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The oversized funnel i've used to burp the coolant had enough extra so you could see what was happening. The car was idling, held at 2k RPM, and revved up and down during the burping process. I stopped when the air bubbles stopped coming out and it stayed that way for a few minutes. Obviously coolant surged in and out of the funnel a little because of the tstat opening more but i'm fairly certain the head and gasket are fine. I'll certainly add it to the list of "double checks" though because this one seems to stump everyone.
I generally let the fans cycle on and off 3 or 4 times with the funnel in and the front up high. Then turn off and put on the cap, then run a few more fan cycles to make sure everything is good.
It already sounds like you are burping decently though. Ducting up front would be my next best guess. But I know I have customers running without ducting and vents and reroute without issues in hotter weather then you are dealing with.
I generally let the fans cycle on and off 3 or 4 times with the funnel in and the front up high. Then turn off and put on the cap, then run a few more fan cycles to make sure everything is good.
It already sounds like you are burping decently though. Ducting up front would be my next best guess. But I know I have customers running without ducting and vents and reroute without issues in hotter weather then you are dealing with.
I am not trying to. I really am baffled by your issue, it is outside of the norm. After testing I specifically went with this IC choice because it is what I found did not have the issues you are having. I tried a few bigger and/or nicer IC's but I could not mount them in a way to not block to much air flow and cause problems.
This is why I think something else is going on, but you have seriously hit everything that I can think of.
Reading the entire thread, I'd agree that the OP appears to have installed and set up things properly as well as done the right diagnostic tree.
Doesn't get hot when idling, no overfow: Not HG
Steady climb in temps after load then stays hot, not fluctuating: Not air in system
Fans come on when they should: Not fan wiring or control
Control gauge for temp verification: Not gauge
Someone mention tstat stuck. Despite the fear, it' is actually exceedingly rare. In the hundreds of cars we've played with here, never seen one stuck tstat. The tstat included in the Qmax is as high quality as tstats get. While not impossible to be defective, it's not likely.
Despite the ducting, sealing and venting system, the symptoms all point to inadequate airflow. Occams razor. Echoing what Lars wrote, we have also seen less dialed systems run cooler.
I'll ping John (Satisai) and see if he has any ideas.
My WAG: OEM bumper support still there. Shape of IC combined with support is entirely blocking flow to critical top of rad (hottest part of core). Bulk of available flow only hitting bottom corners of rad and possibly still a few air leaks lowering that pressure differential.
We appear to be neighbors and if so, I have one of these gizmos that we can get more confidence you got her burped as well as have a tight coolant system. If you flick me an IM, I’ll meet up with you and do it for or with you.
We appear to be neighbors and if so, I have one of these gizmos that we can get more confidence you got her burped as well as have a tight coolant system. If you flick me an IM, I’ll meet up with you and do it for or with you.
Shouldn't be needed with a Crossflow and Qmax unless he put a loop de loop in the return hose or something. In any case, air bubbles manifest as sudden wild swings in CLT, which he isn't having.
So sorry guys, the car got put on hold for a little since i've been so swamped with work and family. To catch everyone up... the oil cooler has not gone on. I've diagnosed and fixed a MASSIVELY terrible engine ground problem that i was hoping was the culprit but no. I'm now at a point where the engine components and chassis are grounded very well so that's out.
What i've noticed is that my engine temp spikes with RPM. If i drive around in 2nd or 3rd at moderate RPM it's now running cool as a cucumber. When i rev it out and let the rpms climb it spikes the temp. I can actually peg the gas at idle and watch the MS swing up and down 3-4 degrees in correlation with RPM.. as it revs higher the temp goes higher and as i release the throttle the temp falls with the falling rpm.
One of the TDR guys told me there's a semi-rare problem with certain cars in which the injector duty signal is getting picked up by the temp sensor and as duty cycle goes up, the temp sensor thinks it's getting hotter. This sounds very much like what i'm seeing but i'm not sure how to fix that. My EE friend is hopefully coming by soon to do some diagnostics on sensors and the harness to see if we can spot anything. He's a wizard with that stuff. I'll keep everyone in the loop
@Turbomack Thanks for the offer! We'll have to set something up soon. I'm trying to be as socially distant as possible since i found out I'm gonna be a dad. Prego wife = zero tolerance for the Ronas. @emilio700 would you count my situation as "sudden temp swings" even though I did not loop my hoses and bled this sucker 4 times?
Sounds like sudden temp swings. When HG goes, the temps don't come down usually. Temp swings from air bubbles come from the car moving around though. If its just parked and you get wild temp swings, that points more to sensor issue or HG that's just starting to let go.
That's my opinion though, could be something else. Curious to see what the root cause is.
I'd want to get some alternate temp readings on this now not using the car for my power source.
I'd want to know how hot the radiator was actually getting with a infrared thermometer.
I'd use the thermometer all over the cooling system.
If it was easy to do I might replace the intercooler with a pipe to eliminate the airflow restriction and retest.
Can you recreate the problem without going into boost.
Will running it around at 4500 rpm light load make it overheat?
I agree with the others...
Your stuff looks nicely done.
I don't see any obvious issues either.
The diagnostic process was correct without missing steps.
The conclusion I would come up with is radiator cannot get rid of heat as quickly as the car can make it.
Sounds like sudden temp swings. When HG goes, the temps don't come down usually. Temp swings from air bubbles come from the car moving around though. If its just parked and you get wild temp swings, that points more to sensor issue or HG that's just starting to let go.
That's my opinion though, could be something else. Curious to see what the root cause is.
When at idle it's totally fine and stable. Only when the RPMs fluctuate particularly into the higher RPM do i see the temp spike upward but as stated previously it falls just as fast as the RPMs do.
I'd want to get some alternate temp readings on this now not using the car for my power source.
I'd want to know how hot the radiator was actually getting with a infrared thermometer.
I'd use the thermometer all over the cooling system.
If it was easy to do I might replace the intercooler with a pipe to eliminate the airflow restriction and retest.
Can you recreate the problem without going into boost.
Will running it around at 4500 rpm light load make it overheat?
I agree with the others...
Your stuff looks nicely done.
I don't see any obvious issues either.
The diagnostic process was correct without missing steps.
The conclusion I would come up with is radiator cannot get rid of heat as quickly as the car can make it.
so i actually did this on my test drive today. I was driving in 2nd or 3rd holding steady 6k RPM and saw the temp sweep up quickly from the 198* I was at while cruising up to around 215* while holding the 6k. As soon as i let the revs drop and shifted to 4th or 5th the temp immediately fell back to 198
I once solved a similar sounding mysterious overheating problem using an unorthodox technique, so just humor me, and give it a shot.
I fully realize providing ideas and diagnostic info for a car without seeing or getting a feeling for it, and by solely generating ideas based on (however detailed they may be) on written forum posts is far from ideal, and I may be inadvertently misled in the process.
With my disclaimer out of the way, let's get to it.
A lot of shops have gas analyzers. I used to have one, and it was an incredibly valuable tool to have.
All you need to do is remove the radiator cap, drain/syphon some of the coolant out (or use a tight fitting funnel on the radiator neck) and get the car good and hot, hold the tip of the gas analyzer probe just inside the rad neck (or the funnel) and brap brap brap the engine as you watch the analyzer screen.
If you have any kind of exhaust gas migration to the coolant, it will definitely be apparent in the form of rising CO and HC values. (Brap braps will force a rich condition, and increase exhaust pressure to exacerbate the problem, if the problem stems form the above mentioned condition)
This test will take however long it takes to get the engine hot. You can also keep checking it as it warms up. Sometimes temperature plays a major role, because certain leaks/cracks/seepages act differently when cold or hot.
Like I said, I used this method as a last resort once, and got results.
You will not lose anything, and even if this test gives you a definite negative result, you will have crossed some of the usual suspects off your list.
(For the record, brap brap means revving and letting go of the throttle repeatedly.)
so i actually did this on my test drive today. I was driving in 2nd or 3rd holding steady 6k RPM and saw the temp sweep up quickly from the 198* I was at while cruising up to around 215* while holding the 6k. As soon as i let the revs drop and shifted to 4th or 5th the temp immediately fell back to 198
If I saw my coolant gauge needle move as quickly as the tach I would look for gremlins in the gauge and gauge wiring- possibly car central nervous system. Main feeds/grounds.
I bet your wizard friend will exterminate it...
It would also be nice to somehow verify this change is actually occurring in the engine.
Do blue tooth surface temp sensors exist?
This is an IMPORTANT question. Can you recreate these conditions with the car sitting still?
Ninja tip: When I've had really strange electrical problems, hard to diagnose crap it has almost ALWAYS been caused by the last thing done or the last person working on it.
When it goes "double headed" weird I want the history...
Your problem is almost DHW.
11-16-2020, 05:47 PM
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