Need some input on which Subaru turbo for 1.8 NB1.
02-07-2019, 12:40 PM
#1
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Need some input on which Subaru turbo for 1.8 NB1.
Hi all.
Newbie from Norway here. Car is a 1999 1.8 from California. Engine was worn out when i got it so i went down the slippery hill as I pulled the engine. Ended up with a completly machined block and cylinder head with all forged internals, arp studs etc.
Then I changed my mind and decided to stick with the 5-speed instead of getting a 6-speed for it. (I quit my job to study mechatronics, so the budget suddenly got quite small)
Stumbled across a used manifold and complete 3" exhaust. Both from Revent shop (Sturovo) for the TD04L.
Have also gathered a second hand MS2 diypnp.
The problem that i'm having is deciding on what turbo I should choose within the available stock Subaru turbos and the aftermarket ones.
A used IHI vf35 turbo in Norway is currently for sale, and this is some general info i found on wrxtuners.com:
"IHI VF35 (425cfm, 250-325whp, Bolt-On)
This is the standard equipment turbocharger used on the JDM Subaru Impreza WRX. The VF35 is similar to the VF34. It utilizes the same compressor housing and the same compressor inducer size. The differences are in the divided thrust-bearing design and the P15 exhaust housing. This allows the VF35 to spool slightly quicker than the VF34 at the cost of less top-end performance.
Expect to achieve full boost with the proper mods and a quality tune between 2800-3300rpms. 2002-2005 WRX owners will need fuel upgrades for this turbocharger and proper engine management is highly recommended for all vehicles."
And this from another thread on the same site:
"VF35 The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY."
The VF35 seems to me to be an great fit as i want full boost early, but maybe something a bit more powerful than a TD04L-13g which is the stock WRX turbo. But then again not too much torque as i don't want to break my 5-speed.
So.. do you guys have any tips for what turbo to go with? its either the VF35 or a used TD04 or TD05 or similar, because of a tight budget.
I don't know much about turbos yet so help on this one is greatly appriciated.
Newbie from Norway here. Car is a 1999 1.8 from California. Engine was worn out when i got it so i went down the slippery hill as I pulled the engine. Ended up with a completly machined block and cylinder head with all forged internals, arp studs etc.
Then I changed my mind and decided to stick with the 5-speed instead of getting a 6-speed for it. (I quit my job to study mechatronics, so the budget suddenly got quite small)
Stumbled across a used manifold and complete 3" exhaust. Both from Revent shop (Sturovo) for the TD04L.
Have also gathered a second hand MS2 diypnp.
The problem that i'm having is deciding on what turbo I should choose within the available stock Subaru turbos and the aftermarket ones.
A used IHI vf35 turbo in Norway is currently for sale, and this is some general info i found on wrxtuners.com:
"IHI VF35 (425cfm, 250-325whp, Bolt-On)
This is the standard equipment turbocharger used on the JDM Subaru Impreza WRX. The VF35 is similar to the VF34. It utilizes the same compressor housing and the same compressor inducer size. The differences are in the divided thrust-bearing design and the P15 exhaust housing. This allows the VF35 to spool slightly quicker than the VF34 at the cost of less top-end performance.
Expect to achieve full boost with the proper mods and a quality tune between 2800-3300rpms. 2002-2005 WRX owners will need fuel upgrades for this turbocharger and proper engine management is highly recommended for all vehicles."
And this from another thread on the same site:
"VF35 The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY."
The VF35 seems to me to be an great fit as i want full boost early, but maybe something a bit more powerful than a TD04L-13g which is the stock WRX turbo. But then again not too much torque as i don't want to break my 5-speed.
So.. do you guys have any tips for what turbo to go with? its either the VF35 or a used TD04 or TD05 or similar, because of a tight budget.
I don't know much about turbos yet so help on this one is greatly appriciated.
Last edited by Cake; 02-09-2019 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Correcting text colour.
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02-07-2019, 01:48 PM
#3
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There won't be a huge amount of difference between those two turbos from a practical standpoint. If budget is a primary concern I would get whichever one is cheaper. Both will make reasonable power and spool well for a street car with a 5-speed.
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02-07-2019, 05:00 PM
#5
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So the Vf35 won't be noticeble slower in spool vs the TD04? In that case the VF35 is a lot more appealing since it can supposedly make more power, so if I one day break the 5-speed I can crank the boost up and get a 6-speed. Woo.
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02-09-2019, 01:48 AM
#6
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Did some digging around and found this info on the VF35 over at the I want your spool data -thread. Doesn't it seem like the turbo builds preassure kind of slowly? or is it me that just don't understand spool data?
I have not found any other information on people with mx-5 / miata running a VF35, so any information & thoughts is appreciated.
I have not found any other information on people with mx-5 / miata running a VF35, so any information & thoughts is appreciated.
Engine: BP4W (9:1 84mm Supertechs)
Turbo: VF35
Manifold: Kraken Subaru Log
Downpipe Size/Style: 3" Custom
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" Magnaflow metal cat + Magnaflow big mufler
Intercooler Core Size: Ebay 450MM X 175MM X 65MM
Intake Manifold: Squaretop
Headwork: Home DIY P&P
Engine Management: MSLabs MS3 Basic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 98Ron, EBC, 3.636:1s
FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
0 1923.0 100.3 102.2 0.3
0.067 1934.0 100.3 102.7 0.3
0.134 1940.0 100.3 103.4 0.4
0.201 1950.0 100.3 104.2 0.6
0.27 1958.0 100.3 104.9 0.7
0.339 1967.0 100.3 105.9 0.8
0.406 1971.0 100.3 106.4 0.9
0.474 1988.0 100.3 107.4 1.0
0.541 1997.0 100.3 108.1 1.1
0.608 2006.0 100.3 108.8 1.2
0.675 2013.0 100.5 109.6 1.3
0.74 2020.0 100.4 110.3 1.4
0.808 2034.0 100.4 111.0 1.5
0.873 2043.0 100.4 112.0 1.7
0.94 2057.0 100.4 112.7 1.8
1.007 2063.0 100.4 113.5 1.9
1.074 2080.0 100.4 114.2 2.0
1.14 2081.0 100.4 114.9 2.1
1.207 2095.0 100.4 115.9 2.2
1.275 2102.0 100.4 116.9 2.4
1.342 2112.0 100.4 117.6 2.5
1.41 2130.0 100.4 118.1 2.6
1.479 2136.0 100.4 118.8 2.7
1.55 2148.0 100.4 119.6 2.8
1.617 2161.0 100.4 120.3 2.9
1.687 2172.0 100.4 121.0 3.0
1.754 2184.0 100.4 121.5 3.1
1.821 2194.0 100.4 122.5 3.2
1.887 2206.0 100.4 123.2 3.3
1.954 2215.0 100.5 123.9 3.4
2.023 2229.0 100.4 124.4 3.5
2.091 2241.0 100.4 125.4 3.6
2.16 2256.0 100.4 125.9 3.7
2.228 2268.0 100.4 126.6 3.8
2.296 2280.0 100.4 127.2 3.9
2.363 2291.0 100.4 128.1 4.0
2.431 2293.0 100.4 128.6 4.1
2.496 2317.0 100.4 129.4 4.2
2.564 2328.0 100.4 130.1 4.3
2.631 2336.0 100.4 130.8 4.4
2.699 2352.0 100.4 131.6 4.5
2.767 2357.0 100.3 132.3 4.6
2.831 2375.0 100.3 133.5 4.8
2.899 2386.0 100.3 134.0 4.9
2.967 2403.0 100.3 134.7 5.0
3.034 2415.0 100.3 135.5 5.1
3.099 2429.0 100.3 136.1 5.2
3.167 2439.0 100.3 137.4 5.4
3.234 2451.0 100.3 137.9 5.4
3.302 2472.0 100.3 138.9 5.6
3.371 2480.0 100.3 139.6 5.7
3.438 2499.0 100.3 140.3 5.8
3.506 2508.0 100.3 141.6 6.0
3.575 2527.0 100.3 142.0 6.0
3.643 2534.0 100.3 143.0 6.2
3.711 2559.0 100.3 144.0 6.3
3.778 2571.0 100.3 144.7 6.4
3.845 2589.0 100.3 145.7 6.6
3.913 2595.0 100.3 146.5 6.7
3.98 2605.0 100.3 147.7 6.9
4.047 2622.0 100.3 148.4 7.0
4.114 2648.0 100.3 150.1 7.2
4.181 2655.0 100.3 150.3 7.2
4.248 2681.0 100.3 152.1 7.5
4.316 2680.0 100.3 152.8 7.6
4.383 2703.0 100.3 154.5 7.8
4.451 2722.0 100.3 155.0 7.9
4.518 2732.0 100.3 156.7 8.2
4.585 2760.0 100.3 157.7 8.3
4.652 2759.0 100.3 159.4 8.6
4.719 2794.0 100.5 160.9 8.8
4.786 2787.0 100.4 162.6 9.0
4.854 2832.0 100.4 163.6 9.2
4.92 2826.0 100.4 165.2 9.4
4.987 2868.0 100.4 166.7 9.6
5.055 2855.0 100.4 168.0 9.8
5.121 2894.0 100.4 169.7 10.0
5.19 2902.0 100.4 171.4 10.3
5.257 2924.0 100.4 172.8 10.5
5.324 2947.0 100.4 175.0 10.8
5.391 2965.0 100.4 176.8 11.1
5.458 2978.0 100.4 178.7 11.4
5.526 3008.0 100.4 181.4 11.7
5.593 3008.0 100.4 183.4 12.0
5.661 3039.0 100.4 185.6 12.4
5.728 3058.0 100.4 187.8 12.7
5.795 3086.0 100.4 190.9 13.1
5.862 3096.0 100.4 193.8 13.5
5.929 3133.0 100.4 196.3 13.9
5.997 3140.0 100.5 199.7 14.4
6.067 3172.0 100.5 202.4 14.8
6.134 3194.0 100.4 205.8 15.3
6.203 3212.0 100.4 209.4 15.8
6.268 3255.0 100.4 211.5 16.1
6.335 3271.0 100.4 214.1 16.5
6.402 3313.0 100.4 214.9 16.6
6.47 3335.0 100.4 215.3 16.7
5th Gear Boost Response:
@3500RPM
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.27 3448 12.6 70.2 -4.3
-0.20 3456 17 80.9 -2.8
-0.13 3485 32 101.3 0.2
-0.07 3476 57.9 109.6 1.4
0.00 3480 100 113 1.9
0.07 3489 100 116.4 2.4
0.13 3496 100 120.6 3.0
0.20 3505 100 124.6 3.6
0.27 3521 100 129.1 4.2
0.34 3530 100 133.7 4.9
0.40 3540 100 138.1 5.5
0.47 3555 100 143.2 6.3
0.54 3570 100 147.8 6.9
0.60 3581 100 153.2 7.7
0.67 3599 100 158.4 8.5
0.74 3622 100 163.7 9.2
0.81 3636 100 169.4 10.1
0.87 3645 100 175.9 11.0
0.94 3668 100 181.6 11.8
1.01 3681 100 187.3 12.7
1.07 3701 100 192.9 13.5
@4500RPM
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.20 4450 15.5 75.5 -3.6
-0.13 4454 23.4 96.5 -0.5
-0.07 4521 89.4 116.5 2.4
0.00 4475 100 126.4 3.8
0.07 4523 100 138.5 5.6
0.13 4516 100 151.3 7.4
0.20 4552 100 167.8 9.8
0.27 4561 100 186 12.5
0.34 4594 100 200.6 14.6
0.40 4611 100 208.7 15.8
0.47 4636 100 213.4 16.4 Boost Target
Engine is still on break in oil and process and still need some adjustments to do in the overall map.
Turbo: VF35
Manifold: Kraken Subaru Log
Downpipe Size/Style: 3" Custom
Exhaust Size: 3"
Exhaust Components: 3" Magnaflow metal cat + Magnaflow big mufler
Intercooler Core Size: Ebay 450MM X 175MM X 65MM
Intake Manifold: Squaretop
Headwork: Home DIY P&P
Engine Management: MSLabs MS3 Basic
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: 98Ron, EBC, 3.636:1s
FIFTH GEAR PULL: (equivalent of a 4th gear pull in a 5-speed car)
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
0 1923.0 100.3 102.2 0.3
0.067 1934.0 100.3 102.7 0.3
0.134 1940.0 100.3 103.4 0.4
0.201 1950.0 100.3 104.2 0.6
0.27 1958.0 100.3 104.9 0.7
0.339 1967.0 100.3 105.9 0.8
0.406 1971.0 100.3 106.4 0.9
0.474 1988.0 100.3 107.4 1.0
0.541 1997.0 100.3 108.1 1.1
0.608 2006.0 100.3 108.8 1.2
0.675 2013.0 100.5 109.6 1.3
0.74 2020.0 100.4 110.3 1.4
0.808 2034.0 100.4 111.0 1.5
0.873 2043.0 100.4 112.0 1.7
0.94 2057.0 100.4 112.7 1.8
1.007 2063.0 100.4 113.5 1.9
1.074 2080.0 100.4 114.2 2.0
1.14 2081.0 100.4 114.9 2.1
1.207 2095.0 100.4 115.9 2.2
1.275 2102.0 100.4 116.9 2.4
1.342 2112.0 100.4 117.6 2.5
1.41 2130.0 100.4 118.1 2.6
1.479 2136.0 100.4 118.8 2.7
1.55 2148.0 100.4 119.6 2.8
1.617 2161.0 100.4 120.3 2.9
1.687 2172.0 100.4 121.0 3.0
1.754 2184.0 100.4 121.5 3.1
1.821 2194.0 100.4 122.5 3.2
1.887 2206.0 100.4 123.2 3.3
1.954 2215.0 100.5 123.9 3.4
2.023 2229.0 100.4 124.4 3.5
2.091 2241.0 100.4 125.4 3.6
2.16 2256.0 100.4 125.9 3.7
2.228 2268.0 100.4 126.6 3.8
2.296 2280.0 100.4 127.2 3.9
2.363 2291.0 100.4 128.1 4.0
2.431 2293.0 100.4 128.6 4.1
2.496 2317.0 100.4 129.4 4.2
2.564 2328.0 100.4 130.1 4.3
2.631 2336.0 100.4 130.8 4.4
2.699 2352.0 100.4 131.6 4.5
2.767 2357.0 100.3 132.3 4.6
2.831 2375.0 100.3 133.5 4.8
2.899 2386.0 100.3 134.0 4.9
2.967 2403.0 100.3 134.7 5.0
3.034 2415.0 100.3 135.5 5.1
3.099 2429.0 100.3 136.1 5.2
3.167 2439.0 100.3 137.4 5.4
3.234 2451.0 100.3 137.9 5.4
3.302 2472.0 100.3 138.9 5.6
3.371 2480.0 100.3 139.6 5.7
3.438 2499.0 100.3 140.3 5.8
3.506 2508.0 100.3 141.6 6.0
3.575 2527.0 100.3 142.0 6.0
3.643 2534.0 100.3 143.0 6.2
3.711 2559.0 100.3 144.0 6.3
3.778 2571.0 100.3 144.7 6.4
3.845 2589.0 100.3 145.7 6.6
3.913 2595.0 100.3 146.5 6.7
3.98 2605.0 100.3 147.7 6.9
4.047 2622.0 100.3 148.4 7.0
4.114 2648.0 100.3 150.1 7.2
4.181 2655.0 100.3 150.3 7.2
4.248 2681.0 100.3 152.1 7.5
4.316 2680.0 100.3 152.8 7.6
4.383 2703.0 100.3 154.5 7.8
4.451 2722.0 100.3 155.0 7.9
4.518 2732.0 100.3 156.7 8.2
4.585 2760.0 100.3 157.7 8.3
4.652 2759.0 100.3 159.4 8.6
4.719 2794.0 100.5 160.9 8.8
4.786 2787.0 100.4 162.6 9.0
4.854 2832.0 100.4 163.6 9.2
4.92 2826.0 100.4 165.2 9.4
4.987 2868.0 100.4 166.7 9.6
5.055 2855.0 100.4 168.0 9.8
5.121 2894.0 100.4 169.7 10.0
5.19 2902.0 100.4 171.4 10.3
5.257 2924.0 100.4 172.8 10.5
5.324 2947.0 100.4 175.0 10.8
5.391 2965.0 100.4 176.8 11.1
5.458 2978.0 100.4 178.7 11.4
5.526 3008.0 100.4 181.4 11.7
5.593 3008.0 100.4 183.4 12.0
5.661 3039.0 100.4 185.6 12.4
5.728 3058.0 100.4 187.8 12.7
5.795 3086.0 100.4 190.9 13.1
5.862 3096.0 100.4 193.8 13.5
5.929 3133.0 100.4 196.3 13.9
5.997 3140.0 100.5 199.7 14.4
6.067 3172.0 100.5 202.4 14.8
6.134 3194.0 100.4 205.8 15.3
6.203 3212.0 100.4 209.4 15.8
6.268 3255.0 100.4 211.5 16.1
6.335 3271.0 100.4 214.1 16.5
6.402 3313.0 100.4 214.9 16.6
6.47 3335.0 100.4 215.3 16.7
5th Gear Boost Response:
@3500RPM
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.27 3448 12.6 70.2 -4.3
-0.20 3456 17 80.9 -2.8
-0.13 3485 32 101.3 0.2
-0.07 3476 57.9 109.6 1.4
0.00 3480 100 113 1.9
0.07 3489 100 116.4 2.4
0.13 3496 100 120.6 3.0
0.20 3505 100 124.6 3.6
0.27 3521 100 129.1 4.2
0.34 3530 100 133.7 4.9
0.40 3540 100 138.1 5.5
0.47 3555 100 143.2 6.3
0.54 3570 100 147.8 6.9
0.60 3581 100 153.2 7.7
0.67 3599 100 158.4 8.5
0.74 3622 100 163.7 9.2
0.81 3636 100 169.4 10.1
0.87 3645 100 175.9 11.0
0.94 3668 100 181.6 11.8
1.01 3681 100 187.3 12.7
1.07 3701 100 192.9 13.5
@4500RPM
Time RPM TPS MAP Boost
s RPM % kPa psi
-0.20 4450 15.5 75.5 -3.6
-0.13 4454 23.4 96.5 -0.5
-0.07 4521 89.4 116.5 2.4
0.00 4475 100 126.4 3.8
0.07 4523 100 138.5 5.6
0.13 4516 100 151.3 7.4
0.20 4552 100 167.8 9.8
0.27 4561 100 186 12.5
0.34 4594 100 200.6 14.6
0.40 4611 100 208.7 15.8
0.47 4636 100 213.4 16.4 Boost Target
Engine is still on break in oil and process and still need some adjustments to do in the overall map.
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02-09-2019, 08:06 AM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Eindhoven, The netherlands
Posts: 197
Total Cats: 19
This was on my old TD04l 13t on a 1.8
4th Gear
RPM PSI
2197 -2.1
2278 2.2
2399 4.1
2504 6.0
2618 7.8
2732 10.1
2834 12.4
2918 14.4
Second run also 4th gear
2069 0.1
2137 2.1
2229 4.2
2409 6.6
2508 8.0
2602 10.0
2730 12.0
2834 14.6
2947 16.8
RPM PSI
2197 -2.1
2278 2.2
2399 4.1
2504 6.0
2618 7.8
2732 10.1
2834 12.4
2918 14.4
Second run also 4th gear
2069 0.1
2137 2.1
2229 4.2
2409 6.6
2508 8.0
2602 10.0
2730 12.0
2834 14.6
2947 16.8
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02-09-2019, 10:34 AM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 204
Total Cats: 29
It is not far off from a TD04L, probably 300-400 rpm at maximum.
I would not take the numbers too seriously as there are many factors at play: tuning (AFRs, ignition advance, EBC settings) and also mechanical differences.
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02-09-2019, 10:49 PM
#11
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2600 versus 2900 for 10psi, and the larger one is pushing more volume at 10psi (more tq and hp). So, no actual perceived difference in spool when driving and both will max out a stock rod motor or 5 speed, one with a little more headroom.
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02-11-2019, 05:07 AM
#12
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Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 27
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Great. I went with the VF. Thanks for the explanation.
Really looking forward to getting everything installed. Too bad it wont be untill mid summer or autumn, as I still need to get some more parts and are really tight on spare time (and cash) at the moment.
Really looking forward to getting everything installed. Too bad it wont be untill mid summer or autumn, as I still need to get some more parts and are really tight on spare time (and cash) at the moment.
Last edited by Cake; 02-11-2019 at 06:10 AM.
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04-21-2020, 04:35 AM
#15
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Hi, Manners226. Sorry for the late reply.
I´ve finally gathered basicly all the parts needed for the build, but sadly the turbo conversion have still not begun. I´m hoping i´ll find time for it this summer because of the COVID-19 is shutting the entire world down.
I can give some hints on where the build is going. This is the parts i´ve gathered up the last three years:-IHI VF-35 turbo (used)
-Sturovo/ReventShop manifold and 3" downpipe. (used)
-3" full exhaust (unsure of manufacturer) (used)
-Wiseco pistons
-Manley rods
-ARP head studs and main studs
-Skunk2 intake manifold
-Skunk2 Trottle body
-FM happy meal clutch kit, stage 2 with lightned flywheel
-ID1000 injectors
-ATI harmonic balancer
-Boundary Engineering billet oil pump (pump version: street pump, 0 shims)
-fab9 intercooler stage 1 (350hp version)
-Ebay intercooler piping
-Megasquirt MS2 DIY (With an alternator board from ebay to let the car charge)
I´m also mounting Elise Probax seats and some other snacks.
If someone is interested, I´ll make a build thread! Also. I´m wrapping the miata in a kind of gunmetal grey color. I can post a timelapse of it when it´s done.
I´ve finally gathered basicly all the parts needed for the build, but sadly the turbo conversion have still not begun. I´m hoping i´ll find time for it this summer because of the COVID-19 is shutting the entire world down.
I can give some hints on where the build is going. This is the parts i´ve gathered up the last three years:-IHI VF-35 turbo (used)
-Sturovo/ReventShop manifold and 3" downpipe. (used)
-3" full exhaust (unsure of manufacturer) (used)
-Wiseco pistons
-Manley rods
-ARP head studs and main studs
-Skunk2 intake manifold
-Skunk2 Trottle body
-FM happy meal clutch kit, stage 2 with lightned flywheel
-ID1000 injectors
-ATI harmonic balancer
-Boundary Engineering billet oil pump (pump version: street pump, 0 shims)
-fab9 intercooler stage 1 (350hp version)
-Ebay intercooler piping
-Megasquirt MS2 DIY (With an alternator board from ebay to let the car charge)
I´m also mounting Elise Probax seats and some other snacks.
If someone is interested, I´ll make a build thread! Also. I´m wrapping the miata in a kind of gunmetal grey color. I can post a timelapse of it when it´s done.
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