Noob turbo selection help...
 

Hey everybody,
Long story short my car was wrecked and because it wasn't a total loss I'm jumping in with both feet. I've got a reverant built ms2 on the way, and I'll be picking up some 550cc injectors (standard stuff really).
My current setup is a diy mani, and down pipe, with a china charger on it (was labeled as a godspeed gt25, physically it was smaller then the sr20 t25 I leant to someone who lost it). It has a ridiculous amount of shaft play and you can see the blades have contacted the housing and are wearing away. So now i'm looking at a new turbo too (well new to me).
My goals are to have 250whp. Maybe have a little headroom. Spool isn't that important to me but I don't want it to take all day either. I'd also like to be able to be faster or not much slower than a 2011 BMW 335is (I don't really care about this either it's just that my cousin has one and thinks its the cats meow).
I was originally looking at getting another china charger (godspeed 2871) but because of the inconsistent results I'm going to try and stay away from them. So I was thinking of an sr20 t25, however I'm not sure I'll be over reaching its limits just a little (This is really my first choice), I've been looking at garrett T3's as well or something off of a volvo. I'm not sure how well they'd work. I recently stumbled across the td04hl-16t. I know virtually nothing about this other then I'd have to make new flanges for it to work. I'm not sure what its range is as far as psi/flow rate is concerned, and unless it'll be fantastic its at the bottom of my list.
So now that I've posted a bunch of nonsense I guess my main question is should I get a garrett sr20 t25? Will it be ok running around 14-15psi(I've read this is the limit). Will it be able to get me close to 250whp?

I hit 225 whp on 12 psi with my sr20. I'll sell it to you.

Haha thats pretty funny you'd say that because today on was looking throughb yourb threads to try and find details of your setup

I would use exactly the same T3 turbo that Braineack uses. He had great results and the cost was like 150 bucks or something like that.

Also, check out Underdog's build. He managed 250whp with ease from his china T3

Underdog threads for your viewing pleasure
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/underdogs-de-greddified-sunburst-yellow-48386/
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/back-dyno-my-de-greddified-1-6l-diy-setup-56729/

and a cool Braineack thread
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/1-6l-t3-chinatarder-ms3x-236hp-235tq-53544/

Cool cool. Thanks for the info. I will look into it. I also forgot to mention that my car is a 2001. So its looking like either a sr20 t25 or china t3. Both will require me to change some flanges but thats not really a big deal.

My setup is pretty much an FM hotside kit with a junkyarded SR20 t25 turbo. I fabbed the intercooler plumbing myself and bought a used FM intercooler. Nothing really special otherwise.
I eliminated things like A/C and MAF, and I run MS 2 full Standalone...other than that stuff and an FM level 1 clutch, she's all factory.

So you think something like this will be acceptable? Providing decent spool, reliability, and enough headroom to put me in the danger to manifold, 5 speed destroying zone? I'm pretty wary about buying another china charger. As I heard about inconsistent results. Also I know a guy who will sell me a sr20 t25 turbo right now. But still thinking about headroom, etc...I'm extremely slow when it comes to doing anything to my car. Also I'm running a log manifold and 2.5" down pipe. I'll probably build a 2.5" down pipe back soon. I'm also designing (solid works) some nifty looking manifolds to do a low mount set up.

You want at least a 2560 if you want some headroom. A 2554 will not make it to the 250hp.

The hx series turbos are decent and provide great spool characteristics whilst being affordable. Slightly biased because I have one about to be mounted on my chaser (hx35). These can also be rebuilt pretty cheap.

Thats what I've read as well. Dumb question is the sr turbo comparable to the 2554? I was reading about the possibility of rebuilding the sr turbo with a ball bearing CHRA (I think that's right) and having it be like a new 2560 then. But really I'm still pretty confused about that.

The SR20 T25 is comparable to the 2554, but it's a journal bearing unit. The sr20 turbine wheel I think it slightly larger than the 2554.
To make a SR20 become silimar to a 2560, you need to upgrade the compressor wheel to a "big T28 wheel" which is 60 trim, 60 mm. The SR20 compressor uses a 56mm wheel I believe. You also cannot just swap wheels, you have to bore out the compressor.
http://gpopshop.com/
That company does the boring and they sell the new wheel. For the price though, you're better off just finding a ball bearing 2560 right from the get go.

Thanks for all the info. Sorry I just noticed I didn't post a link earlier. I meant to post this http://www.ebay.com/itm/350133319881...#ht_5187wt_986
It's the turbo underdog originally had. He felt it was to big and went with a smaller T3 like brain's. On a 1.8 would this still be a little large?

For 250hp? Yeah. But, if you want headroom for more power in the future, then this would be fine *if* you are comfortable with having a slower spooling turbo. But remember, this is all subjective. What matters most is what you want and what type of powerband you want.

(edit) I'd use the larger turbo, but that's just my preference.

Yeah I'm just worried I could be really disappointed in the turbo. The only video I saw of a T3 (other then underdogs) it seemed like no power, no power, 5000rpm ok now there's power. I feel like that would suck. On the other hand. Thirdgen gave me a ride in his car yesterday. Our setups are very similar except he has a garrett. His turbo spools stupid fast, but in my opinion it kind of leaves me hanging on the top end. So I think I'd be willing to sacrifice low-midrange for upper-midrange and top end. I do also plan on doing things that may help spool. Like a low mount tubular manifold.

Honestly, the more you post about what you want, the more I hear "gt2560" screaming in my head. It literally covers everything you just described.

Yeah you're probably right. Problem is now I have "big" turbo stuck in my head and I keep thinking about that T3/T4 I posted the link to, now I really want it. Unfortunately I don't think I have the means to take advantage of it (built motor). Also I wasn't planning on rebuilding my whole system now which would probably help the performance of the bigger turbo. Think I could start spooling that thing by 4000rpm?

So now I'm really stuck on the bigger turbo idea. I may offer a really low price and see if they'll accept and get an sr20 t25 as a place holder. That way if I hate the bigger turbo I can have a working turbo and then save up for a better one.
I also snapped a picture of the progress on my car. It's disassembled and waiting to go on the frame bench and get a new quarter panel. But I have to go to work now so I'll post the picture later.

The larger turbo you want is T3 foot print, not compatible with the T2 foot print of the SR20 T25g. So remember that you'll need to change manifolds/downpipes if/when you plan on switching.

Edit: What engine do you have in your car? Big difference using a T3/T4 on a B6 versus a BP w/ vvt.

What is that difference. I just bought a 03 with vvt to swap in to mine and would be interested in the effect it has on turbo choice. Please elaborate viper

Are you asking the difference between the turbo footprints or the engines?

Turbo flanges:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326831201
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326831201


BP w/ vvt head is considered to be the easiest combo to make power on and vvt helps with spool.

Its an 01 with 01 BP vvt engine. However my megasquirt doesn't have vvt tuner yet. Yeah I haven't decided what to do with my manifold yet. However, I do make all my own parts so changing flanges isn't a huge deal to me.

I would go with somehting even bigger than a 2560. A gt2871 on a nice manifold will still spool very fast and give you the head room to reach the potential of your stock shortblock.

2560 at bare minimum if you want 250 with a little headroom.
2871 if you want a good bit of headroom.
and 30r+ if you want tons of headroom.

don't be afraid of larger turbos. people that diss them are usually the ones that never had one.

Yeah I'm not going to lie. I don't know much about turbo sizes when I look at the specs. So the turbo I'm interested in (until I can afford a baller borg warner efr) is the one I referenced above. I will compare it, size wise, to garretts later. On another note they cut the old quarter panel off of my car today. I'll have to learn how to upload pics soon, and get time to do it.
Eventually I do want a built motor, but I don't know when that'd be.

From the conversation we had the other day, I think you would want this manifold...buy it or build your own:
http://www.absurdflow.com/products.html
check out the first manifold on that page.
As for turbo...I'm buyin the Godspeed 3076...it's $299 on ebay. Everyone I'm ever read about that used it had zero problems.
I'm going to run that turbo on between 10-14 psi (whatever maxes out my RX8 425's).
If you would want like 300whp, that turbo will do it, obviously with more boost. For an over 300whp power level, I'd run Deatschwerks 600's due to being that bosch type that I told you about.

Yeah that really would be a good one to clone for a low mount setup. I was thinking more along the lines of a ram horn style manifold. But I'd also like to position the turbo farther back. I'll look more into it when I get the car back. Then I'll decide on my plan of action. Which will most likely be chop one flange off and weld one on, and modify my down pipe. I just looked at those injectors and they are slick. I'll definitely keep them in mind. Thanks

im running a mitsu big 16g ath 14psi and im making at least 250whp... fast spool very durable turbo.

How do you know you're making at least 250whp? Did you dyno the car?

smart butt dyno;
or in other words a smart donkey

I'm also curious about this.

he dyno'd 225 a couple months after I dyno'd my car.
we then re-tuned it and it "feels" a bit stronger.

so I'd say 250 is a good guesstimate.

I think the big thing is if it is a street car or a track car. I have ran a 2554 on a begi setup and I loved it more then my absurdflow 2871 on the street, but on the track I prefer the bigger turbo.

I guess it depends on style.
I had the hks 2535 (basically 2860) on the street, then went to a 3076 also on the street, enjoyed the 3076 a LOT more.

I expect a little more manliness out of a fellow gun owner than what you've shown here.

I love my 2860rs (.86)on the street, hitting 12psi at 3200rpm. It's bauce. I've driven a 2554 car and although it makes boost off idle I'd wager that it's still slower under 3200rpm than my tater and probably uses more fuel in cruise since it's always screaming with very small throttle input.

I enjoyed being able to have boost instantly with the 2554 on the street. In the traffic in NoVA being able to be in boost instantly to get around was a very nice feature. The extra lowend was like bliss, but up top it did really fall on its face above 6k. Even Braineack will say he would love driving my car just because the instant low-end torque.

With my 2871 it seems more like I need bigger open spaces on the road to enjoy the boost. I cannot simply be on it for 3 quick seconds when I need a little more power.

I don't know man, I guess my car is just "better" than yours. When I put the 300lb air brake/tire trailer on my car and roll 250-miles each way, even at 3000rpm at 60mph in 6th is zips like a diesel truck and I will drop down to 50mph or so and leave it in 6th, with the trailer. Let's also not forget that I'm pretty much the best tuner on Earth so that probably has something to do with it too, lol.

You and I need to switch cars and zip around for a while to put this turbo debate to bed. I think that hitting ~250wtq 200-500rpm on my turbo makes it a bit easier to drive, it definitely helps me with gear selection on the track. Now that I'm back to tracking this car on a good head, its faster than I want it to be, again.I know what you mean though, it's like a challenge to not go to jail every time I drive it on the street. Really, it's hard because the thing builds speed so fast with very small throttle input.

Oh yeah, to the OP. If you really want 250whp on a Mustang Dyno, get the GT2860rs or 2871 (or bigger). This is a pretty tough decision with a lot of variables. If you must keep the stock engine with softy-rods, get a cheap, used pea-shooter turbo for now and save your pennies.

Try idling in stop and go traffic and need to quickly switch lanes in 1rst gear, having boost boost right then at 2200 rpms was extremely nice. Being above 3k rpms cruising is never an issue, it was always the low gears at low speeds that having instant torque was awesome.

I am also not sure if you are the best tuner on Earth. I will gladly give you the title for Texas, but I am betting that you would have some competition from the guys at DIY for best on Earth.

One day when I get a chance to visit Texas we will swap cars. So far I have not been able to convince my boss to move me and all our hardware out there.

We'll see how much they can bench, squat, and deadlift...then we'll see who the champion is. If it's close, we'll go by test levels. I'm talking about the total of that shop of course, so they can combine every employee there to make it fair when going against me. There's is a reason I charge $5000/hour.

Everything I know about tuning I learned from this forum, on stuff that DIY built for me since I'm dumb, lol.

Completely different driving styles I guess.
For me, having the off-idle boost meant jerking around like a dumbass, constantly spinning and sliding, and then when you want to open her up, she falls on her face past 80.
When I'm in traffic/busy street and need to change lanes or speed up, the well tuned "out of boost" area of my curve had plenty of toruqe (140ish at 2k and 200ish at 3k) was more than enough to do this. I don't need boost since then you're going way too fast and wasting a ton of gas. A big turbo at 1-2psi is already moving tons of air and makes the car very peppy and responsive.
The transition into boost on the 30 was spectacular: so silky smooth, so powerful yet controlled, it was awesome. I got 30mpg when I didn't constantly redline it too, which was win. And then, in those rare occasions when the road was clear/open, or we went out with some friends to mess around and race each other, I would open her up and she would pull like a friggen freight train all the way til I let off. Brought nothing but grins to my face:D

*edit: also, the sounds a 30r with a 4" inlet makes when spooling up is...................music to my ears
the only thing that tops that is failflowers Borg s366

fwd...no traction til arond 1/2 track...id say 250whp is a pretty good estimate

right lane

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326920814

clutch let go as i hit peak boost. guy running it on the dyno let it rev up til it popped off rev limiter a few times and let off... the clutch kind of grabbed a little on decel

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...a/dynopull.jpg

that little sh!tbox MOVES.

you goin out this weekend JT?

i go out every weekend... ill need more tuning help if a friend buys my B6T head cause ill be getting those 1000cc ev14's from fiveo

Cool beans. Lets see if we could get it to spin 4th and 5th like 1-3rd LOL


Back on topic:giggle:

yea... lets see how fast i can break my 8th trans...lol

I hate you for saying this because now I'm remembering I know a machinist who wouldn't charge me for this work. And rods aren't bank breaking expensive. AND the cars already in the shop I mean I could just pull the engine take it to him and have that be that. It just seems like a crime or something to tear apart a 40,000 mile engine. No one believes it when they see it.

If you know a machinist that will hook you up then you need to throw in a set of pistons too. Renown Performance on here has a nice bundle to build a bottom end.

I've been eyeing up the SCAT rods on 949...Thats a hard price to beat. Just wondering what is the benefit to forged pistons over the stock cast? I thought the oem ones were fairly strong?

^ Its more about knock resistance then actual strength when it comes to the pistons i think. On e85 i am sure sock pistons could go way beyond what anyone would expect.

Cool, thanks for the info. I was talking to a local mechanic (he's doing a swap into an rx-7). And he told me where I could get e85 and it happens to be right by my campus. So I'll look into that as well

FTFY. I assume at some point the strength of ring lands come into play but I don't know where, nor do I really know what I'm talking about in general.


I say that E85 on stock pistons with strong rods is a good way to go if you're on a budget.

Cool I'll definitely look into it. I've heard e85 is corrosive though. Or is that not really an issue?

That is more of a long term issue, however i would replace all the rubber hoses with braided. I know a guy who did the conversion on his 03 cobra and he kept all the stock lines and everything and its still kicking 2 years later, this does not mean i would try it though, if a line splits it could be very dangerous.

Thanks for the correction and added information hustler.

I know people using it for 2+ years exclusively and no issues. Stock everything besides pump/injectors.

Good to know thanks. I think I found the turbo I'm going to try. By the looks of it, it is exactly what underdog got for his second turbo.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T3-TURBO-CHA...#ht_3431wt_986

Oil cooled only. Is that ok ya think?

nothing wrong with oil cooled only.
just idle the car for like 10-15 seconds after driving spiritedly or get a turbo timer

This

Just resurrecting this thread to say I got my turbo, my first thoughts, "damn, should've gone bigger" haha. Also my car is done being fixed. Megasquirt goes in this weekend. Then next weekend it's injectors turbo and full 2.5" exhaust unrestricted...I should learn to post pics and make a build thread or something.

Resurrecting my old thread because making a new one would be pointless.

I've been racking my brain the past couple of days trying to think of options now that I destroyed another turbo. I have the poors so I'm limited to used and china stuff. I've been scouring the dyno section as well. I've come to the conclusion that a GT2871r would suit me well but both of my manifolds are T3 flanged so I'm limited there as well.

Setup and goals:
Log manifold, 2.5" straight through exhaust, and ms2.
I do have a tubular manifold that needs finished and 3" exhaust to be made so that'll be in the future.

Uses of the car are primarily highway commuting. Well I use it for everything but I'm on the highway a lot. It will never be raced or autocrossed other then maybe for fun

I have vvt's but I'm not controlling it. That plus bad boost control is costing me a bunch of power. So short question. Do I buy another ebay turbo that I had before, then vvt's so I can make real powers? I had this turbo T3 INTERNAL WASTEGATE TURBO CHARGER .48ar

I don't mind my powerband but I feel like it's bad for the size of the turbo. I'm not entirely sure if it's because of it being ebay (saw dyno's etc of ebays always being outperformed by genuine turbo's) bad boost control, or vvt's, or all of them combined.

So I was looking at craigslist and saw a of turbonetic's T3/T4 57 trim turbo's. When I talked to the owner he said it was on a crx before and made 300whp at 13psi. So I'd be running like 8psi which wouldn't even get me into a good efficiency range

Basically is a bigger turbo worth it? Or would you prefer a smaller turbo but more boost? In my mind I wouldn't mind a bigger turbo but I feel at the low power level I'll be running that it might be a little pointless.

Hopefully this makes a little bit of sense.