slick coil bracket :bigtu:

My black anodized Tial EWG has sort of turned purple when I was running it without coolant flowing through it.

According to the megamanual for the d585 truck coils dwell = 4.5ms and spark duration = 2.0ms
is that what everyone is running?

I read through this whole thread. Anybody have any luck driving the tach?

You use your MS to drive the tach. Been doing it that way for years.

Use the megasquirt tach out.

Im also doing the upgrade to the ls2 truck coils and here is my attempt. It was getting dark outside and i messed a bit of cable up. So i need to order one.

I think it looks pretty nice already. Engine bay looks nothing special, but then again the outside is stock with a classic carrier so a little bit sleeper style

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3b6fb48344.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7e237a61ba.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...02fbd5ecf2.jpg

What coolant reroute hose is that?

From the new IL Motorsport Reroute Kit

So my setup is finished now, havent driven yet but idle it runs good as normal,

Only weird think is i had to lower the VE table a lot, PW and Duty Cycle and AFR is now the same as before, but the VE table at idle is much much lower now.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9eb2435c8d.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b91b8da031.jpg

If anyone needs a bracket for D585s as well as custom ignition wires, we are now offering them for all NA and NBs!

https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...2/#post1334752

Can someone confirm if my diagram for a 1.6 is correct? I'm not 100% sure where to splice pin 26 to get tach.

(sorry for the shitty MSPaint drawing)

Another option is the "IGN-1A" Coils by AEM, part number 30-2853 . They have enough juice for about 250hp per coil and can be run in wasted spark if needed. I'm running very high boost on a built engine with .036 plug gap and no spark blow out. The main reason I got them is for the 1 year warranty and they're $80 a piece.



https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ec46d80921.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d866dd5ec9.jpg

Would some one be willing to make a pnp harness for my 99 nb?

I can mail the pigtails and oem plugs, and compensate for parts/time/labor involved.

I tried to have fab9 do an ls coils pnp harness for me, he said sure we can make it, just order the plugs for the coils. so i ordered plugs, and called to place an order 10 times, left 3 voicemails, and sent 5 emails, over a period of 2 month's. and fab9 still has not picked up the phone, nor called back, nor replied to my emails.

This thread was pretty helpful during my D585 install but it lacks some information on Dwell settings. I have seen a few other threads mention nominal Dwell being around (4.2-4.7ms) but nothing on cranking Dwell (currently set to 8.0ms). I made a video on installing these into 90-93 cars using the factory harness, SADfabs bracket, D585s with factory pigtails and connectors, and DIYPNP MS2. Very easy to set up for wasted spark but I don't have any tach signal the way I did it. Easy to fix running from tachout in MS to the back of the cluster but there are also other ways, just depends on your setup.

Very cool. Nice video.

+1 on the video (unforutnately the still-shot of the YouTube video makes it look like you're doing something "unholy" to the car)

Ha! It does. I looked at it like I was representing my local autocross region but, it totally looks like I'm trying to figure out how to biologically make an NB.

Now that I've got them working (see https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...mystery-90677/ for my moronic problem), here's my coils mounted on my DIY bracket (mentioned in this thread):

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...df51f543b1.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c80b1b817c.jpg
The brackets are surprisingly solid, 3mm aluminium, you can put your hand across the CNPs mount and rock the whole car.

The popular video for this is great, but I'm unclear on what I should be doing with my igniter. He took the cover off and soldered a few of the pins together. Any more information on the what and why? Thank mr skeltal

Edit: got my answer, it's a cleaner way of joining the wires proximal to the connector. I r smorter

4.5ms might be too much depending on what your battery correction table looks like.

Raw data straight from a 5.3 truck ECM (6.0 data is extremely similar):

Attachment 234448

I punched that all into Excel and produced the same data as a percentage of dwell at 14v, then distilled that a little further to give me two 2D curves to punch into the MS3.

Dwell vs. RPM:

Attachment 234449

Dwell vs. Battery voltage:

Attachment 234450

Without a 3D table like the GM ECU has, you're stuck with two linear 2D curves. The battery curves are correct for everything above ~5000rpm and a little low below that, but since these coils discharge with excessive dwell at high RPM, I felt it was better to stay on the conservative side everywhere. The tables above will never produce a dwell figure that's higher than the OEM table, which is what I wanted.

I have cranking dwell set at 4.5ms and the car cold-started in my 68*F shop, but YMMV.

This is probably the most helpful post in this thread. Is there a dwell you would recommend for us who are stuck in the stone age with an ms2 without a dwell table? Is 4ms too much?

This may be why my coils start to act up after I stay on the rev limiter for a good bit in autocross. The ignition starts to break up really badly and it takes a good 3 or 4 seconds before the car responds and revs properly. I think I have my dwell at 4.5ms.

I would try 3.5ms. That will be too low through the midrange by ~0.5ms, but I'd rather be low by 0.5ms than high by 0.5ms.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3ba...rdware-1.4.pdf section 5.3.2 "Logic Coils" recommends this value too:

"A dwell figure of 3.5ms is advised for LS2 coils. (was 4.5)"

"A dwell figure of 3.5ms is advised for truck coils."

Here's another (my) version of the top Mount bracket for the d514a's. I spaced thr cois so that you can reach the #4 plug without removing the coils.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a7e9cdbc2e.jpg

Nice brackets

Attached is Savingtons dwell table in an easy to import format.

What is everyone running for spark duration.

Those brackets are truly a work of art!.

If you made them by hand I tip my hat to you - I did mine by hand and they took ages.
Yours look too perfect and complex to make by hand though.

Are you grounding the coils on the top rear bracket bolt?

Would be better/tidier to use an out-of-sight bolt at the rear that connects to the engine block - there's plenty to choose from.

Tip: You might want to number your harness plugs and their corresponding CNP so you don't mis-connect them in future, based on your ignition leads between the plugs and CNPs, the CNPs aren't mounted in sequential order.

Are these off the shelf wires or did you make them yourself?

@Vincentmiata, I didn't think the IL Motorsport reroute worked on 1.8L

It does fit but the reroute piece in het back is touching the coolant hose that goes from the back to the oil cooler. So we decided to bring it out for the 1.6 only.

I need to check the CAD drawings if i can shave a few mm of. Ive already seen the new 1.8 prototype. So i can use the new 1.8 piece if shaving doesnt work

I only designed the original piece and i tought it should fit the 1.8 also. But somehow something went wrong.

We'll, it's extremely clever and I wish it was compatible because that'd make servicing and hose routing quite simple! Do you know if anyone sells the components individually, say the silicone hose and holder to the intake manifold?

Since the inception of this thread there have been a couple of who have come out with some products to help successfully integrate these LSx coils onto the miata chassis.

Sean over at SadFab's kit: http://sadfab.com/coilmounts.html

My Hawley Performance kit: https://squareup.com/store/hawleyper...il-bracket-kit

Thanks for all those that have helped contribute information to this thread. :bigtu:

You can certainly tell the type of folks who care more about helping the community than lining their pockets with $$. Especially when you link to others products as well as your own vs just your own stuff.

Every part in the reroute kit is custom made by IL, So no one else is selling these parts.

And they dont sell the parts seperate.

Hey guys, the tuner that has my car has hit a wall with spark blowout. I'm using the information @Savington posted and he's narrowed it down to spark.

He's reduced the boost a smidgen and it works fine, then he reduced the dwell by 0.1 and its on the cusp of blowout. He's unsure if he wants to push the final row in the dwell table up because he's also read on other forums that self ignition can occur as low as 4ms. He stating that because the coils have been superceded and now it's in the hands of other manufacturers (mine are Napa coils) that he can't confirm that these will autoignite at 5ms as reported with stock GM.

Is there still headroomto increase dwell at the upper rpm by 0.1-0.2? Would the battery dwell correction then need to be decreased at lower voltage? I've always seemed to run smaller gap even with Toyota COPS than what everyone reports but right now the plugs are taken down to. 020

More dwell? New coils? Blow motor?

OEM coils. No way would I chance overdwelling a D585 coil beyond the OEM dwell settings.

If you aren't on iridium plugs, that will give you some headroom right now.

If you have an oscilloscope and a shunt resistor you can test the coils to see how far they'll go.

--Ian

I don't have oscope sadly.

--Content removed to reduce misinterpretation--

I'm not on iridiums, just the regular old bkr7e.

Can you guys ELI5 what is happening with the Psyber's coils? I don't even have my motor in yet just trying to anticipate what to expect when just getting the thing running and then tuned.

.

I did not say that. My table is conservative at lower spark voltages and lower RPM where coil power doesn't really matter. It is dead nuts on at 14v above 4800rpm, where it really matters.

"I have a coil which is notorious for random discharge at higher-than-OEM dwell settings, can I safely run it at higher-than-OEM dwell settings?"

Sorry, didn't mean to spread misinformation. I'm not as great only having access to this forum on phone. My mistake as I'm trying to recall from memory, coordinate from the wrong coast, and haven't been at a computer for a week. Just trying to see if there are any quick answers I can shoot over before they pull the car off the dyno for the second time tomorrow morning. At this point I'm spark limited and will likely be looking at alternatives if replacing the coils don't help.


Also as a data point, I've had 6 AC Delco coils ended up dying, brand new, one every month, sequentially, and I had to replace them on the spot with whatever I could find locally, which was Napa Auto.

Since replacing with the Napa auto sourced coils, the car has never sounded like a subaru/run on 3 cylinders ever again. So the 'which brand coil is better' game is a bit troublesome at times. AC Delco bombing out 6 for 6.

For as awesome as d585's cracked up to be I've had quite a bit of trouble. Didn't mean to kick up dust in Sav's golden contributions but at this point I'm questioning the merits of running a "coil which is notorious for random discharge, " simply because it's easy button and in vogue.

I suppose I'm the 1% whose mileage has varied. Perhaps it's just a sign at what demons to expect when running this miata as a daily. Thanks for the responses!

Where did you buy the "AC Delco" ones? AIUI, there are a bunch of counterfeits out there in "AC Delco" boxes.

--Ian

The first four I got from Amazon when I first purchased the SADFab bracket.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BYD3Y0/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1494986744&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Ac+delco+ d585

Now after all this Timken crap and other counterfeit products on Amazon, I would half expect any auto part to be crap copies. But the two that where purchased as replacements came from CarQuest.

One coil would fail per month. First cyl 4, then 1, then 2 and 3 and randoms between. Finally they where replaced with Napa stuff and never failed. I keep an extra in the glove box just in case. But the problem is whether or not the electronics are well characterized and comparable to properly functioning oem GM/AC Delco

All else fails I'll just leave the tune where it is and just live with it. If I where to do this again I'd be interested in the AEM 30-2852/IGN 1-A mentioned previously in the thread. Just have to see if there's enough real estate on the SADFab bracket to adapt.
​​​​

​​

So you got four counterfeits, replaced them with sub-par but reliable NAPA coils, and are now running into the limits of those. Go to a junkyard and pick four coils off a Silverado. Used OEM is still OEM.

isn't acdelco oem to gm? Perhaps the four from Amazon where junk despite seller being acdelco. Do we know counterfeit parts are dealt out of other suppliers like carquest? If not why would it behave the same?
i was just happy I got to stop treating coils as consumables with my subpar but good enough for daily Napa coils that won't leave me stranded at a moments notice.

All things I'll have to deal with after I get back from San Diego after it gets unloaded tomorrow morning. Either way I lost time again on the dyno so I probably won't have it resolved till fall.

kindof counterintuitive to think the only good coils are used coils but it's worth a shot. I've already gone through a couple hundred dollars of them. Just gotta land the dream set.


I'll ask if I can work out a slot after re re replacing the coils and switching the plugs up, otherwise, this will just have to suffice for now.

thanks for input and responses
poscats issued

Just because the box says "AC Delco" on it doesn't mean they're real. Counterfeit coils come in counterfeit boxes.

If you want to be 100% sure they're genuine GM, you have to buy them from a Chevy dealer.

--Ian

Back when miata people first started using GM coils I tried out just about every cheaper aftermarket GM coil you could find. I bought them from Advance Auto, AutoZone, Napa, OReiley's, local parts place, and online. All of them were crap and I would have all sorts of issues. Now I only use OEM from a truck in a junkyard.

If a coil is purchased from a Chevy dealer does the box maybe say GM or something and the AC Delco coils are just another aftermarket choice? I recall the lower power LSx truck coils that are not d585's are made by Mitsubishi. I don't know who manufactures the d585 OEM coils but if they are using Mitsubishi to make some of the components then they aren't having Delco produce everything they use. I wouldn't assume Delco was the OEM supplier by default just because they are a subsidiary company.

This should be taglined in the outline of the thread (along with Sav's updated dwell info) . I'll do some digging on used coils and see if there are any pick and pulls in the area but sadly car gets unstrapped today.

Do any of you fine gentlemen have a spare set they are willing to part with?

Flexfuel Tahoe ones with the little heatsinks on the back, right? I have a set of completely untested greasy dirty ones from a junkyard in a plastic bag here under my desk:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1a1ca278d7.jpg

They should be OEM AFAIK.

Also:
Halcyon and I both ordered our coils from those guys some time ago. They actually know what is in their yard and ship quickly. Bonus nachos in that they'll take a credit card over the phone. Just make sure you are asking for a specific application you know to be correct, don't ask for D585s because they won't know what you are talking about. ;-)

We also sell our coils separately, if you're interested. :bigtu:

https://squareup.com/store/hawleyper...em/extra-items

Who actually makes the coils is the question. Are they OEM from GM?

Apparently the dealership notes that GM and AC Delco are two different vendors for the coils. DELPHI is listed as the OEM supplier in the notes for this round coil. The lower powered square ones are made by Mitsubishi, as noted previously.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...db2bbda904.png
. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2097b8068b.png

We only sell GM factory take-offs.

Does anyone have a part number for the connectors from NA6 Harness -> Coil harness ? I got a GM coil harness when I bought the bracket and coils from Hawley but I'm not certain how to connect the two. Or am I using the OEM coil harness connector and rewiring that with the GM coil connectors?

Your 1.6 has an ignitor. First you need to get rid of that.

You have a lot of reading to do.