DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?
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NEW EFR?

 
Old 02-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
On that car, to me the powerband is perfect, and it felt fantastic. I likely wouldn't move anything around at all. It's great for street, track, you name it.

However, if I didn't have a built engine, and wasn't planning to make over 300, I'd probably get me the even smaller EFR and enjoy even more lowend thrust and snappier response (if that's even possible, lol, the 6258 already shines at both those things.....we shall see of course).
Nice!
Seems like the perfect combination. Definitely a lot on the street.
I could see wanting a smaller turbo if you put lots of miles on it!
Is your car really 2550 pounds as the dyno sheet says?
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:13 AM
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That was godons car that I tuned. (EO2K)
An nb is 2350+200 delta (what I weigh).
You have to plug in the full weight for VD to calculate accurately
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:41 AM
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Ah! That makes sense. Will look up his build!

What are people doing for boost control on the internal gate EFR...I read about lots of difficulties there?
I was looking at the 2 port Turbo Smart, but I saw this
Evasive Motorsports PH: 626.336.3400 Mon-Fri, 9am-6pm PST: BorgWarner EFR Dual Port Internal-WG actuator

Any thoughts?
Jamie
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:10 AM
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The EFR5951 looks promising for the future, I'd expect TSE kits to sell like hawt cakes when packaged together. I'm very interested... VERY very interested to see what this new baby trubo can do. Gives me all the more reason to ditch this 2860 setup


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Old 02-20-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
What are people doing for boost control on the internal gate EFR...I read about lots of difficulties there?
Have you called and spoken with me yet? I could clear up a lot of your misconceptions in a ~20 minute call.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
Ah! That makes sense. Will look up his build!

What are people doing for boost control on the internal gate EFR...I read about lots of difficulties there?
I was looking at the 2 port Turbo Smart, but I saw this
Evasive Motorsports PH: 626.336.3400 Mon-Fri, 9am-6pm PST: BorgWarner EFR Dual Port Internal-WG actuator

Any thoughts?
Jamie

What difficulties? Mines been running fine for a couple years.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
Not trying to frustrate you, rather trying to sort out which way to point my horsepower hungry son....Who is too inexperienced to realize there is more to a build than a big horsepower number
Horsepower is just a number, and this worries me a little bit... I'll cover this some more at the end of this post.

Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
On that car, to me the powerband is perfect, and it felt fantastic. I likely wouldn't move anything around at all. It's great for street, track, you name it.
Its god damn amazing, It's like nothing I've ever driven. Seriously. We need to figure out how to get it on v1.4.x along with the 4 port MAC and the dual port Turbosmart WGA so I can play with closed loop, boost by gear, MS-based traction control, etc.

Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
If you look at 18PSI's build and its boost table, you can see that he is all the way down to 16 or 17 psi at the HP peak.
IIRC that is 8 pounds down from 99MX5s. There is a fair bit more left on tap and the bottom end/mid range would be a different level.
In all fairness you can't look at that build and compare it to 99MX5. Well, you can, but you are missing a critical component to the formula. One of those BPs is not like the other. One of those engines has $3k worth of cylinder head sitting on top of it. Boost is nothing more than a measure of resistance in the system and that specific engine makes that kind of power with 8psi less boost because it flows that much more air. Seriously. It is both a good and a bad thing.

Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
More boost 18PSI!!
Let her rip! You know you want to!
Um, no. I'll touch more on that in a second.

Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That was godons car that I tuned. (EO2K)
Yep, that's my car!

Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
Ah! That makes sense. Will look up his build!
Link is in my sig. You've been warned.

Originally Posted by nbfather View Post
What are people doing for boost control on the internal gate EFR...I read about lots of difficulties there?
I had a problem with the internal wastegate, but that's because I'm an idiot. It works flawlessly now. I also had a problem with the GM style 2 port EBC that was included with EFR, but I've ditched it in favor of a MAC valve and all is well. 18psi's comment about the weak actuator is because I pulled the "MEDIUM" actuator off my turbo and installed the "LOW" actuator. It makes the tuning a little weird, but lets me run less boost, and that's OK on my ridiculously flowing head.



Ok, I feel I need to address something real quick that I'm pretty sure no one has mentioned yet. Jamie, I don't know you or your son, and as such I say this with all the respect in the world, but I think you are overlooking something serious here: all hyperbole aside, a 300+HP Miata is a god damn death machine in the wrong hands. Have you driven a 300HP Miata? How about 250HP? Or even 200HP? I would strongly encourage you to do so before you get too far into this. This is not a Corvette, or a new Mustang, or a Camero, It is a radically different experience. I come from a long line of overpowered rear wheel drive V8 cars so I have had more than a decade of driving experience with tail happy beasts and my car is seriously intimidating. I've got enough fuel that I could safely run ALLOFIT on CA **** 91 with the EFR 6258 but I have to tell you, I have no desire to find out what the limits of the fuel system are, because I've reached the limits of my skill. On street tires, traction is merely the fever dream of a madman in 1st and 2nd if you are not paying attention, and at any time I can put my foot in the throttle in 3rd and 4th and the tires sublimate directly from solid to vapor state before I can even think about it. While that sounds like fun, its seriously dangerous as ****. Driving my car in anger has a tendency to convert that rage directly into a healthy respect or even fear. Like I said, I don't know you or your son, and I don't know his skill level or driving history, but I would not, under any circumstances put say, a 20 year old kid behind the wheel of my car. I would not expect them or the car to last long.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:46 PM
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Take a Corvette C6 Z06, put it on a 245mm wide tire, and take 16" out of the wheelbase. That's what you are building when you put a 300whp Miata together.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:45 PM
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And his car has the 3.6FD and NT01's
With a 4.30 it would likely spin 5th lol
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:20 PM
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^^ Truth.

Someone with more smarts than me should take the coefficient of friction for an NB with a hard top, and calculate the maximum speed attainable with 300hp, 6 speed and 3.63 Maybe I can go do the Texas Mile, or visit Bonneville. Hah!

2017 World of Speed is in September this year, I can maybe have the car working by then.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
^^ Truth.

Someone with more smarts than me should take the coefficient of friction for an NB with a hard top, and calculate the maximum speed attainable with 300hp, 6 speed and 3.63 Maybe I can go do the Texas Mile, or visit Bonneville. Hah!

2017 World of Speed is in September this year, I can maybe have the car working by then.


CD is 0.36 with soft top, so guessed 0.35.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:34 PM
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Brb, need new speedo...
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Brb, need new speedo...
Just ran the gearing numbers. With a 6 speed and 3.636 rear, you would need to spin the engine at 8400rpm.

Get a GPS speedo. At those speeds, I bet the tires expand a bit, making a regular one read low. :P
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
Just ran the gearing numbers. With a 6 speed and 3.636 rear, you would need to spin the engine at 8400rpm.
Supertech heavy doubles should be able to do 8400rpm sustained, ayyyyy?
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
Get a GPS speedo. At those speeds, I bet the tires expand a bit, making a regular one read low. :P
Oddly enough, tire deflection ends up making the tire shorter, at least in the 140-150mph neighborhood. Maybe 180+ would change that, but the data I have says you need about 6% more RPM than you think you do to reach a gear-calculated speed.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:23 PM
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The EFR internal gate gave me fits too. My problem ended up being a combo of needing to clock the CHARA a little and also needing to bend the wastegate mount in order to get it to move freely through the whole range. I didnt feel like having to fight with it again to nudge and tickle it to be just so for my next setup and the EWG only IRL 7163s came about at just the right time so I went that way. I'm sure TSE checks each one for alignment before it goes out the door on their kits.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Oddly enough, tire deflection ends up making the tire shorter, at least in the 140-150mph neighborhood. Maybe 180+ would change that, but the data I have says you need about 6% more RPM than you think you do to reach a gear-calculated speed.
Actually, that makes sense thinking about it. The amount of torque being applied just to over come the drag probably rotates the rim ahead of the outside edge of the tire. Something like a wrinckle wall drag tire.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I'm sure TSE checks each one for alignment before it goes out the door on their kits.
I don't, yet. I was thinking about it last week after the chat in Aidan's thread. I would have to add something to the cost of each kit due to the time it would take, but I'll probably start doing it.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
Actually, that makes sense thinking about it. The amount of torque being applied just to over come the drag probably rotates the rim ahead of the outside edge of the tire. Something like a wrinckle wall drag tire.
Could be, but that would surprise me since it's a radial tire. It's a substantial reduction, over an inch of circumference loss IIRC. I don't actually have a good theory for why the GPS speeds are lower than the calculated speeds, but I do have a bunch of repeatable data that shows it to be true
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I don't, yet. I was thinking about it last week after the chat in Aidan's thread. I would have to add something to the cost of each kit due to the time it would take, but I'll probably start doing it.
If you already clock the turbos you wont be adding much time. A gauge would be pretty simple, a block with 2 pins the major diameter and spacing of the actuator studs and 1 long pin with a little play in it to the block and just slide the flapper through its motion over it.
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