Old School S-AFC (5-Knob) on 1990 NA6 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-30-2013, 01:32 PM   #1
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Default Old School S-AFC (5-****) on 1990 NA6

Hey Guys,

Quick Intro - if you don't care skip down
Been on the site a little bit over 5 years. Over the last 10 years I've owned/built multiple SE-R/NX2000/240sx/200sx (a few turbo), old school protege, saab 92-x, and currently a modified SF turbo forester. Got out of the car game and started playing with motorcycles and racing supermoto. Well, Picked up a Miata last year broken and have since fixed it up. Initially I planned to sell it, but somehow or another this thing turned into my other daily driver. (go fig). People think it's funny watching my big *** pop in and out of this thing like a clown car. I'm amazed that this little 1.6 combined with the peg legger out back is so damned fun. Anyway...

Fast forward...
Been driving the **** out of the car. Replaced more broken things... This thing won't die. It is awesome. Bought cheap wheels, replaced suspension with some NB top hats and coils, fixing a new replacement top I got, replaced blown radiator with a mishimoto, have a set of bumpers to replace my dimpled one... This thing has revived my mod bug. After a year or so I decided... EFF it. I'm boosting it. I found a few parts from my previous builds along the years to keep things under budget (curse that word)... so in the process of sourcing all of my parts I found a gt2560r from an s14, I have an externally gated t2 manifold on the way (no it's not ebay), and a freekin 5-**** Super-AFC from god knows when (don't even remember buying it!)...

Cliff NOTES *Seriously, STFU and ask the question*
Has anyone ever installed the old school SAFC (the old school with no screen, 5-**** box) on an NA6? I already know it has not high/low boost/throttle position inputs, or timing advantages... But right now it's what I have to subtract/add a little fuel for the time being.

Plans are to run the setup externally gated on minimal boost pressure (4lbs if possible) until after winter.

Reason I ask is because there isn't much info anywhere on this old system, and the original instruction don't include the B6 years, however I've read information that people have used them in the past. I want to know which Vehicle Setting Table I can use.

Please refrain from the "you are going to blow it up", "eat **** ricer", "... you are dumb... don't buy that crap... buy MSPNP/Emanage/MS3/Eprom/etc.", "ERRMEHGOD, Search blah blah blah, I found this in two seconds... -Links-" comments. Yes, I'm an old ricer I know. Done the car forum thing for 11 years, moderated a couple... I get it.

Now that that's clear... I appreciate any insight I can get on this.

This is the module I'm talking about


This is my heap/POS. Yes I am an old ricer
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:36 PM   #2
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Solid post, but don't expect that to work anywhere close to correctly on a VAF car like what you have. Voltage ranges are entirely wrong to work with that sort of thing.

I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:37 PM   #3
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you are going to blow it up
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:41 PM   #4
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you knew the answers already when you made this thread, so I'll spare you the truth
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Solid post, but don't expect that to work anywhere close to correctly on a VAF car like what you have. Voltage ranges are entirely wrong to work with that sort of thing.

I'll give you $20 for it just to add to my collection of terrible old JDM y0 t00ning boxes, though.
This explains why it's only for the na8 lol... I totally f'n forgot about the VAF DAMMIT! Fk. I'm going to frame this bitch. It belongs in a museum. We'll there goes my 'free' "management" dreams... Man, all those OP edits for nothing lol.
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you are going to blow it up
I hate you.

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you knew the answers already when you made this thread, so I'll spare you the truth
No I didn't. Don't spare anything... **** in my cereal. It is sounding like a MegaSquirt type deal is my best option.

Last edited by Meeners; 10-30-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:46 PM   #6
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Also, nobody here would ever tell you to use emanage, that **** is garbage too. EEPROM is not a possibility, although I wish it was. Nobody has hacked this ECU like they have with the DSMs and Hondas.
You have on option, and you already know what it is.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:50 PM   #7
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I hesitate to post this here, but do you know what WOULD work?

HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.

You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.

With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.

Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.

Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.

EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY



Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I hesitate to post this here, but do you know what WOULD work?

HKS made both a VPC and a PFC FCON for this car. There's a dude on Clubroadster that has two of the VPCs for sale, i believe WITH the PNP harness.

You could get that, stack a GCC or POTENTIALLY wire the S-AFC into the HKS unit as you would with a GCC, and it should work.

With the VPC, you'd remove the VAF as well.

Would i bother with any of this on a Miata? **** no. Is it out there? Yes.

Do i use this **** to make obscene amounts of power on my MX6? Yep.

EMPLOYING THE STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY



Don't be a chump, get a Megasquirt. And seriously... gimme that S-AFC.
I love you... If I can get a replacement, maybe I will
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:05 PM   #9
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Get super fancy and control timing as well.





Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.




And a chip burner.






What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #10
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zomg look at that old chip burner! ******* paralel port that's classic!

this is what they look like now:

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Old 10-30-2013, 02:19 PM   #11
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Yeah i'm actually going to buy a "new" Genie that's USB, so that should be pretty ******* sweet.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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just convert to carbs.

screw efi altogether
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Yeah i'm actually going to buy a "new" Genie that's USB, so that should be pretty ******* sweet.
What do you work on that uses a "chipped" ECU?
Ive been around it a little bit because tw34k used to chip and tune Hondas all the time. The reverse engineering done by the guys on pgmfi.org all those years ago is really astounding.

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just convert to carbs.

screw efi altogether
Im not sure what is worse, blow through carbs or a pile of piggybacks. Its really hard to say, they are both just so bad.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #14
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All the HKS PFCs and VPCs use chips, and i run chipped ECUs on both the MX6s. Someone years ago had come close to fully "unlocking" the ECU on the MX6s a la Honda + Crome, but stopped at being able to use the Ostrich for something or other.

80% of the work was done.

Oh well.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Get super fancy and control timing as well.





Or.... find the 4 digit code of the chip and what other cars shared the harness plugs and i can probably put something together for you. I have a few spares.




And a chip burner.






What will all this cost you? The same as a Megasquirt if not slightly more.
Or a barely used (within the last 8 years) minty fresh (for it's age) 5-**** Super-AFC

The VPC and Timing Retard is simple and isn't tuning gold, but the car is 20 years old and just something to play around with... I don't even know why I'm arguing with myself about keeping things simple, other than principle. It's so simple it makes me druel.

In all seriousness, I know it's simple principle, but if I did go that route it would be as simple as running the VAF, adjusting manual timing, throw on a wideband (which i have). Installing the boost retarder, Iat, and is that a map sensor I see in the pic? and going? I know it's stupid but I love the homage with the old technology. It worked back then approach...

As far as theChip route, it would be as simple as running a motz burner and software to make chips I presume. As far as the tunes though, what would I use to create the programs? I was a fan of the chipped stuff on my old SE-R. Burn, adjust, burn, adjust... but my car was uber dependable... I had no worries like a mid 2000's rap star. I don't know why but I love old school stuff.

The reality is I'm sure the MS is better, and is probably better regarding expandability if I add things on. The old school stuff is probably discontinued as eff, but in all honesty, I've had somewhat fast cars and I'm over it. A good 180whp in a miata I'm sure would be enough. I like simple things, manual buttons, and switches. Woe is me.

*famous last words, lies to self, I've said this one before, in before first motor swap, in before blown diff*

Sounds like everyone follows the consensus that VAF/Flap type sucks? I guess i should be on the lookout for a simple megasquirt PNP and just chalk the VAF. I apologize for the ignorance, but I've never messed with VAF + Turbo before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
just convert to carbs.

screw efi altogether
Guys, do you know where I can get a weber or edelbrock that fits the na6 manifold?

Last edited by Meeners; 10-30-2013 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Because I like to...
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #16
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Or a barely used (within the last 8 years) minty fresh (for it's age) 5-**** Super-AFC

In all seriousness, I know it's simple principle, but if I did go this route, it would be as simple as running a motz burner and software to make chips I presume. As far as the tunes though, what would I use to create the programs?
You're not looking at this correctly. The chips in your case would be for the HKS stuff, as there are no chips available for your NA6 ECU. You don't really "tune" the HKS chips, you use the various millions of add-on boxes after that to "tune."

Also: I can get that AFC for $30 or less pretty consistently, soo.... you're high if you think i'm going to trade a complete custom PFC setup for one.

Quote:
I was a fan of the chipped stuff on my old SE-R. Burn, adjust, burn, adjust... but my car was uber dependable... I had no worries like a mid 2000's rap star. I don't know why but I love old school stuff.
Not available for your car.

Quote:
The reality is I'm sure the MS is better, and is probably better regarding expandability if I add things on. But in all honesty, I've had somewhat fast cars and I'm over it. A good 180whp in a miata I'm sure would be enough

*famous last words, lies to self, I've said this one before, in before first motor swap, in before blown diff*

Sounds like everyone follows the consensus that VAF/Flap type sucks? I guess i should be on the lookout for a simple megasquirt PNP and just chalk the VAF. I apologize for the ignorance, but I've never messed with VAF + Turbo before.
Flappers suck. They're not real accurate, have a wide range of what's "acceptable," which is both their achilles heel and their crutch. I like what they allow me to do when bastardized. I'd like even more to have the support there to completely ditch it, with a large amount of people to serve as support when i run into issues.

Oh... oh wait.


Quote:
Guys, do you know where I can get a weber or edelbrock that fits the na6 manifold?
No, but you could absolutely run them n/a a la IRTB.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #17
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I'm surprised a mod hasn't changed the title to "WTB: Megasquirt for 1990 Miata"
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:59 PM   #18
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I'm sure you can request that change.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You're not looking at this correctly. The chips in your case would be for the HKS stuff, as there are no chips available for your NA6 ECU. You don't really "tune" the HKS chips, you use the various millions of add-on boxes after that to "tune."
The top part I understand. I meant if I purchased the HKS unit.

I see (hks chip tuning)

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Also: I can get that AFC for $30 or less pretty consistently, soo.... you're high if you think i'm going to trade a complete custom PFC setup for one.
That part was a joke my friend.

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Not available for your car.
Booo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Flappers suck. They're not real accurate, have a wide range of what's "acceptable," which is both their achilles heel and their crutch. I like what they allow me to do when bastardized. I'd like even more to have the support there to completely ditch it, with a large amount of people to serve as support when i run into issues.

Oh... oh wait.
Werd

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No, but you could absolutely run them n/a a la IRTB.
Built and Carbed Miata would sound nasty with ITB. I've never heard the term ITB and budget in the same thread. Heard it here first.


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I'm sure you can request that change.
I like this guy. hehe.

<-- guy trying to re-re-reinvent the nostalgic wheel out
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:11 PM   #20
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Hey look, budget ITBs.

~$500 in the entire setup. (Purchased used, that's the key.)

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