's everywhere tremble at the mere mention of the name "Savington":giggle:

If anything, that would cause an oil seal to go. Turbo is dry on the compressor side. Haven't seen the turbine side yet (I am going to hurl if the housing is fucked up).

I know, that's why I doubt it's that. Very curious: get that turbo off, it's only three bolts this time :) Ok, and some oil/water lines.

Bah. Don't know whether I didn't get them tight enough when I clocked it or whether they backed out on their own, but 5 of the 6 bolts that hold the turbine housing to the CHRA backed out. Turbine cocked to one side, made noise for a while, then finally seized the shaft. The turbo spins free, just like it should, but the housing and turbine wheel are done.

May do Resbond, may do safety wire. :vash:

Wow, mine were tight as hell to get off. Maybe you put it on hand tight and forgot about them later on? I doubt that that is going to be our next failure point.

Nope, I remember cranking down all 12 at the same time. I clocked the CHRA to fit the drain line, snugged a couple, pulled it back out and cranked them all. :(

Fuck, better get a root cause analysis on this.

Didn't JayL's brand new Garrett destroy itself as well?

Sucks Sav, and just when we thought you were done having to mess around with the turbo!

He used teflon where he shouldn't have?

i still don't see how that made a compressor nut pop off....

Thought that was ZXTex...

that's gay as fuck. Time for me to bust out the safety wire on mine.

They aren't supposed to be horribly tight, 30ftLb's IIRC with blue loctite optional.

Is this a poor attempt at humor? Please clarify so I can belittle you on the internet. I'd hate to mistakenly harass anyone.

When I was clocking my 3071 I couldn't find a torque spec so I email Garrett tech support. I was surprised at the low value but maybe it's just for the compressor side as it is aluminum. I can't find the email now so maybe my memory is failing but it was low.

so...what about the blue loctite? Does that work?

btw, 30lb/t is a shit-ton for that little bolt.

That really sucks! Sorry to hear....

The guy said it was optional but a good idea....

So you're telling me that the engineer from Garrett recommended using a 300*f thread-locker on this:
http://badger-5.com/bin/glowing-turbo.jpg

Please tell me this isn't true.

As i mentioned earlier, I had asked for the compressor side torque value.

Oh and Sav - you know the rules: pics or this never happened.

I've never heard of those bolts backing out on any turbo before.

I always tighten those bolts as much as I humanly can with a wrench. Basically to the point where the bolt head would begin to round off. Probably like 50-60ft lb or more.

+1 although a bit less. Mine were tight as hell when they came out so they went in tight as hell too.

Im not sure on the Gerrett turbos but when I did a dsm turbo for my miata. I used oil because the threads did not go all the way through so it was like hydro locking the bolts in.

what?

stop posting, please.

Believe he's saying the blind holes in his dsm turbo somehow were full of oil. Tightening against this oil (pressurizing it, not hydrolock) created a false sense of tightness. But I agree, stop posting for now.

Sav, sounds like you need to v-band the v-band setup. Id make fun of you for spending all this money for nothing, but A: this really sucks and I'm sorry for you, and B: my miata is engineless currently so I have no room to talk.

Okay I will to make the elders happy.

Dang, that really sucks. I've been keeping an eye on the nuts/studs/v-band threads to see how this turns out. Look on the bright side... at least the turbine housing stayed attached to the manifold. Right?

is there anyway the housing could have cocked to one side a tiny bit when you torqued them down. since you took the turbo off to tighten it could have happened then. if it was, that would mean that the bolts were tight (torque wise) until later when the housing or center section moved (flattened out) then the bolts would be loose, then the housing would move again this time enough to make contact. i know it's far fetched but can't imagine another way for that to happen if you tightened them all down. did you use a star pattern when tightening the bolts down? i've seen people zap lugs on with an impact where the wheel wasn't flat against the hub. they even used a torque wrench, only to have the wheel come off later after the wheel seated correctly allowing the bolts to come loose.

sorry to hear about that man. i hate when little shit like that fucks up expensive parts. good luck.

it's a sign to use the .64.

seriously though, that's not a frequent occurence. does your shit generate some bolt-loosening harmonics? got dam.

I'm going to safety wire mine. I'm really sorry to hear about this Savington.

However, isn't it great to pull on basically any car on the track? Its always a trip to pull GT3's and Vettes on the straights for a change.

It was nice being able to run down 996 Turbos and shit. 280whp is retarded power in this car. 3rd gear is nearly unuseable.

I've certainly seen that, where you tighten not quite on the bottom, very easy to get it cocked.I've come across the fluid filled holes thing before, too, often just wiggling the bolt lets it breath.

Sorry to hear about it. I guess still no ideas? None of the bolts broke, right?


On the subject of virbrations, everything with less than two bolts holding itself to my intake manifold breaks eventually. Doesn't matter what it's made out of.

dude thats so lame, your car was running so well yesterday too. i was watching you on the straights and it was so cool seeing you pull on the 996.

BTW, did you break 50?

He was ~12 sec under SM record.

would of been another 2-3 sec faster if he didn't ran out of gear down the front straight

he needs to slow down, and won't have any issues.

they probably backed out because you're a virgin.

How's your car running? Oh wait...

Yeah - 444 hp / 3630 lbs (turbo s) = 0.122314 (8.175 lb/hp crank)
* 2500 lb car: 305 crank hp, *2300 lb car 280 crank hp.

I'm sure your car weighs less, and 250 whp is certainly something you've been able to put together. Wish I could have been there.

safety wire is really the only way to go besides v-band i guess... there's a reason you have to safety wire a lot of shit to pass most race tech inspections...

It would be pretty slick if you could v-band the housings to the bearing house.

yeah, i wasn't sure if that existed :p hence the "i guess..."

There are larger turbos that are like that. Nothing in the T3 or T4 category that I know of.

Besides drilling the heads of the bolts for safety wire, could it be easier to waterjet some thin sheet stock that's a little longer than the plates that hold on the turbine...bend tangs up onto the side of the bolt hex head to keep it from rotating? There's something on the car that uses this; I remember having to hammer them flat to remove the bolts.

That sounds like a great plan actually. Much more simple.

Thanks... :makeout:

For something quick n dirty, you (I) could cut some out with the cutoff wheel and clean em up with a belt sander. I got my mockup chinese turbo here I can get the bolt pattern off of. I'll get some .030 or so sheet from mcmaster. If you want.

McMaster should sell bolts with the heads already drilled. It's an expensive problem to have reoccur.

But let's talk about exactly how fucked I am, here:

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Any chance some sand paper can fix that housing? It looks like its sticking out, not in... Turbo you'll have to ship out for garrett's exchange program.

gee that's not too bad, a little buffing here and there, some JBwelGOD FUCKING DAMN THAT SUCKS. Sorry to hear, your build was/is inspirational on 20 different levels. What are your plans now?

You think the wheel is that bad? I might just try it. The housing can probably be saved.

is this a serious response, or are you just gaying up your own thread?

that's how mitsubishi turbo's are held together. v-band since atleast 1990 maybe earlier.

sav - for sure you could smooth out that wheel and housing. but that turbo won't be balanced anymore. could last a day or a year. try it, you've got nothing to lose.

Ouch! Sucks to see that happen after all that expense. Solve one problem then another comes up.

except the comp housing, which would then mean I'm out $1100 vs just $750. CHRA goes to Garrett this week, I'll try and sand the housing out before I replace that.

where's the picture of the turbine Splitime used to run for a while...

edit:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/IMG_0460.jpg

iirc he still made 236rwhp on it :P

I still think that's like going into battle with a dull sword....those blades literally are the tip of the spear in a turbocharged system.

For how much we work to optimize everything else (COPS anybody?) I'd want the turbo to be top notch.

I think the housing can be easily salvaged. the wheel probably isn't true anymore and might have enough play to hit even with a new housing.

when a screw went through mine the blades were still perfect, but it bent the wheel enough that the bottom edge of the blades rubbed against the heat-shield on the chra.