No oil pressure after turbo install - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-11-2014, 12:46 AM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default No oil pressure after turbo install

I completed the turbo install this week and was excited to start it! But...

No oil pressure :(

I pulled the injector relay and tried to turn it over for 60 seconds, no pressure. So I started it, still no pressure.

I checked the oil pressure sender connector - it was fine.

I disconnected the oil feed line to check for oil - dry.

I disconnected the oil filter to check for oil - dry.

So... is it either a "priming" problem or a problem with the oil pump? Am I looking at removing the oil pan? Is there a recommended way for priming, or just leave the filter loose to let any air out?
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 12:48 AM   #2
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

you confirmed no oil pressure but then started it anyway? well that's smart hahahha


check the oil pump first. unless you drilled the pan in the wrong place and too deep and damaged the pickup, in which case you'll have to yank the engine
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 12:58 AM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
you confirmed no oil pressure but then started it anyway? well that's smart hahahha


check the oil pump first. unless you drilled the pan in the wrong place and too deep and damaged the pickup, in which case you'll have to yank the engine
primary reason i started it was because i saw that the MS and AFR weren't powered with the injector relay out; i wasn't sure if the oil pressure gauge/sender wasn't active with the relay out, possibly due to the MS. fuzzy logic, i guess.

what do you mean by check the oil pump? prime it? pull the pan?

i drilled where BEGI recommended, as precisely as possible. the bit broke through, but i certainly didn't drill once it did, and i ran the tap through as recommended also (bury it with 2 threads left). is that especially close to the pickup?

FWIW, i used probably 3 quarts of mineral spirits to flush it out and left the drain plug out overnight.

Last edited by mc85; 04-11-2014 at 01:22 AM.
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 01:24 AM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

did a little more reading, and starting to understand that it's fairly easy to make a pickup tube mistake. the begi instructions did not give me the impression the tube was so close behind there, so i am now concerned. yet i should hopefully be able to inspect by removing the oil drain.

anyway, please let me know a recommended way to check the oil pump.
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 01:25 AM   #5
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

This is advice i got from a greybeard at one point. Ive never tried it so use it at your own risk.

Do you have a vacuum pump of some sort? If not, go buy one. Any cheap hand pump should do, like a MityVac. Get a cheap oil filter, a 1/8" brass hose barb, some JB weld, some clear rigid tube and a drill. Drill a hole in the filter just large enough to stick the brass barb into and then JB weld it in place and let it dry overnight. Don't introduce metal shavings into the engine via the filter, don't say I didn't warn you. After the epoxy dries overnight, put the filter on the engine and start cranking away with the vac pump via the clear tube. This will probably take a while. With any luck, you will see oil in the tube and will thusly have primed your oil pump.

If you punched a hole in your pickup tube, no amount of vacuum is going to prime the system.

Good luck, and I hope your bearings are OK.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 01:31 AM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
This is advice i got from a greybeard at one point. Ive never tried it so use it at your own risk.

Do you have a vacuum pump of some sort? If not, go buy one. Any cheap hand pump should do, like a MityVac. Get a cheap oil filter, a 1/8" brass hose barb, some JB weld, some clear rigid tube and a drill. Drill a hole in the filter just large enough to stick the brass barb into and then JB weld it in place and let it dry overnight. Don't introduce metal shavings into the engine via the filter, don't say I didn't warn you. After the epoxy dries overnight, put the filter on the engine and start cranking away with the vac pump via the clear tube. This will probably take a while. With any luck, you will see oil in the tube and will thusly have primed your oil pump.

If you punched a hole in your pickup tube, no amount of vacuum is going to prime the system.

Good luck, and I hope your bearings are OK.
that's a serious procedure i could probably do that, using my old filter. it sounds fairly fool-proof from the standpoint of seeing oil versus not seeing it.

the other way i have heard was leaving the filter loose and cranking; is that really valid?

i did not run the engine long. i heard the lifters and knew better. did not time it, but it was not long. i also hope they are OK...
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 01:35 AM   #7
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

take off the filter altogether

something tells me if you're getting zero oil through the turbo feed and didn't touch anything oil pump related between then and now, you probably did mess up the pickup tube

don't start the car, at all, til you fix this
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 02:05 AM   #8
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
don't start the car, at all, til you fix this
Sage advice here, +1
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 02:15 AM   #9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

I will take that advice.

I left the filter very loose and let the engine do its last few cranks before my battery died. I took the filter off and found that it was nearly filled with oil. This differs from the empty/dry one I had before.

This seems to be good news. With a charged battery, I will probably do that some more, then tighten the filter and see whether I can get good pressure.

Sound reasonable?

I am wondering if this is necessary because I had no oil in the car for over a week due to prolonged install. That would have given time for everything in there to drain out. I guess I am hoping for that.
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 10:07 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 212
Total Cats: 3
Default

I'd love to see a photo of your oil return. My 91 gets oil pressure instantly even after sitting for a long time. Here is a photo of my oil return for reference, well forward of the oil pickup.

Attached Thumbnails
No oil pressure after turbo install-20130317_152150_zps6024543d.jpg  
AlexL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 10:58 AM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Posts: 1,187
Total Cats: 4
Default

The oil pump has a allen key screw on top of it near alternator....take it out and crank engine over.

If you can stuff a tube in there to keep the mess down all the better. If you get no oil gushing out there then you can be certain you have an issue in the oil pump/pickup tube

I've also poured oil into the pump that way ahead of time to help with the initial priming...it's a pain but gives you instant oil pressure.
Preluding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 11:19 AM   #12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexL View Post
I'd love to see a photo of your oil return. My 91 gets oil pressure instantly even after sitting for a long time. Here is a photo of my oil return for reference, well forward of the oil pickup.
My oil return is very close to yours, mounted a bit lower. No photo, but it is comparable to BEGI's on Page 6 here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preluding View Post
The oil pump has a allen key screw on top of it near alternator....take it out and crank engine over.

If you can stuff a tube in there to keep the mess down all the better. If you get no oil gushing out there then you can be certain you have an issue in the oil pump/pickup tube

I've also poured oil into the pump that way ahead of time to help with the initial priming...it's a pain but gives you instant oil pressure.
I will check that out. It sounds like a more direct method than taking the filter off.

Thanks all for the replies so far
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2014, 11:43 AM   #13
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preluding View Post
The oil pump has a allen key screw on top of it near alternator....take it out and crank engine over.

If you can stuff a tube in there to keep the mess down all the better. If you get no oil gushing out there then you can be certain you have an issue in the oil pump/pickup tube

I've also poured oil into the pump that way ahead of time to help with the initial priming...it's a pain but gives you instant oil pressure.
This is exactly how you need to check to see if your pump is building oil pressure or not.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 01:02 AM   #14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

Hole in the pickup tube. Sweet. I am wondering if I actually did it with the tap.

Now I get to learn my lesson.

mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 01:43 AM   #15
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

Didn't Soviet have a fucked up sandwich plate? Did you install one with the turbo?
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 01:49 AM   #16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

no, no sandwich plate.
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 08:10 PM   #17
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,524
Total Cats: 27
Default

That is ******* shitty! Time to pull the engine and drop the pan.

You may want to go all out and have the engine built while its pulled but your looking at a lot more $ and down time.
flounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 09:38 PM   #18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MN
Posts: 115
Total Cats: 2
Default

i am considering dropping the subframe to get the oil pan off. i watched "mike Miata king"'s video and see that it is something like 18 bolts and maybe the power steering lines. with power steering and a/c, i am less comfortable pulling the engine, or at least think dropping the subframe is comparable. the impact should make quick work of those bolts, or most of them (that i can get to), and re-install should not be too bad, right? re-aligning things may be painful.

i might be off base with that.

I've got an impact, engine support, half a dozen jack stands, and two jacks. hoping that i can get the oil pan off without having to disconnect the P/S lines and steering shaft, maybe not.

regardless, a lot of work for an inexpensive part. too bad i wasn't smarter about this.
mc85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2014, 09:53 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 71
Default

its more work than needed to leave the engine in place to remove the oil pan.

lowering the subframe is more work than pulling the motor.


fwiw, leave the PS hoses connected, just unbolt the bracket from the engine.
shlammed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 12:31 AM   #20
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

The problem comes when you go to reinstall the oil baffle, pick up, and pan. Take an engine out and pull the pan and it will sit there and drip oil on the ground for weeks.

Pan install requires the following:

1. RTV around the entire border
2. install rubber half seals on either end
3. place baffle in place
4. bolt up pickup tube with gasket to oil pump, and tighten to baffle
5. RTV both sides of baffle
6. RTV tops of rubber seals
7. place pan and tighten up

Now think about doing this while upside down. You need to keep all surfaces clean. I prefer to use alcohol to clean them, binds to the RTV better. On top of that, you need to hold the two seals, baffle, and pick up in place as you bolt the pan on.

Now, imagine throwing it on a stand, flipping it upside down, and doing the same. Much MUCH easier.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Complete BEGI S3 NB Kit, Full Enthuza 3" Exhaust, ACT HD Clutch, MS2 PNP, Wideband kronikker Miata parts for sale/trade 17 10-06-2015 11:18 PM
Mystery Engine Trouble. Halp, mt.net! vehicular General Miata Chat 12 09-14-2015 04:17 PM
Project DDoS: '99 "Budget" boost build ProjectDDoS Build Threads 1 09-09-2015 02:52 PM
Advanced Engine Dynamix Review (dead oil pump content) itsMikey Insert BS here 0 09-05-2015 03:56 PM
E-Manage Base Maps faviles5566 ECUs and Tuning 0 09-04-2015 12:50 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:40 AM.