No oil pressure after turbo install
 

I completed the turbo install this week and was excited to start it! But...

No oil pressure :(

I pulled the injector relay and tried to turn it over for 60 seconds, no pressure. So I started it, still no pressure.

I checked the oil pressure sender connector - it was fine.

I disconnected the oil feed line to check for oil - dry.

I disconnected the oil filter to check for oil - dry.

So... is it either a "priming" problem or a problem with the oil pump? Am I looking at removing the oil pan? Is there a recommended way for priming, or just leave the filter loose to let any air out?

you confirmed no oil pressure but then started it anyway? well that's smart hahahha


check the oil pump first. unless you drilled the pan in the wrong place and too deep and damaged the pickup, in which case you'll have to yank the engine

primary reason i started it was because i saw that the MS and AFR weren't powered with the injector relay out; i wasn't sure if the oil pressure gauge/sender wasn't active with the relay out, possibly due to the MS. fuzzy logic, i guess.

what do you mean by check the oil pump? prime it? pull the pan?

i drilled where BEGI recommended, as precisely as possible. the bit broke through, but i certainly didn't drill once it did, and i ran the tap through as recommended also (bury it with 2 threads left). is that especially close to the pickup?

FWIW, i used probably 3 quarts of mineral spirits to flush it out and left the drain plug out overnight.

did a little more reading, and starting to understand that it's fairly easy to make a pickup tube mistake. the begi instructions did not give me the impression the tube was so close behind there, so i am now concerned. yet i should hopefully be able to inspect by removing the oil drain.

anyway, please let me know a recommended way to check the oil pump.

This is advice i got from a greybeard at one point. Ive never tried it so use it at your own risk.

Do you have a vacuum pump of some sort? If not, go buy one. Any cheap hand pump should do, like a MityVac. Get a cheap oil filter, a 1/8" brass hose barb, some JB weld, some clear rigid tube and a drill. Drill a hole in the filter just large enough to stick the brass barb into and then JB weld it in place and let it dry overnight. Don't introduce metal shavings into the engine via the filter, don't say I didn't warn you. After the epoxy dries overnight, put the filter on the engine and start cranking away with the vac pump via the clear tube. This will probably take a while. With any luck, you will see oil in the tube and will thusly have primed your oil pump.

If you punched a hole in your pickup tube, no amount of vacuum is going to prime the system.

Good luck, and I hope your bearings are OK.

that's a serious procedure :) i could probably do that, using my old filter. it sounds fairly fool-proof from the standpoint of seeing oil versus not seeing it.

the other way i have heard was leaving the filter loose and cranking; is that really valid?

i did not run the engine long. i heard the lifters and knew better. did not time it, but it was not long. i also hope they are OK...

take off the filter altogether

something tells me if you're getting zero oil through the turbo feed and didn't touch anything oil pump related between then and now, you probably did mess up the pickup tube

don't start the car, at all, til you fix this

Sage advice here, +1

I will take that advice.

I left the filter very loose and let the engine do its last few cranks before my battery died. I took the filter off and found that it was nearly filled with oil. This differs from the empty/dry one I had before.

This seems to be good news. With a charged battery, I will probably do that some more, then tighten the filter and see whether I can get good pressure.

Sound reasonable?

I am wondering if this is necessary because I had no oil in the car for over a week due to prolonged install. That would have given time for everything in there to drain out. I guess I am hoping for that.

I'd love to see a photo of your oil return. My 91 gets oil pressure instantly even after sitting for a long time. Here is a photo of my oil return for reference, well forward of the oil pickup.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397221679

The oil pump has a allen key screw on top of it near alternator....take it out and crank engine over.

If you can stuff a tube in there to keep the mess down all the better. If you get no oil gushing out there then you can be certain you have an issue in the oil pump/pickup tube

I've also poured oil into the pump that way ahead of time to help with the initial priming...it's a pain but gives you instant oil pressure.

My oil return is very close to yours, mounted a bit lower. No photo, but it is comparable to BEGI's on Page 6 here.

I will check that out. It sounds like a more direct method than taking the filter off.

Thanks all for the replies so far :dealwithit:

This is exactly how you need to check to see if your pump is building oil pressure or not.

Hole in the pickup tube. Sweet. I am wondering if I actually did it with the tap.

Now I get to learn my lesson.

http://gbatemp.net/attachments/the_m...2-1-jpg.5953/\

Didn't Soviet have a fucked up sandwich plate? Did you install one with the turbo?

no, no sandwich plate.

That is fucking shitty! Time to pull the engine and drop the pan.:facepalm:

You may want to go all out and have the engine built while its pulled but your looking at a lot more $ and down time.

i am considering dropping the subframe to get the oil pan off. i watched "mike Miata king"'s video and see that it is something like 18 bolts and maybe the power steering lines. with power steering and a/c, i am less comfortable pulling the engine, or at least think dropping the subframe is comparable. the impact should make quick work of those bolts, or most of them (that i can get to), and re-install should not be too bad, right? re-aligning things may be painful.

i might be off base with that.

I've got an impact, engine support, half a dozen jack stands, and two jacks. hoping that i can get the oil pan off without having to disconnect the P/S lines and steering shaft, maybe not.

regardless, a lot of work for an inexpensive part. too bad i wasn't smarter about this.

its more work than needed to leave the engine in place to remove the oil pan.

lowering the subframe is more work than pulling the motor.


fwiw, leave the PS hoses connected, just unbolt the bracket from the engine.

The problem comes when you go to reinstall the oil baffle, pick up, and pan. Take an engine out and pull the pan and it will sit there and drip oil on the ground for weeks.

Pan install requires the following:

1. RTV around the entire border
2. install rubber half seals on either end
3. place baffle in place
4. bolt up pickup tube with gasket to oil pump, and tighten to baffle
5. RTV both sides of baffle
6. RTV tops of rubber seals
7. place pan and tighten up

Now think about doing this while upside down. You need to keep all surfaces clean. I prefer to use alcohol to clean them, binds to the RTV better. On top of that, you need to hold the two seals, baffle, and pick up in place as you bolt the pan on.

Now, imagine throwing it on a stand, flipping it upside down, and doing the same. Much MUCH easier.

I get what you are saying.

Three things/assumptions I was working with; maybe they are not valid -

- Removing the engine with A/C on the car will be more difficult with the hard lines and compressor
- I can leave the windage tray in place with its sealant
- The car hasn't had oil circulating since October, so the engine should be fairly clean

Those gave me the impression I should be successful in this task.

Long ago, before I installed my begi kit, I wanted to refresh the engine with new rings/bearings a light hone and new head gasket. I did it the way your attempting, and while it is most definitely doable, it was a much more difficult than pulling the engine/trans as one unit and throwing it on a bench for dis-assembly.

You spend a lot of time laying on your back fighting with bolts and jack stands trying to get the proper clearance to sneak the pan out. Then trying to get all the surfaces clean and dry while wrestling an rtv'd pan back into place and trying to keep the half moon pan gaskets seated correctly while trying to install all the pan bolts and tighten/torque them in the proper sequence was a serious pain in the ass. Not to mention the possibility of not discovering a leak until its all back together again and running.

If you have access to a car hoist and an engine support bar then it might be a better option, but you probably don't.

Pulling the engine may require an evac of the a/c and partial draining of the cooling system but lowering the cradle requires dis connecting the upper strut mounts, sway bar, steering shaft and a whole list of other things I can't quite remember atm. ;)

Before you do anything I would remove the drain hose and fitting and try your best to shine a light in the pan and see if you can tell for sure the pickup is fubar'd.

Godspeed my friend:dealwithit:

18 bolts for the subframe, but the engine is only 7, fuel lines, coolant lines, clutch line, and electrical. I think you're forgetting removing the transmission, which putting that thing back in while on your back is one of the hardest things I've done on a miata.

Flounder, I've verified that the pickup is damaged; replacement is on order.

Curly, I was under the impression that the trans and engine are still held together by multiple bolts if the oil pan is removed, which is important regardless of how I fix my horrible mistake. Not the case?

Yes true, it's held together with 4 bolts on the block, and four bolts on the oil pan. Plus the starter. The tranny sitting there makes it that much more of a pain in the ass. Pull the engine.

You make it sound like pulling the engine and transmission together is the way to do a clutch swap... is that a viable method for doing a clutch on the Miata? I have a lift, but it has the hump between the towers making a transmission jack a pain in the ass to use.

Keith

I prefer pulling them together for a clutch yes, the consensus seems to be pulling the tranny is only easier if you have a lift. Dunno what your lift is like.

An update, 3 months later...

I replaced my oil pickup by dropping the subframe. I got a jack attachment for raising/lowering the subframe, engine support bar, and impact wrench from HF and went to work. Retaining A/C on the car was my main motivation for going this route, and also a Youtube video from Mr. MiataKing was a helpful guide. YMMV, but it worked for me.

It was not an easy job, but it went fairly smoothly. Primary hangups were a seized trans-oil pan bolt that sheared apart, possibly due to hydraulic fluid corrosion from a leaky slave cyl, and aligning everything when the subframe went back in, which would have been easier with a helper or two.

Couple thousand miles later, everything is going well. I have it running pretty well at 11PSI and a maximum IAT of 125F with water-methanol injection. I'm really enjoying the car; MUCH better top end than the good ol' M45.

Thanks all for your advice and keeping me on a successful path to getting this car up and running :bigtu: