New Member: TunerToys
 

Hey Folks,

Just joined, and though I would post up an introduction.

We've been supplying the Honda DIY Turbocharging community for about five years now, and are beginning to look at other vehicles that we can expand our product line with. Having been a ragtop guy for some years, and also dabbling in a little Solo2, I thought we might take a look at the Miata world.

Thanks to magnamx-5 for directing me to the DIY FAQ, I am getting up to speed on the kinds of obstacles and solutions you folks are dealing with. I hope that we can create/find/supply some products that you guys need, as that would really help me justify purchasing an "R&D" Miata for the company. :)

BTW we are the company that manufacturers the block fitting you guys have pictured in the oil supply section of the DIY FAQ, here -

http://www.rev2red.com/images/cars/faq/oilsender.jpg.

This is a fitting we made for the Honda guys who wanted to tee from the oil sender port on the block. We made the fitting with the proper male 1/8BSPT threads on one end to engage the engine block oil port correctly, and the same female threads on the opposite end to provide a place to re-install the factory sensor. Two side ports are 1/8NPT, so that fittings commonly available in the US can be used to plumb the oil feed line to the turbo. Glad to see this fitting works for the Mazda guys as well.

Anyway, please bear with me as I come up to speed on Miata Turbocharging. I'll try not to ask too many noob questions.

Craig @ Tuner Toys

Awesome! More products directed toward miata turbochargeing is always a good thing. Are there certen products you guys specalize in? Like fittings, etc. Where are you guys located?

Whats up Craig. I've bought a bunch of kits from you over the past few years. Always excellent. Running a kit of my Miata right now. Also, Hotrex has Herpes.

Edit: Miata's need some TT Rods.

Although we carry everything from Garrett Turbos, to SRP Pistons, our specialty has always been creating the flanges and fittings that the average guy needs to get a turb installed on his car. These were initially geared towards Honda guys, but a lot of the products will work for the Miata guys as well.

Some of our specialty products include flanges for turbo oil drains. These adapt the drain flange to NPT threads, or to AN fittings. They make it easier to plumb the oil drain, by converting the proprietary connection to a more commonly used style.

Othe items include vacuum manifolds, turbo oil supply fittings, and even complete oil line kits. We'll be developing both version of oil line kits for the Miatas here shortly.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Craig

A complete oil line kit would be fantastic if you could price it right. That was one of the larger headaches of assembling my setup.

We've done it for three different types of turbos on Honda engines. Since the oil feed is the same for some of the Miatas, it will easily translate. Shouldn't be too hard to put together a kit for the OEM style feed location as well.

Craig

I could use a vacuum manifold..

:edit: Saw it on your site, PM sent with some questions. :)

A complete drainline solution for the Greddy kits would be cherry. :)

damn and to think i was half way mean to you guys :D oh well yeah your stuff looks real good and i agree a universal line kit would be a good idea cause 90% of us have a distance of +-3-4 inches difference in where our turbo is and that is easily fixable by just shooting for the long end. I wonder if you guys are gonna maybe market a nice daul feed fuel rail? This still looks promising though and i am glad you read the FAQ so few do. but then agian it is abit more comprehensive than most of the faqs you see on other sites GL man.

Cheap dual feed rail ftw. Preferably threaded so the user can choose his fitting type.

+1

GReddy drain line +1

And when you do that you will likely have my money :bigtu: Welcome aboard!!!!

Werd

Hey Guys, My post count is not yet 10, so I am answering your PMs here.

ApexOnYou, - The vacuum manifolds are now being made in anodized black, with gray engraving, perfect for keeping the engine bay quiet. We just haven't updated the pictures yet. The two inlets are 1/4NPT, while the five outlets are 1/8NPT. Fittings are not included at the current price, but will be available separately. For now, we can throw in a fittings kit for you. Just hit us up with an email once you order (sales@tunertoys.com), and remind us that we need to throw in a free set of fittings with your order. I only ask that you take pics and post up your review of the product.

firedog25 - So for the Greddy Drain line kit, what are it's current short-commings? From reading the FAQ, it appears that a standard -10 based drain line kit would be easy enough to make. The Miata uses a cast aluminum pan, correct? Do all years use the cast aluminum, or are some stamped steel? We already have a pretty good solution for cast pans, with a bolt on -10AN Male flange for the pan, -10AN male drain flange for the turbo, and standard AN fittings and hose for in between. We'd just need to know the length of the drain line to supply in the kit. We'd be happy to put together a handful of prototyped kits for some folks to try out and report back on.

magnamx-5 - Thanks for the FAQ, finished the first read today, and then went back to review a couple of items. A great bit of writing there! You mentioned the length of drain line. Since we don't have a project car started yet :), what would the range of lengths be for the drain line? We'll also need to know the shortest distance, to be sure that the AN fittings will have clearance. We'll look into the fuel rail (are there any companies currently makeing them?). Don't worry about being "half way mean"...I expect a little hazing as a newb. :)

neogenesis2004, cardriverx & sbrian2 - If you would send us some PMs with any current fuel rails out there, and what you don't like about them. If we can make a better product, we'll put some energy into developing them.

Thanks Guys!

Craig

Flyin Miata is one of the only making fuel rails right now and what we dont like is the price!

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...550%20%2090-93

Fuel rails should be made of extruded aluminum rail stock, should be fed from each end and the NB models should have the quick snap type fitting on one end so i can pull my rail and just snap it on to my current metal fuel line versus messing with hoseclamps. Stainless braid line.
Cheap as possible. We all know the extruded aluminum can be had for less than $8 a foot and all you do is drill holes for the injectors, tap the ends for AN fittings and build lines to fit. I refuse to pay over $100 for something like that.

Amen brother! My only problem with the current offering is also price.

Yep. $219 for that is pretty steep. What about the rails available from **********? At $139, they are quite a bit cheaper than the FM version. They are certainly not as "pretty" as the FM rail, but does anyone have any experience with them?

Craig

From who :P

Did I mention someone I was not supposed to and got edited?

maybe it auto-edited it?

Anywho...welcome.

Who is the retailer, make it spaced out or something with dashes. Anything.

He is talking about j i m b....iotch

hahahahahahah i thought it might be him they were talking about.

No one has been able to talk to him for a while from what i under stand. I think my drain line was aroun 18 or so inches, Braineack would be the one to ask about the greddy line length. But i don't think there are many that sit the turbo higher than mine and the closest would probably be some where around a foot or so. Feed line for the 1.6 was fine at 2 ft and had plenty of slack for my routing on the 16g kit. I would suspect the Gredy kit to be similiar if not a litle smaller. And FWIW try to bold the word in one or two letters to bypas the filter JimB

Yep, that's who I was referring to. Business tactics aside, was his fairly simple design sufficient to provide the fuel you guys need? It seems rather simplistic with all the brass fittings, but if it worked....

Craig

Our stock fuel rail is supposedly good enough for most applications. The thing most people want is a quality dual feed rail with AN fittings. Which means, no JB weld. They're not willing to pay much for it though so cheap is a huge priority.

So it's sounding like a 2ft feed line, and maybe supply 2ft of drain line as well. We already know that our block fitting works in the Mazda block, so all that is left is to determine what drain flange and oil inlet type you guys need for the different turbos you run. For the drain flange on the GReddy, what is the spacing of the mounting bolts? We already have flanges with spacing of 38, 44, and 50.8mm. Will one of these work? For the inlets, we have 1/8NPT, 7/16-24 Inverted Flare, and one or two metric choices. Will any of these work for the oil inlet on the GReddy turbo?

Craig

How much for the oil sender T and whats the thread for the feed line?

I think 7/16-24 is the fitting on many garretts, i know for certain its the fitting on my Nissan T25 Garrett.

You seem to be a bit confused about feed lines.

The 1.6 miata has a feed port on the exhaust side and only requires a couple feed of feed line. They do not utilize your feed block on the 1.6 because of this.
Some of the 94 1.8s have the same fitting, but that was only for like half of the production year.
The rest of the 1.8s have two options for oil feed. They can use your fitting or a sandwich plate. Both of which have to be used on the intake side and require a much longer feed line. More like 40" though i don't remember exactly how long.
The drain lines should be a universal 2' so people can cut to length. The oil pan fitting should be a threaded fitting that screws into a 1/2" NPT tapped hole in the oil pan. Your bolt on flange is going to be to much trouble. No one here takes their pan off for their oil drain unless they're "special". You should include the appropriate drain flange at the turbo though.

5/8 inch flare on the turbo, 5/8 hose, 5/8 inch flare to 1/2 inch npt on the pan.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS
Something like this but not for 29.00 dollars, that just makes baby jesus cry.

Cheap and simple.

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up.

Sounds like we should do two kits. One for the feed port on the exhaust side of the 1.6 (2ft, and fitting for the port), and another for the oil sender style 1.8 (4ft, and the block fitting). Both kits can use the same type of drain line solution.

Question - How do folks tap their pans without taking it off the vehicle? I'd be concerned about chips falling into the pan during the tapping process.

What about mounting provisions for the OEM regulator? Are these required, or will most people be using an external or remote mounted FPR? If we duplicate the factory mount, folks could still upgrade to the Synapse style of FPR.

The block fitting is here - http://tunertoys.zoovy.com/product/O...al_Outlet.html and it's $21.

We normally use -3 AN steel lines for the feed portion of the kits. Each kit includes a 1/8NPT to -3 fitting for the block adapter, and then an adapter from -3 to whatever the turbo oil inlet uses.

Craig

Most people are concerned but it works out pretty well we just run a drill up in there run a tap in it and then rinse it out with some mineral spirits and install fittings and oil and we are good to go. Given that to pull the pan on these cars you need to pull the motor or front subframe it is the only way 90% of us have of doing it. Our pans are thick aluminum anyway and we have good baffels and screens to help keep any left overs out of the bearings etc. A oe regulator type port would be a good idea as alot of us just run a regulator to jack up the pressure and use the stocker to maintane idle and non boost pressure. And then there is the rest of us who run the oe regulator and larger injectors.

Sam i am hoping this is going to be a teflon inner non rubber what so ever hose solution not a slip on afair what you have pictured there from atp is for cheap rubber crap that you replace every year.

Sweeeeeeeeeet. I was looking for this.

Installing my TunerToys oil line kit was the easiest part of my Miata's turbo install. Personally, I just used the standard 14b feed/drain kit. Everything works perfect - not the slightest sign of any leak and I don't have to run an oil restrictor because of the -3AN size line. The steel block adapters are very nice pieces.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've run TT oil line kits on my past 5 turbo'ed cars and I've never had a single problem. I always suggest them to friends and they've never had any sort of problems either. On top of that customer service is top notch.

One thing that may need to be tested is is the larger "real' oil pressure sending units will work with the block fitting. From what I've heard they are a bit larger than the on/off units.

You screw the OPG sending unit in the end port. Fits like a charm, i use a big VDO sending unit.

My HKS manifold "probably" sits the turbo the highest of them all. 18" of -10AN worked, but it is also using the all the AN fittings which add an inch or two.

Ditto, same manifold using AN press on fittings.

How thick are the pans? At 1/2NPT there are 14 threads per inch. If the pan is 1/4 thick, then there will only be 3.5 threads after tapping. Is this enough to create a good seal and hold the fitting securely?

If so, then we can easilly do a kit for this. We can offer two levels, one that uses hydrocarbon safe rubber, and one that uses a teflon lined AN solution.

With removing the pan being so difficult, I can see why this type of solution would be desired. What about a weld on 1/2NPT bung? Most shadtree guys don't have the capability to weld aluminum, so this would have to be done at a shop. It would really complicate the install, but it would be a very robust connection.

A lot of the Honda guys thread teh 1/2NPT fitting into the stamped pans, and then JB Weld it to keep it secure. This scares me personally, but I have never had a reported failure.

Craig

The pan is about 1/4" thick, so you are right on the number of threads engaged. We also use JB weld on the threads to seal and secure the fitting.

I'd say almost 100% of us tap the pan and follow it up with jb weld because of the difficulty in removing the pan. It holds up perfectly fine though as long as everything is cleaned properly beforehand.

Shit to take off my old hose barb fitting when assembling my new motor it took over 100ftlb of tq to break the jb weld holding it. I just put in the new 45deg an fitting and used jb weld again. Its ghetto, sure, but it has been working for our crowd for over a decade.

Same here, I drill/taped the pan then screwed the fitting on and JB welded it in. The only problem with welding is that on cars with a/c there is NO room.

Yes, I quoted myself. :)

So the AN based drain line would have the following....

AN Flange on turbo -> straight AN to hose fitting -> length of Hose -> straight an to hose fitting -> AN male 45 to 1/2NPT fitting into the pan.

Of course, if I put the 45 on the hose end, and put a straight into the pan, installation will be a little easier, because you won't have to worry about making sure the 45 points in the right direction as you tighten it into the pan.

AN Flange on turbo -> straight AN to hose fitting -> length of Hose -> an 45 to hose fitting -> AN male straight to 1/2NPT fitting into the pan.

The economy drain line would be much simpler...

NPT Flange on turbo -> straight NPT to push fit hose fitting -> length of Hose -> push fit hose to 1/2NPT fitting into the pan.

Or to keep from having to disconnect the drain line by taking the drain flange off the turbo we could keep the an flange and make that a convenient place to disconnect the drain line.

AN Flange on turbo -> straight an to push fit hose fitting -> length of Hose -> push fit hose to 1/2NPT fitting into the pan.

Let me know what you guys think of these potential combinations. Also, what drain flange sizes you are dealing with.

Also, in looking at the FAQ, we noticed that in the picture of the drain line, that a straight fitting was used in the existing location. I also noticed, was that the marked location that says "Tap Here" is quite a bit forward from the location actually used in the picture.

- Is there room at both locations to use a straight in fitting, or does this need to be a 45 or 90 to remain AC friendly?
- Why should we choose one location over the other?

When we get these last few things nailed down, we should be able to start offering a kit.

Thanks for the Miata edification guys!

Craig

I hear ya, the Honda crowd we run with swears by the JB Weld.

Craig

Look at my post for the flared fitting I posted. Thats even simpler then ur AN + push fit adapter.

5/8 inch Flared Adapter on turbo -> 5/8 Hose -> 5/8 Flare-1/2 NPT on pan

DONE

Include the necessary hose clamps.


As for the picture in the DIY, thats just where the hose is hanging, its not actually tapped there.

I agree that your flared fitting solution is simpler, but it means that we would need to manufacture or source that flared flange from ATP. Since we are already making the AN and the NPT flanges, the combined cost of either of those for us, is cheaper than sourcing the fitting form ATP. We may begin manufacturing that part or something similar at some point.

Craig