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Old 03-26-2008, 08:31 AM   #1
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Default PWR Twincooler or not?

Hi there...

I am need of some more cooling for my greddy-turboed mx5. I have an IC in front of my radiator, and had big problems with heat on longer trackdays...

Question is whether to go for a 600$ PWR Twincooler or get a 37mm koyo and a custom-fitted Mocal oilcooler

Any ideas? I guess cooling capacity will probably be a tad better with the separate oilcooler, but is it worth all the custom mount hassle?

Last edited by stian; 03-26-2008 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:01 AM   #2
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Bigger rad & BEGI coolant re-route?
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:23 AM   #3
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"big problems with heat" - that means oil and coolant temps were elevated?

I'd say first, be sure that oncoming air is going through the exchangers by sealing up all the shrouding in the mouth.

I think that PWR twin cooler will address temp issues (and if your coolant temp is high, I'm sure the oil temp is elevated). As usual, I think it's just a question of time or money. You can definitely build something that is at least equally effective for less dough (since you still need to buy a lot of the oil connector parts). The setup I'm working on uses a "circle track" Ford dubl pass, dubl core rad and a big Mercedes oil cooler. Rad - $225, cooler with AN bungs <$100 and lines/sandwich plate - $100. But I've got more than $200 worth of my time in all this.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:43 AM   #4
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i dont think the twin cooler itself would help a lot, just think of all the stock miata guys having issues with temps on track...
i would go for the bigger radiater (GS-should be around $200 shipped to europe) and a re-route
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:59 AM   #5
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How could it not? It's a double core radiator (about 60-70% capacity increase since it's narrower) AND a big oil cooler vs. the stock single core radiator and no oil cooler.

btw- that specific unit is for the NB, which means more work to make it fit.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:14 AM   #6
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sovvy-i fail at following links, i assumed a twin cooler was something totaly different, you are right, either one of those will do
i would still make sure its all shrouded properly
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:15 AM   #7
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I say, in this order:
oil cooler with slip on fittings from a plumbing shop & coolant reroute
seal off the mouth around the rad and undertray
big rad
vented hood
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:44 AM   #8
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What needs to be known are actually temps.

Do you not fear the absence of positive locking lines on an oiling system? I know slip ons w/barbs work fine for RVs on the interstate, but I'd be thinking about every curb I hit while on track. (you do hit curbs don't you?)
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:24 PM   #9
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Thanks for all feedback! I was planning on doing both the TwinCooler and the reroute once they get that kit ready. I hope that it will be possible to make the kit work with the twincooler as well. Saw a couple of requests for this at M.net. I also need to find a proper fan-solution as my car dont have the AC fan. I've seen a dual-fan with shroud somewhere, but it was quite expensive...

Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
"big problems with heat" - that means oil and coolant temps were elevated?
Both were elevated after a while, but what stopped me was coolant temps as it by the end of the day climbed up to the high-end of the stock gauge after only a couple of hot laps. This was after an hour cool-down period...

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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
btw- that specific unit is for the NB, which means more work to make it fit.
They have a NA-version too, but the image was missing on that one, thats why I linked to the NB version :-)
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #10
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Does anyone know if this will be fitting to the Twincooler?
https://www.jaycorptech.com/showprod...x?productid=14

Or is it better to pay up for something like this:
http://fatcatmotorsports.com/fanshroud.htm
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:51 PM   #11
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i agree with hustler, just dont do too crazy if you vent ur hood
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:41 AM   #12
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So has anybody actually tried a PWR Twin Cooler?

I run a 200 hp SC'd 1.8 Miata on track and cannot get oil temps under control. My objective is to get 210*F water, 240*F oil on a 105*F, 100% humidity day.

I have tried 8 1/2 x 11 x 1 1/2 B&M bar plate coolers in the following locations:

A) Horizontal between the bottom of the rad and steering rack with air scoop fabbed in under tray. No vented hood.

B) In place of RHS rad fan. No vented hood.

C) Both locations in series. No vented hood. The undertray was "swiss cheesed" to permit air to flow from high pressure under the hood to low pressure under the car.

I have tried 4 1/2 x 8 1/2x 1 1/2 B&M bar plate cooler

D) Above FMIC behind hood latch with air holes cut in bumper cover and vented hood. Can't fit anything bigger there.

In all of the above applications I have had the area between the core support and radiator sealed off as well as around the sides and bottom of radiator. It has been commented that I may could improve side sealing a little better.

All of the above resulted in 240 max oil temps on track as long as the ambient temp didn't go above ~85. Track styles matter too. Tracks without any long straight aways to let the car "rest" are harder on the temps. East Coast examples of "hotter" tracks would be VIR South, CMP & Roebling Road.

I really thought option D had the problem solved until last month at CMP when I hit 280*F oil temps again.

I've been currently considering putting a cooler in the rear of the car, maybe like a reverse Porshe 911 oil cooler (engine front/cooler rear vs engine rear/cooler front)

While this is a pretty trick looking design,

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2255667

I'm not so sure how well it would fair in an encounter with a tire wall.

I'd like some "witnessing" to how the PWR twin cooler works before plunking down the coin for one. So...has anybody really bought one and been satisfied?

As a side note, I've been running a 37mm Koyo w/o reroute for 2+ years. I have had water temp issues all along - if the oil went high, the water would go high - up to 250*F. I'd either back off a few laps to drop temps or just go to the pits if backing off didn't work well enough. I recently did a reroute. Last month, when my oil temps hit 280*F, my water didn't go over 235*F. I consider that a minor victory.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:34 PM   #13
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My radiator has ports to use for a automatic trans cooler. My car is a 5-speed, I should be able to attach oil lines to this and use it for a oil cooler? Right?
I would probably have to use more oil with oil change. But It should work????
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:48 PM   #14
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The lines on the automatic rad aren't large enough. I think you be introducing a significant restriction to your setup.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrroadster View Post
So has anybody actually tried a PWR Twin Cooler?
.
I've had an FM twincooler for years. Unfortunately, I didn;'t run without one so it's hard to comment. My first instinct is that a seperate oil cooler is the way to go. I like the twin cooler, it gets lots of looks, and for someone like me who doens't track the car, it does a good job of keeping both temps down. I still had plenty of overheating issues until I really went in there and did some excellent ducting. Once I did that, I had no more overheating, in fact, I couldn't get the fans to come on unless I just hit stop and go after a hill climb.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/gallery/180...90182578_MNkgt Many photos have additional text describing them.

I wired my fans together (it's easy, a small guage wire on the back of the ECU to tie the relays together would be how I'd do it, if I did it again), and of course I run water wetter and all the rest.

But it seems you're just taking space away from the water cooling for that oil coler - sure it's big, but...

Also, I think what's limiting you is your hood. Either slope up the back like some ricer, or get an extraction hood - I've heard nothing but good things about it. If you're not getting a lot of flow through the oil cooler, it'll limit you. Also, some oil thermostats can be pretty limiting, if you're mainly tracking the car, make sure to take it out.

I also have a remove oil filter, I don't know how much cooling it could possibly do, but it's one data point. My oil temps now basically never get hot, unless I lose the fans or the water gets out of control. In short if water OR oil is hot, I don't worry (to a point) but if they both are then I have to keep an eye on it.
------------
Did I mention I like that one in the driving light hole? I would do that in a heatbeat. Lots of air flow.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:26 PM   #16
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Called FM this afternoon. I'd noticed they no longer offer Twin Coolers on their site and was interested as to why. No big deal they just ran out.

We did go on and discuss the issue and the consensus was that for a track car the Twin Cooler was not desireable because of the reduced amount of cooling water.

Having the hot oil conducting heat to the water via the adjacent coolers probably doesn't help things either.

They went on to say they had an oil cooler kit they were about to have available. They told me it was located horizontally at a bit of an angle behind the bottom of the radiator, near the steering rack. They said the location was chosen because it was the most universal.

I asked how it would cool in that location since I have tried something similar without success. I think he replied convectively. I told him I had unsuccessfullly tried something similar with a B&M cooler and he didn't counter offer with try my cooler, it's better - so we'll see.

So I guess it's time to try a cooler location in the rear of the car. I'm thinking about using aluminum conduit clamped to the Power Plant Frame to get it routed to the back. There's a big heat sink for ya. If I'm lucky I'll be over cooling and be forced to use an oil t-stat.
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:36 AM   #17
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Abe, what is that black plastic stuff and where did you get it? Looks like what I was looking for the other day.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:36 PM   #18
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No surprise there, about them putting it where they can make one kit and saying it'll work for everyone. Go find a picture of their "track dog" and see where they mount theirs. :-)

I really like the idea of putting it in the fog light hole. Cut a hole in front of it if you don't want it to crush on impact?

Still, an extraction hood always helps cooling, you pay the smallest of aerodynamic penalties (and that's perhaps somewhat adjustable) and I could see mounting the oil cooler there in that exhaust vent.

Either way, I see that as being your answer. For my street use, I think the cross talk between oil and water are good - keeps either from outrunning the other.


Now as to the black plastic - yes, it's awesome. You can form it with a heat gun and it holds, and it's strong enough to rivet to with a washer.

...But in the great email-deletion of ought-7 I forget what/where it is. I still have the .pst files, but I haven't figured out (short of installing office 2k7) how to get at it all. I remember having to buy $50 worth, and I used maybe 1/3 of it. It's worth tracking down, though, it's great stuff.

Check m.net or miatapower mailing list - I know the later is where I found out where to get it.
-Abe.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddcod View Post
My radiator has ports to use for a automatic trans cooler. My car is a 5-speed, I should be able to attach oil lines to this and use it for a oil cooler? Right?
I would probably have to use more oil with oil change. But It should work????
i believe they are too restrictive and will drop pressure.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
i believe they are too restrictive and will drop pressure.
I had always wondered the same thing but assumed there was a reason why noone did this. Do you know for sure that they are to restrictive or has noone ever tried it that we know of? I wouldn't think that the auto trans would have too terribly much less flow than the motor, but i guess it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
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