new source for SS exhaust and piping
 

ok gang, i may have a new source for us here...a friend of mine to be exact...we will discuss his background later, what i want now is to see interest in 3" SS turbo back and SS intercooler piping TIG welded to use least ammount of couplers...

me and him will be making my set-up shortly and if we can manage to keep cost down, how many people would possibly be interested in future...

also what would be a reasonable price for a 3" turbo back, flange, 6" flex pipe, no cat, o2 bank, and not sure what ill be doing for a muffler yet, i was thinking flowmaster 3" but heard maybe not to do so...

also he will be making my FMIC piping, SS 2.25" hot, 2.5" cold, all mandrel bent and welded so you only use couplers on throttle body, end tanks, and compressor housing, fewer couplers, fewer problems, right?

everyone, please let me know what you think...i wont get :vash:...promise :nono:

On a DSM a turbo back exhaust would be in the $850 for 3" SS. Here's the thing, there were only so many combinations people ran and the exhausts could be mass produced, thus cutting cost. Not so in the Miata world. It'd be too costly to develop an exhaust with enough options to suit the turbo Miata customer base and even then your market is limited to people who want to turbo a Miata and of those, people who don't already have a DP of some kind. You'd be better off making a 3" cat-back exhaust that comes with an optional adapter so people can bolt it to the factory cat and then making DPs as a separate project.

Also, couplers in an IC setup are not always bad thing, they allow for movement.

$850 wow :td:
what is a good gauge as far as thikness? anyone?
i think i can do it for less than that :bowdown: i hope...
i will calculate a close estimate on this over the weekend, i should be able to come up with pretty close number...
what about IC piping??? anyone...would it be impossible to come up with something that will work for a lot of people??
thanks

unless you sold it with intercooler that would be tough too since everyone uses different intercoolers and different manifolds hang the turbo differently

What manifold do you plan to use and with what turbo?
All that comes into play. The IC piping would be nice but like m/n said, it depends on the IC, mani and turbo position.

no I don't see you having much sucess selling pre-made charge pipes, for the most part. You could make a greddy cross over tube with integrated BOV flange. Stripes already has the whole FMIC kit market.

you're also not going to do well with downpipes. too many different turbos and turbo locations.

you could have a lot of sucess making a cat-back exhausts, if you keep the cost down. enthuza had the market, but they've gotten very expensive. FM also has a large market share, but are also too expensive. I would like to see another turbo dual set up on the market, with a Y split, not a 1-in to 2-out muffler like enthuza's, but half the cost.

true that...most setup are similar though
i am starting to think that this is gonna be very difficult :crx:
i guess ill just take some photos of the set up and see if anyone can acomodate it to their set-up...
the exhaust im thinking should not be too difficult since there will be a 3" SS flex pipe included and pricing will obviously differ whether you want a cat or not...
this is not meant to be a mass production for a certain type of set-up, just car guys helping other car guys out in saving some money, i figured if i could mate a good welder with a miata enthusiast and for relatively cheap, others may benefit from it as well, the welder/bender (:cool:) makes a little money on the side, and the miata guys now have another route to go with if they choose...so great quality at the cheapest possible cost is what im trying to accomplish...:eek5:
the IC piping can be left longer and then you trim it down to where you need it, this will allow you some playing room (im starting to give up on the IC idea, any support:gay:)

what are the costs (appx) for both of those you mention? sorry im so lazy...:cjerk:

:fawk:
Do your own research. I'm not going to develop YOUR entire business plan so YOU can make money off MY ideas. I've done enough.

I'll be in the market for a cheap (hopefully sub $350) cat-back exhaust before too long. But I'm a cheap-ass, would be ok with 2.5" piping, and don't need SS.

sell it for $50 and they'll go like hotcakes, i can bet money on that

+1 but maybe 2.5 or 2.25, 3" is a little big for me

Ben, I wasn't kidding when I said we're making exhausts over the winter. You can hold me to it.

PS: your welds will be UGLY

:td: Ben, thought you may know it off the top of your head...:td:
mazda/nissan-:jerkit: if i could figure out how to do it for $50 i would be due for some kind of humanitarian award or something...
atlanta93-a cat back should be easy...i dont know how soon ill have mine done, maybe a couple weeks or so...what kind of exit you want? a cat back should be way cheaper than 350 even shipped if you want 2.5" and galvenised steel, i guess it would boil down to what kind of muffler you want, other than that a cat back should be very inexpensive...
keep in mind guys, i am not a co. looking to get rich, im not making shit actually, the fab/welder guy will make some money, but i think thats more than fair, i wouldnt weld shit and bend pipes on my weekends for anyone unless i was fucking you...im in it to help people and to play with cars, which what i was hoping we all were here for...

:bigtu: Excellent

I'd be down for a 3" cat back if it is a good price. So you could include a cat as well? And would there be a possibility of a 2.5" to 3" adapter for where it bolts to the downpipe?

Like I said, I am very interested, but I would have to wait a few weeks until I have a bit of $$. Doing this for a really good price would make you super cool :), you want to be cool don't you?

Uh yeah if it is modeled after the stock system i see no problem for a DP back exhaust system in stainless 3 inch for the near 400$ range if a muffler was included magnaflow etc, from scot maybe ;) 350 or so with out muffler depending on how much the hangers cost etc. As far as thickness post turbo thickness doesnt matter for shit, so long as it is standard exhaust thickness and stainless who cares right. FWIW i think the competitors are in the 500+ range for there baseline shit. Hell i could get 2.5 made out of regular steel here for 250 all day +40$ for a turbo flow muffler. But it wouldn't be mandrel bent, or stainless.

Mandrel bend is a must, I'd say

im still trying to figure everything out, as i suspected, the many different variations are bitin me in the ass...so here is the deal...
we will be making mine very soon...here is what im gonna run
3" all the way...
DP appx to where stock headers end
6" long 3" SS flex pipe
V bolt clamp and then a 3" SS pipe in location of stock pipe
i will use a flowmaster more than likely 3in3out after the axle
3" pipe (maybe something fancy and shiny) straight out

making a cat back should not run more than $150-$200 or less total, again depending on muffler...i would like for most people to just use a magnaflow or flowmaster to keep it simple and just have people tell me where they want it to exit, i have two NA's to model after, one with stock bumper, one with wizdom (big hole across the back)
will also be making one for a friend with an NB but wont have access to it regularly to model after (im gonna try to keep his stock exhaust though)
any help or input is appreciated now...id like to know before i get to carried away lol
again to all, i am not profiting at all, just helping connect the dots for everyone to save some money...only one getting any money are the pipe and flange suppliers and my friend thats doing all the mandrel bending and TIG welding for his time and wire used...thats it...this should be what we all waited for...:bigtu:
let me know everyone what you think...

speedf50-yes to all three or was it two...i can include CAT but it will be more...i think 3" cats are like 60-70 or so, so it would be that much more
as far as the adapter goes...we are getting touchy since we were gonna weld everything up prior to shipping, but it would be hard for me to figure out all the dimensions...ill get under the car and start thinking about that, if you have pic from current set up and some dimensions im sure we can work something out...that way you can just bolt it up...

any input please dont hold back

just kidding on the $50, but in the $350 range i would definately nab one (in a while when i have money), btw it would be great if you had different vid clips of how it sounds before purchasing!!!

mazda/nissan-like i said before, i was hoping that i can do the cat back for way less than $350, and as far as sound goes, i dont wat to limit peoples chioces on mufflers, so they will all vary, but i can upload the sound of mine once complete, which is not anytime soon, i am in the process of gathering everything i need, still got a little ways to go...MS is next in line, i need to get in touch with that braineak...:bowdown: he rocks...

A stainless, mandrel bend tig welded 3"exhaust that uses high quality Magnaflow components for $850 would not be a bad deal at all.

i could make a $50 cat back, but it would look like shit and i wouldnt do for anyone since the freebie meter would be off the charts, use shrt pieces of left over pipes and not have a muffler at all...NOT COOL...lol

WOT-what would be really nice is a Titanium exhaust for $850...but no can do :gay:

Find a balance. While some of us like to have art running down the underside of the car its not important to everyone. Migged mild steel seems to be ok for most here. Focus on 3" with good fitment. The price between 2.5 an 3" is so small that doing 3" is a no brainer. Make the system modular so adding a cat or reso is just as easy as doing one with a testpipe and no reso.

Offer one in aluminum for the guys that primarily use the car on the track. Mandrel bent with a slip fit or V banded muffler. Super light and still pretty affordable.

good point...i know there is no such thing as one thing that suits all...im offering help to those that want what i want, good quality for the best possible price...i know money is the only limitation in building an exhaust, materials used is the only factor and craftsmanship...i realize people will have different requirements so i will try to be as flexible with them as possible...there is only so much i can do though...this is a good solution for those that wants SS done pretty much their way, i will use whatever material an individual may want but there are different costs involved as most people do have enough sense to understand that...so as a basic im sharing what i will run, if someone wants better quality mufflers, cats, test pipes, v-bolt clamps, i can accomodate and charge for the extra materials used, obviously everyone will be ok with paying more for a cat than just having the pipe alone...this all should be determined before hand and i think like minded people will be happy to have someone go over their specs prior to actual build of their exhaust...it sounds like a win-win...i may even start a web site :bigtu: its all still coming together in my head, please do not be alarmed lol

If you're ever up in Cincinnati, Ben, stop by and I'll give you some welding lessons :bigtu:

we can weld al, but i have never heared of an al exhaust though...so i dont know...does anyone even make one? if so please fill me in, i though al would not be an option due its likelyhood of cracking under high heat, i dont think that it could work as a DP especially...but please fill me in

Considering Precision Turbo is selling aluminum turbine discharge flanges for some of the larger turbos used in import drag racing, I would say its an option for sure.

guys, pipe thickness is confirmed at .0645", any input, please im a newb to this...i understand cm not inches

WOT-interesting, ill look into it, i just dont want to be the guinea pig and test it on my car, im not even boosted yet...

Thats just fine.

whaamx5, I for one think this is an excellent idea! Of course I would like to see and hear yours first, but you can pretty much put me down for a cat-back system.

I personally like the idea of engineering the axle back portion to place the muffler diagonally, eliminating the 90 degree bends.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted!

Thanks--might be worth a trip just for that. AirTran's cheap.

yeah thats what i want, let people decide if they want stock look or something different...its as if do you were making it yourself...sort of

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. :bigtu:

Like what was mentioned earlier, most here feel high quality is secondary to cheap price.

Enthuza's are (were? haven't seen a new one in a while) good for the price.

.065" is great.

Do it! It fits easily (EDIT: uhhh...on 96+ rears without the inner flange on the axles, otherwise it gets a little more tricky but still doable) and saves a bunch of weight. My straight-er 3" exhaust with cat was ~5lbs lighter than an 2.25" enthuza.

Dude a 3 inch mandrel exhaust with stock exit for my NA in Stainless or AL for less than 300 would be kick ass i would send you the money tut suite. Lemme know 2 bolt cat flange and magnaflow muffler please ;)

^^ what he said ^^ :werd:

http://www.magnaflow.org
7" round #13743 maybe??? that looks good for size...
5" round #12867 looks real good for also...and its SS, but not shiny...look at it
or anyone else care to add anything...id like to know exactly what kind of muffler you want...id hate to send you something you dont want...
will keep you all posted with my build...

Turbo Tim, thanks for the input...would you happen to know weight of either, id like to be able to compare to something...appreciate everyones cooperation
we should be able to build exhausts for evey taste, cheap for the cheap, and not so cheap for the quality shiny stuff...

no, you need to build this, or nothing at all

http://www.enthuza.com/db5/00450/ent...s/duallook.jpg

thats sweet...is that yours? nice
a dual should not be very hard...but more expensive again...more parts more money...:nono:
that one goes under the axle, no? i will go over...
that is nice and shiny...not my style...and looks so heavy
wouldnt you rather have one muffler with dual outlet...it is just for looksanyway right?
ill draw some designs up over the weekend...

2.25" Enthuza, no resonator, OEM cat: 29lb 12oz.
My 3", no resonator, metal core cat: 24lb 0oz.
I used the 5x8x18 magnaflow muffler, kinda large.
The exhaust I just did for Paul with metal core cat, no muffler, a small resonator, and driver's side exit was 18lbs somewhere.

Goin' over the axle huh...I wanna see it.

I have a OEM '95 exhaust that I can get the hanger and cat flange location from...I have been considering trying to sell my version of the 3" catback but I don't think many will want to pay what I'd want to charge. Plus to ship it I'd need to put a joint somewhere in the middle which adds cost.

Do a 3" stainless catback for <$300 and I'd probably buy it for the raw material ;)

My last exhaust on a 95 was ~$950 installed, but that included a metal core cat, Burns smooth/long transition from 2.5 to 3", all new hangers, and redoing/reorienting a portion of the BEGI divorced wastegate downpipe. They put the O2 bung facing down?!?!?! Plus it's 2.5", not 2.75", and the 2.5" section was a form of stainless that rusts. :inout:

What was it exactly, out of curiousity.

No that's not mine; it's the one I told you to copy and sell for less.
Mine has a 1-in 2-out type muffler.

GFL going over the axle.

Turbo Tim-i did a bit more research...most place are selling 2.25-2.5 mid pipes for in the 400 neighborhood, but most also use polished SS mufflers...i can build an exhaust for less than that for sure even if the person wanted to use a polished muffler...in other words, what ever the person wants to pay for is what ill make for them...

Ben-i could make that, no problem, but two mufflers means twice the money...it wont be as cheap as the other exhaust, but im sure i can make it cheap than what they are being sold for now and still offer peopel the chioce between cat test pipe or just straight pipe...but why would you want to have two mufflers...it would make more sense to have a one in two out muffler...less weight...

What was what? I don't know the exact alloy metal BEGI used for that diameter section if that's what you mean. If you want to know the exact diameter, it was like 2.511 with the surface rust.

EDIT: I should have said "it was a form of stainless that rusts and is magnetic". Strong magnetic too, like I hung my drop lite from it.

I know mild steel rusts and is magnetic. But BEGI wouldn't sell a stainless downpipe with mild steel sections. :squint: The 1.5" wastegate tube and the 2.25" upper main downpipe section was stainless and looked brand new (the kit had few miles on it according to the owner).

But they did put that damn O2 sensor bung at the bottom of the pipe...steph?

You know they do that all the damn time. At first, I thought it was by accident, but because they keep doing it, I'm starting to think it's by design. Perhaps they're not expecting people to run WB sensors full time, so they put the bung at the bottom side to make it easier to stuff a sensor in the bung at the dyno?

That is my only conclusion that is logical. Really, if I were making a downpipe/getting one made, I'd probably have 2 wb bungs installed; one up top for my sensor, and a second bung with cap at the bottom for the dyno's sensor.

Yeah i thought you might be referring to a particular alloy of tubing. Weird stuff.

dont give up hope yet, lots of R&R this weekend and Magnaflow polished SS mufflers will be the norm in the first few sets...should be coming with first example of 3" cat back...it will be a round mufler mounted diagonaly under car and evit stock location...i will make it in any variation/spec that anyone wants...i will use other mufflers upon demand...i will be designing this one first though...let me know

make me a very quiet 3" turbo exhaust without tip (i have a very cool one laying around) and ill buy it!

thanks for your support, im not sure how quiet it will be, but once i have one made i will upload sound clips...i do have a muffler that should be very quiet though...ill see...pm me with your info (what turbo etc...stock exit muffler?)
thanks

its getting hotter...
 

heads up...my SS flanges arrived today, should start build of first exhaust this weekend...
i've been very buys trying to lower the cost on eveything, any help is appreciated
if anyone can point me in the rigth direction as far as v-band clamps with flanges are sold (stainless) they are pretty expensive, lowest i found is about 27-28 for each set, i'd like to use two for each exhaust but may switch over to just one...will make harder to ship and remove/install
if anyone knows how to get them dirt cheap, please let me know...
everything else is in line so far...:bigtu: good deals on magnaflow mufflers in all sizes and styles pretty much...
the first one that wants a stock looking exhaust will get a huge deal...i picked up a new magnaflow 3in3out stainless (not polished) oem location style (hope this make sense) for only $31 on ebay (new from individual), so heads up all...we should start production very soon
thanks for everyones support

Only place i know with cheap vbands sells them with mild flanges and stainless clamps, they're $30 I think.
You can buy in bulk from this company and they give a discount to homemadeturbo.net members http://store.racing-solutions.org/

yeah i see they are with mild flanges though and they are 35 ea...
they are selling SS flanges for 20 ea...i found the SS clamp with mild flanges for less than 28 shipped, i was looking for cheaper, or for ss flanges with same price...but i may have to go with mild...i hope these come down in price like everything else...

Mild flanges wouldn't be all that bad, they would tig well to stainless pipes with the right rod.
If you contact them they might give you a better price if you decided to do some sort of bulk order.

yeah i know...i talked to every ebay seller...whats funny to me, the range in prices is ridiculous, anywhere from 40 shipped to 70 shipped for the same shit
the mild ones on the other hand i found from 28ea to 40 ea...makes no sense, i think they will get cheap within a few months, the market is demanding them...i may just order the bands and get someone to cnc my own flanges...but then again thats a lot of work for me with very little time...fuck it, i think ill just use one for after the DP before the flex pipe and call it a day...you want fancy clamps it'll be more, lol thats as simple as i can figure it...take it or leave it, you know...
oh, hell, midl steel it is damn it...i made up my mind...
also, do most DP's end where stock header would end...im not gona run a cat, so it will be easy to make "DP back" and then make DP's to end at stock header end...simple enough
i am still debating the routing around the axle area...we'll see this weekend how things go, ill let ya'll know

ok loosers, its friday, i better not see any new posts from now till monday morning, lol, i know that aint gonna happen, ill be here sat morning asking for help, putting 99 head on 96 block in my friends 92, yeah thats what i said, lol
after that, its onto exhaust development...wish me luck
ill let ya'll know how it went

yeah the dp ends where the stock header ends. Well most do, some require "minor fabrication" :bigtu:

i realize making the DP for myself will be very easy, but its almost impossible to make one for other DIY'ers...its gonna suck, i may just stick to DP backs...unless i made pabricatable DP's to fit appx. and then you make it fot to your turbo and the back of DP by cutting and welding it yourself, does anyone understand me? i dont understand me...i have voices in my head...they tell it will work, i wish you guys could hear them too :)

ok, some more stuff arrived, i may have something done tomorrow...wish me luck, i have arranged a time with my welder/bender (lol) tomorrow afternoon to test bend some mild pipes for fittment and clearace...im so excite
should i snap pics or no...would anyone even care to see them?