1.6L - T3 ChinaTarder on MS3X 236hp/235tq - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-13-2010, 11:19 PM   #1
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Default 1.6L - T3 ChinaTarder on MS3X 236hp/235tq

Win!

not too shabby for a $170 turbo running OTS parts. Only change from before is running Seq. Fuel. I ran on this same dyno in March and I'm happy with the power it's outputting. Same boost, same setup, like I said, only major change is running seq. fuel and a tightened timing belt . It's running the same spark map - just a lot more fine tuning.





Below is a comparison of when I run wastegate, which is around 10psi, and when I flip on my boost solenoid.



My wategate numbers are very close to my best run at high boost in March...



numbers are corrected 12% to match all my dynojet numbers.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:04 AM   #2
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Good spool and good power. Props to you sir.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:28 AM   #3
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Gotta love it when you gain 15+whp without raising pressure or increasing timing.

I'm a complete n00b to sequential injection: whats "the fuss" about it? Just more accurate/precise opening/closing times?
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:27 AM   #4
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Each cylinder only squirts once per cycle and I have a timing map that injects it based on the crank position. More efficiency.


I think these results are pretty good for this cheap *** 50 trim. Judging by the way the torque drops and based on my boost plot, there's not much more it can really output.

My boost plot shows this run around 13.8-14psi on average, then after 6K it slowly rises to 15psi to redline...I do this to try to battle the torque drop, but to no avail.



disregard the AFR readings, my first run was majorly rich, and it seems my sensor is a good 1 point off from their readings...I was shooting black smoke; I need to recalibrate and figure out why, this happened last time I was there and could explain my sub-par MPG.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:35 AM   #5
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And here's why I still haven't removed the Chinacharger. The setup is still more or less the same between these, I've added a cat since then. This run was on MS-I and my Garrett 60 trim turbo. This is the best dyno for comparison since it was the same relative boost level:



I'm still curious to refit the garrett parts, but I enjoy all my "low-end" too much. I've never had torque that plots as high as my HP outputs and it's damn fun. Considering I have a stock block and I'm at 96%DC on my 460cc injectors...I think the setup is great.

Last edited by Braineack; 11-14-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:55 PM   #6
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very decent torque!
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:44 PM   #7
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Man that looks like a blast to drive. Honestly, I don't think i've seen a miata with equal torque and horsepower, is that something that is not easy to achieve or am I just crazy?
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Man that looks like a blast to drive. Honestly, I don't think i've seen a miata with equal torque and horsepower, is that something that is not easy to achieve or am I just crazy?
I think that's just on this dyno. Look at his MAT temps, they peak at 150F but are at about 85F at his torque peak! Looks like the dyno run was a very long pull, and it heat soaked his intercooler more than usual. I bet his Gair # went down to .85 on this run.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
Man that looks like a blast to drive. Honestly, I don't think i've seen a miata with equal torque and horsepower, is that something that is not easy to achieve or am I just crazy?
My 1.6 made 298/296.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
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My 1.6 made 298/296.
Well then, lol, I stand corrected
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo View Post
I think that's just on this dyno. Look at his MAT temps, they peak at 150F but are at about 85F at his torque peak! Looks like the dyno run was a very long pull, and it heat soaked his intercooler more than usual. I bet his Gair # went down to .85 on this run.

no, it's really a function of the smaller compressor wheel and moving the heat efficiency to a lower RPM. You'll see a shape like this with smaller turbos...look at 2554 dynos:

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...M_Shanghai.png
http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...233hp235tq.png
http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...7_S3_Labor.png

The high intake temps might have effected the top end output negativrly, but probably not by much. I need to see logs from others of the day to see if they had the same high AIT issue if it wasn't just an undersized fan being used or if I really should step up to a bigger intercooler.

It was a 60-65*F day out during that pull, I hardly see over 120*F on a 90*F day going through gears in boost.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:07 AM   #12
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What I was trying to say in the burrito place is- did you let the wideband warm up before you calibrated it? When you free air, some widebands will not read full lean until you let it heat up for a minute or two.

Also, on the street, can you feel the power dropping off up high? I'd think it would only be really noticeable in 3rd+ gear.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:24 AM   #13
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No, it was a brand new sensor, so it did the free-air cold outside of the exhaust piping. Then it did heater calibration for the first time cold installed it in pipe. That's all you're supposed to do with the lc-1.

I have a feeling it might have been an issue with Gair enrichments. When I got on the street my dash gauge was reading 12.1-11.8:1 in boost on the highway coming home still. When I get around to it I'll reevaluate my grounds and see if there's any discrepancy between my gauge and the MS readings and recalibrate it and whatnot.

It was funny to gain over 10rwhp from just removing fuel.

I don't really feel the power tape off that much since it's the most I've ever outputted in 4 years, but I can tell. I feel the initial torque surge and then the pull to redline just feels normal. Whatever the case I really enjoy this output, I like the mid-range torque for my DD.

I'd love to try to figure out how to get the boost onset to be more linear so the power from 2000-3600RPM is more of a straight line, not a curve up.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:31 AM   #14
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turbine specs of the t3 turbo you are running brain?
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:35 AM   #15
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eBay 50 trim turbo:
compressor: 42mm in. and 60mm ex
turbine: 45mm exducer and 63.5mm inducer.

Garret 50 trim turbo:
compressor: 42mm in. and 60mm ex
turbine: 48.7mm exducer and 59mm inducer.


the turbines are nearly identical. they have nearly the exact same size exducer, I couldn't measure a difference. the profile of the blades looks identical to my eye, the only different is the inducer blades extend an extra 5mm...have no clue if that's good or bad.






The compressor blades measure the same from China to Garrett, however the leading blade on the ebay turbo has more angle of rotation and the blades line up. You can see the gaps between the blades on the garrett turbo (left) where the leading blade doesn't extend as far as the lower blade.



again, dunno if this hurts or helps.


Casting on the CHRA is identical. Hard to tell the difference. Casts for turbine housing and compressor housing are easy to tell the difference. But they aren't very important.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:54 AM   #16
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Oh you know what...I did install that huge muffler between those runs.. I'm pretty sure that's why my boost isn't as linear since I put that 180* bend on the exhaust. This is exactly what Savington noted when he fit it.

whatever the case, it still makes one hell of a 1.6L DD.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:51 AM   #17
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ZOMG. I need more praise!
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:23 AM   #18
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Is that the same turbo eliminator runs? He always refers to it as "50 trim".
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:04 AM   #19
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he has a t3/t4 50 trim.

i have a t3 50 trim difference of about 11mm.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Win!...
only major change is running seq. fuel and a tightened timing belt . It's running the same spark map - just a lot more fine tuning.
Yeah, I feel like I need more of this in my life. I may be in touch for an upgrade
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