Recommended A/R Turbine size w/long tube headers - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-07-2015, 03:56 PM   #1
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default Recommended A/R Turbine size w/long tube headers

I would like to know what is the most recommended A/R turbine size for 1.8 engines with long tube headers with some many turbo sizes is not easy to match a turbo with a long tube header manifold.

The engine is a 1.8. Please post the size of your turbo, A/R turbine size and spool characteristics for that particular turbo with long tube manifold. Moving from a log manifold to tubular exhaust I actually lost midrange power with this present set up.

The car will not be used for autocross or road course. It's for a street car

Thanks!
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 05:20 PM   #2
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,159
Total Cats: 131
Default

What is your current setup? What turbo, what A/R?
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 05:50 PM   #3
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

I don't have a turbo yet. All I have is the exhaust manifold, downpipe, and everything else. I am going to buy a turbo but that depends on the feedback I get from this board. The car is fully built except the turbo.

I sm going to either a GTX2863 or 2867, no EFR turbo here
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 05:59 PM   #4
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,159
Total Cats: 131
Default

Very few people use those turbos, so the data is still out. However, there are quite a few that run the 2871/76 so if that is useful I don't know.

Here is the most recent "spool" data from the "I want your spool data" thread. Mind you, this doesn't tell you power, only how fast it achieved a target PSI.

Attached Thumbnails
Recommended A/R Turbine size w/long tube headers-117585d1404977044-i-want-your-spool-data-spooldata_zpse07293ef.jpg  
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 08:53 PM   #5
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

Thank you for the graph, however it doesn't say much about A/R turbine size. I guess I am gonna have to search each member's build thread to see what turbo combination is in the car.
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 11:10 AM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Staunton, Va
Posts: 2,407
Total Cats: 201
Default

I don't understand, how did you lose power from log to tube, if it isn't turbo yet? Did I miss something? ??
ryansmoneypit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 11:16 AM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

I don't get it. Are you looking for a turbo recommendation based on one small piece of information that's useless without context? Or a recommendation on what meaningless ratio without context we should give based on one small piece of information that's meaningless without context?

Please advise.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:02 PM   #8
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

to answer some of these questions let me say the following. I owned several turbo kits

1. FM manifold with 2554 on a 1.6- amazing turbo response with declining power at higher gears (unknown A/R)
2. FM manifold with 2560 built 1.6 - amazing turbo response more midrange power declining power in higher gears (unknown A/R)
3. Begi t3 cast manifold external wastegate built - 1.6 - T3/T04 turbo .48 turbine housing slow spool
4. Begi t3 cast manifold external wastegate - 1.8 - T3/T04 turbo .48 housing - amazing power best combo for ultimate power
5. Long tube header manifold built 1.8 - Garrett non ball bearing turbo T4 .58 turbine housing. Slow as ****

6. Presently sold the turbo to a local buddy and looking to upgrade for a turbo that gives more midrange power. Upgrading from a T25 ball bearing turbo on a short cast manifold allowed to understand how much fun are these T25 turbos. The present goal is to go down in turbo size to get have more fun driving the car. Need to know what is the best A/R size for a street car.

I see Tial has 3 different turbine sizes for T28 turbos. they are .52, .64 and 82. The TiAL .52 housing looks interesting but I am concerned it will create a lot of backpressure. I think I should go for a .64 housing although the T3 with .48 housing is ******* awesome combo for the 1.8 powerplant. Last upgrading the exhaust manifold from cast to tubular gave me slower spool but that's because I was running low boost on a big turbo. The car has a Hydra now, so I plan to raise the boost.
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:06 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

So are you looking for a turbo recommendation? Or an A/R recommendation? What are your goals?
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #10
Elite Member
 
Chiburbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 2,159
Total Cats: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthNB View Post
to answer some of these questions let me say the following. I owned several turbo kits

1. FM manifold with 2554 on a 1.6- amazing turbo response with declining power at higher gears (.64 turbine A/R)
2. FM manifold with 2560 built 1.6 - amazing turbo response more midrange power declining power in higher gears (.64 turbine A/R)
.
Here is some of your info. Turbine A/R is only part of the story.
Chiburbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:27 PM   #11
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
So are you looking for a turbo recommendation? Or an A/R recommendation? What are your goals?
First question I am already set for a 2863GTX or GTX2867 turbo, second question I would like to see what A/R turbine size is best recommended for a long tube header manifold on a street car. My goal is achieve more midrange power with this set up I have now.


Thank you man!
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:34 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,468
Total Cats: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthNB View Post
First question I am already set for a 2863GTX or GTX2867 turbo, second question I would like to see what A/R turbine size is best recommended for a long tube header manifold on a street car. My goal is achieve more midrange power with this set up I have now.


Thank you man!
Use the smaller one.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 06:57 PM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,298
Total Cats: 22
Default

.64 A/R is sufficient for most cases until you bump up the boost or have a high redline, if you push 16+psi you'll want to start looking to step up your A/R size so you can flow more exhaust. Note you'll lose spool performance with a bigger A/R, I recall reading tubular headers breathe better up top but log headers spool faster, so you might suffer double the loss of spool performance.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 03:56 PM   #14
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

The decision was made. I am going with a .64 A/R TiAL housing. While I have great results with a T3 .48 A/R and the TiAL .52 will probably give the car tons of midrange power, the .64 is possible the best choice for this car. Thanks everybody.
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 07:06 PM   #15
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,696
Total Cats: 1,563
Default

I have a GTX2867 and .86 and don't see 10 pounds until the top side of 4000, I don't think. I'm usually watching the road.

I guess I could datalog but I don't have a Sharpie handy.
sixshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 07:34 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

It also depends on your power goals and spool-goals. I ran a .86 hotside on a GT3271, which is a T3 journal bearing turbo and it was around 4,500 before it would hit 28 PSI. Kind of laggy but had a good top end power for what it was. That particular turbo was compressor-limited though at higher boost pressures.

I think a .64 will be fine for your setup as long as you are not running 20+ PSI on it. If you're going to max the compressor out a larger a/r turbine will drop your turbine pressure which helps reduce detonation.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 08:55 PM   #17
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,878
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthNB View Post
The decision was made. I am going with a .64 A/R TiAL housing. While I have great results with a T3 .48 A/R and the TiAL .52 will probably give the car tons of midrange power, the .64 is possible the best choice for this car. Thanks everybody.
I have a .72 on my 2863, but that's because it's the only A/R available with the v-band EWG port. If I could have gone .64 I would have.

Mine makes 200 kpa at 3650.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 11:23 AM   #18
I'm Miserable!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 130
Total Cats: -162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
I have a .72 on my 2863, but that's because it's the only A/R available with the v-band EWG port. If I could have gone .64 I would have.

Mine makes 200 kpa at 3650.

--Ian
Seriously this is not bad. If you go down in A/R size the spool should increase considerably starting from about 3000rpms. Quick question, I couldn't find pictures of your turbo set up. Do you have a long tube header manifold?
StealthNB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 01:10 PM   #19
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,878
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthNB View Post
Seriously this is not bad. If you go down in A/R size the spool should increase considerably starting from about 3000rpms. Quick question, I couldn't find pictures of your turbo set up. Do you have a long tube header manifold?
No, it's an FM cast manifold.

Build thread here: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...rebuild-81161/

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 01:24 PM   #20
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: PHX, Arizona
Posts: 227
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I guess I could datalog but I don't have a Sharpie handy.
I love this.
humming is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
01-05 Fab9 PNP COPs (used) FrankB Miata parts for sale/trade 6 09-30-2015 12:48 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
wiring wideband ground to battery terminal btabor ECUs and Tuning 10 09-28-2015 06:33 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:47 PM.