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Old 04-13-2016, 09:47 AM   #21
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Slightly off topic but what about ceramic coating on the turbine housing. Can that be bad for the bearings/seals too? I was planning on having Swaintech coat my EFR turbine but haven't yet.
My swain is falling apart on the manifold collector. I question if I'll ever get this done again.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:57 AM   #22
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Slightly off topic but what about ceramic coating on the turbine housing. Can that be bad for the bearings/seals too? I was planning on having Swaintech coat my EFR turbine but haven't yet.
I would guess no since the turbine housing is semi separate from the bearings where as the blanket radiates the heat back under a nice cozy baking oven. Only the turbine goes into the housing Good point though, doing only manifold & downpipe sounds ideal.

*Side note, having it coated may allow more heat expansion & higher turbine flow.

***And.... This thread https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...coating-75331/

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Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
My swain is falling apart on the manifold collector. I question if I'll ever get this done again.
Can't you send it back to have it repaired? I'd guess since it was at the collector, that was the hottest part and it over expanded from high heat.

Last edited by Girz0r; 04-13-2016 at 10:04 AM. Reason: trubos
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:59 AM   #23
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Hmm.. Was that unused when you had it coated and is it stainless or mild steel? Seen a few people mention issues with it but not too many. Most stuff I've read was fairly positive.

I'd thought about getting a blanket too but am rethinking that now. Good thread.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:00 PM   #24
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They say there's nothing to repair that's the way it is. It'd have to be stripped entirely and recoated.

Mild steel, brand spanking new. They would have prepped it before application. Expensive for its run time.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:03 PM   #25
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They say there's nothing to repair that's the way it is. It'd have to be stripped entirely and recoated.

Mild steel, brand spanking new. They would have prepped it before application. Expensive for its run time.
Thats some BS. How many miles on that manifold.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:05 PM   #26
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They say there's nothing to repair that's the way it is. It'd have to be stripped entirely and recoated.


I see your point now.

So I wonder then what the point of the 'white on top' is if it's considered ok to flake like that?
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:26 PM   #27
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My swain is falling apart on the manifold collector. I question if I'll ever get this done again.
Photos?
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Old 04-13-2016, 04:50 PM   #28
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Photos?
Here
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:24 PM   #29
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Looks like blistering and/or dry spray, as it looks like bare steel under the coating (cant be sure from just the photos), and while it might just be the shadow from the lifted area, and the type of coating they used, it seems quite thick where it is flaking, and that is a common failure point with ceramic filled coatings, if excessive in mils it will crack/flake once in use.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:48 PM   #30
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I swained the EFR housing. Its cool to see everything white on the dyno except for the wastegate flapper arm glowing bright red. The swain was actually the only thing hold my turbo flange to my collector at one point because the stainless had cracked straight through. That **** was a bitch to grind off so I could weld it back together.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:12 AM   #31
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Looks like blistering and/or dry spray, as it looks like bare steel under the coating (cant be sure from just the photos), and while it might just be the shadow from the lifted area, and the type of coating they used, it seems quite thick where it is flaking, and that is a common failure point with ceramic filled coatings, if excessive in mils it will crack/flake once in use.
Never mind.

I found out they use a Zircotec type of coating, which is plasma sprayed. We do stuff like that along with TSA (Thermal sprayed aluminum), as such it tends to have a rough almost over spray like texture. With that being said, the flaking is NOT normal, and is a coating failure, the manifold should have actually failed before the coating assuming no high expansion materials were used in the construction of the manifold. How old is this coating? Most thermal sprays have extremely long life because they are 100% solids and those solids are almost always 100% composed of the single component, in this case ceramic, which is total inert to most chemicals etc so the most probable reason for the failure is poor surface prep or the sprayer not working right, in many cases not getting the material to temp resulting in poor flowout and surface contact, could also be surface contamination, something like oil or chlorides on the surface that was not cleaned before application.
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Old 04-14-2016, 10:41 AM   #32
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Never mind.

I found out they use a Zircotec type of coating, which is plasma sprayed. We do stuff like that along with TSA (Thermal sprayed aluminum), as such it tends to have a rough almost over spray like texture. With that being said, the flaking is NOT normal, and is a coating failure, the manifold should have actually failed before the coating assuming no high expansion materials were used in the construction of the manifold. How old is this coating? Most thermal sprays have extremely long life because they are 100% solids and those solids are almost always 100% composed of the single component, in this case ceramic, which is total inert to most chemicals etc so the most probable reason for the failure is poor surface prep or the sprayer not working right, in many cases not getting the material to temp resulting in poor flowout and surface contact, could also be surface contamination, something like oil or chlorides on the surface that was not cleaned before application.

Application was back in 2014. That being said the car hasn't been running for more than a year continuously due to blown motor and two rebuilds. It's seen one summer and a fall season. Sat out through winter

Can I sent to you for recoating? Swaintech doesn't want to touch this without another $250+ dollars. They've removed themselves from liability saying that it's still a superior coating since some of it is still present. (though I paid for all of the coverage)
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:07 AM   #33
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Application was back in 2014. That being said the car hasn't been running for more than a year continuously due to blown motor and two rebuilds. It's seen one summer and a fall season. Sat out through winter

Can I sent to you for recoating? Swaintech doesn't want to touch this without another $250+ dollars. They've removed themselves from liability saying that it's still a superior coating since some of it is still present. (though I paid for all of the coverage)
LOL, good God, I would laugh in their face if they claimed that with me, it is not a superior coating if parts (large parts at that) have failed, and makes the rest of the coating suspect. A coating failure is a failure, no matter the size. This is the same as having your car painted and in a year the hood starts peeling, and then coming back and saying "but most of the cars paint is still intact and as such is still a superior coating".

I give them props for the amount of spin they put on that though, that alone is amazing. Will also be sure to never send anything to them. Also, they can say what they want, that does NOT legally remove them from liability, you should definitely push back on this for them to recoat the item, free of charge. I would also request the coatings reports for your part, along with a copy of their Quality ITP (Inspection and test plan), this will probably put them on their toes and might get them to grant the recoat request, big time if they don't have one (or at least don't pencil whip one), because they then have no proof proper procedure was followed.

As for my shop, we do not deal with individual items, most of the stuff we coat are minimum 1,000sqft boilers etc etc, we cater to the oil and gas field, I am a certified coatings inspector for our south yard. Believe me, if the equipment could do something as small as a header, my headers would be coated already, they do have a field unit that uses a hand sprayer, but I have never seen it and as its a field unit I have no access to it....If I did, I would probably be making some side money.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:08 PM   #34
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Believe me, if the equipment could do something as small as a header, my headers would be coated already, they do have a field unit that uses a hand sprayer, but I have never seen it and as its a field unit I have no access to it....If I did, I would probably be making some side money.
Side $$ with employer's equipment is a good way to be unemployed.
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Old 04-14-2016, 02:40 PM   #35
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Side $$ with employer's equipment is a good way to be unemployed.
For most people, probably.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:02 PM   #36
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My Swain from 2014 hasn't cracked like that but I haven't done as many track events as you have probably (just one for me). I do have the same type of thing where it looks like its almost growing hairs of sorts. The only place I have it missing is a spot where I wacked it with the wrench putting the manifold on, but it hasn't even chipped there. I wonder if there is any coating under the white that is perhaps working to insulate heat anyway, but that is pretty disappointing.

I'm definitely going to build a box for over the turbo and attach it similarly to the FM one as someone had suggested. Any suggestions for material to use? Thickness? Put any coating on that box? Maybe that shiny tape? Inside or outside or both?
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:04 PM   #37
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My Swain from 2014 hasn't cracked like that but I haven't done as many track events as you have probably (just one for me). I do have the same type of thing where it looks like its almost growing hairs of sorts. The only place I have it missing is a spot where I wacked it with the wrench putting the manifold on, but it hasn't even chipped there. I wonder if there is any coating under the white that is perhaps working to insulate heat anyway, but that is pretty disappointing.

I'm definitely going to build a box for over the turbo and attach it similarly to the FM one as someone had suggested. Any suggestions for material to use? Thickness? Put any coating on that box? Maybe that shiny tape? Inside or outside or both?

There is no coating under, no need for it, the coating is plasma sprayed ceramic.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:23 PM   #38
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This material works extremley well, it has ceramic fivers sanwiched between two aluminum sheets, it was the best performing heat shield i tested when testing heat shields at 3m




Aluminum Rigid Heat Shields | Thermal Control Products
My friend just pulled something that looks like this from the bottom of a Mercedes SUV, it is just thin and I don't think has any fibers in the middle. We're going to use it for the time being.

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Old 04-21-2016, 01:01 PM   #39
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The multi layer aluminum sheled works very well too, you will be happy with the results
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:58 AM   #40
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It's just a single layer, came out of a Mercedes S-Class actually, buddy said it was near the fuel tank somewhere. Here's where we got so far, trimmed it and bent, just need to mount somehow. I'm not too sure this little piece is going to do a ton, so I'm not really trying 100% pretty since I'll probably upgrade it it something else down the road.





There is also literally almost no room between the brake line and the downpipe to shove this piece through, so we'll probably have to make something else for that spot, or wrap the downpipe (maybe you can give some insight on whether that works or not.
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