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Hey all, long time lurker first time poster.
I've got my stock block 1999 nb1 BP4W, with a TD04 13t, ms2, LS DB585 coils, and rx yellow top injectors currently running and properly tuned to 220whp 200ftlb on 91 octane by church tuning in SoCal.
I am not an experienced builder by any means and would like to get some input on my choice of parts for my forged bottom end rebuild. My end goal is around 300hp on pump gas with a separate map and toggle for e85 and 350hp as its easily accessible where the car is located.
I plan on keeping my current intercooler and mishi rad setup but everything else I plan on upgrading.
I was planning on keeping the stock 9:5:1 ratio. But any and all advice is appreciated. Is there anything I've missed or overlooked?
My current parts list is as follows:
• ARP head stud kit
• ARP Main Stud Kit
• Competition Clutch Stage 4 Clutch Kit
• Deatschwerks DW300 In-Tank Fuel Pump
• Gates Accessory Micro-V Drive Serpentine Belts
• Gates Water Pump + Racing Timing Comp
• King Tri-Metal ROD Bearings & main bearings
• Manley Forged H-Beam Rods
• Racing Thermostat - 180 Degree
• Supertech Forged Pistons NA/NB 1.8L (Bore/Compression: 94-05 - 84mm/9.5:1. Now 84mm 8.8:1
• Supertech Valve Seal Set Now 949 racing supermiata valve seals
• Cometic MLS head gasket
• GM flex fuel sensor
• Radium high flow fuel rail
• Radium rail hardware kit
• Cobalt coolant reroute
• Oil pan seal set
• Rear main seal
• Camshaft seal
• Crank seal
• Fuel filter
• Magnetic oil plug
• Plug gasket
• Pcv valve gasket
• Intake Manifold gasket
• CXRacing T28 turbo manifold
• CXRacing Gt3071 ceramic/billet turbo
• Boundary engineering oil pump
• Fuelab 515 fuel pressure reg kit not needed with ms2
--HKS SSQV 2 blow off valve
Edit:
Piston Compression has now been changed to 8.8:1 on supertech forged pistons
Last edited by nissonoodles; 12-19-2020 at 02:33 PM.
Personally I'd drop compression with the 8.6 pistons.
I'd ditch the main studs. Not needed and sometimes have to have the main journals align honed to install.
I would not use CX racing stuff. MKTurbo if you want to stay budget friendly.
Kraken/EFR if you're not. The engine you are building would not be considered budget friendly.
Read the multiple threads regarding valve stem seals. This is important...
No valve spring upgrade listed. I'd at least go with the Volvo springs and for a build of your magnitude I'd go with the normal upgrade Supertech stuff.
You need to verify you can run 2 fuel tables with the MS2 for E85. I don't think you can but might be wrong.
Might be better to sell it and upgrade to a MS3X. The flex fuel sensor is not needed if you are going to toggle the fuel. Don't do it this way, upgrade to MS3 and the flex sensor will do that stuff automatically.
You will need better bigger injectors, talk to Nigel at flow force or go IDs If you're really planning for E85 you need BIG ones (1000 cc).
Normal Mazda MLS head gasket will work fine. Don't waste money on the Cometic unless you overbore it big time.
Make sure to have both the head surfaced and the block decked. MLS gaskets work best on freshly machined surfaces at a specific RMS finish. A good machine shop should know this.
Suggest 1st possible oversize on pistons. Big pistons make for thin cylinder walls, bad way to hunt power.
The Mishi rad might work for SHORT bursts but at the 350hp level you will need more cooling. You will need Supermiata x-flow and airflow mods.
Your intercooler might work as well but you will need to test it properly after the HP upgrade.
Big assed exhaust. 3" all the way and the big magna-flow muffler.
Check which rings to use. It is common to use Supertech pistons with Wiseco rings. The Supertech rings are lower tension (good for power/bad for oil consumption). Read some threads about this (I may have it backwards, it's late and I am tired)
Have a nice weekend...
DO NOT run Supertech viton valve seals, use OEM. Youll thank me later
Build list looks good. I dont like the CX racing turbo choice but im sure itll hit your goals, but with a lot of lag 4500-5000 full boost.
Edit :
Do yourself a favor and dont run the CX racing manifold and turbo. Get a used FM/BEGI or Kraken manifold with a GTX2860, youll spool up WAY sooner and it will easily hit 350whp. Do it right man.
Personally I'd drop compression with the 8.6 pistons.
I'd ditch the main studs. Not needed and sometimes have to have the main journals align honed to install.
I would not use CX racing stuff. MKTurbo if you want to stay budget friendly.
Kraken/EFR if you're not. The engine you are building would not be considered budget friendly.
Read the multiple threads regarding valve stem seals. This is important...
No valve spring upgrade listed. I'd at least go with the Volvo springs and for a build of your magnitude I'd go with the normal upgrade Supertech stuff.
You need to verify you can run 2 fuel tables with the MS2 for E85. I don't think you can but might be wrong.
Might be better to sell it and upgrade to a MS3X. The flex fuel sensor is not needed if you are going to toggle the fuel. Don't do it this way, upgrade to MS3 and the flex sensor will do that stuff automatically.
You will need better bigger injectors, talk to Nigel at flow force or go IDs If you're really planning for E85 you need BIG ones (1000 cc).
Normal Mazda MLS head gasket will work fine. Don't waste money on the Cometic unless you overbore it big time.
Make sure to have both the head surfaced and the block decked. MLS gaskets work best on freshly machined surfaces at a specific RMS finish. A good machine shop should know this.
Suggest 1st possible oversize on pistons. Big pistons make for thin cylinder walls, bad way to hunt power.
The Mishi rad might work for SHORT bursts but at the 350hp level you will need more cooling. You will need Supermiata x-flow and airflow mods.
Your intercooler might work as well but you will need to test it properly after the HP upgrade.
Big assed exhaust. 3" all the way and the big magna-flow muffler.
Check which rings to use. It is common to use Supertech pistons with Wiseco rings. The Supertech rings are lower tension (good for power/bad for oil consumption). Read some threads about this (I may have it backwards, it's late and I am tired)
Have a nice weekend...
Okay gotcha, this definitely isn't a budget build its more of a jumping off point for the end goal of 500hp. So I should swap the Pistons for a lower compression so I can run more boost, upgrade my cooling setup, and look more into valve springs. I do know the ms2 I have can run table switching and e85 and the mkturbo kit won't push out the numbers im looking for. I was originally considering them as their prices are excellent. As for exhaust 3" is what I was planning on as well. Really good idea with the magnaflow, I don't need to worry about emissions as this isn't a street car but I am trying to keep it as quiet as possible. Im also fortunate enough to be in a position where I already have 960cc injectors from Nigel on their way. Are these too small?
Okay gotcha, this definitely isn't a budget build its more of a jumping off point for the end goal of 500hp. So I should swap the Pistons for a lower compression so I can run more boost, upgrade my cooling setup, and look more into valve springs. I do know the ms2 I have can run table switching and e85 and the mkturbo kit won't push out the numbers im looking for. I was originally considering them as their prices are excellent. As for exhaust 3" is what I was planning on as well. Really good idea with the magnaflow, I don't need to worry about emissions as this isn't a street car but I am trying to keep it as quiet as possible. Im also fortunate enough to be in a position where I already have 960cc injectors from Nigel on their way. Are these too small?
960's with higher base pressure on e85 might be good for 450whp. 500 would need bigger most likely. For valve springs I ran Supertech Heavy Dual's. They are 72lb, the volvo springs people use are decent as well but I went with the duals since I think they will wear slower and keep seat pressure better.
Okay gotcha, this definitely isn't a budget build its more of a jumping off point for the end goal of 500hp. So I should swap the Pistons for a lower compression so I can run more boost, upgrade my cooling setup, and look more into valve springs. I do know the ms2 I have can run table switching and e85 and the mkturbo kit won't push out the numbers im looking for. I was originally considering them as their prices are excellent. As for exhaust 3" is what I was planning on as well. Really good idea with the magnaflow, I don't need to worry about emissions as this isn't a street car but I am trying to keep it as quiet as possible. Im also fortunate enough to be in a position where I already have 960cc injectors from Nigel on their way. Are these too small?
Actually I do offer a setup that can hit the power levels you want. As far as I am aware I am the only turbo kit maker for the NA/NB platform that is building G25-550 orG25- 650 turbo setups. I just tend to target the budget market so I don't advertise heavily bigger HP options, but I can make it happen.
960s are in all respects 1000cc injectors.
They will work PERFECTLY!
Nigel (whom I don't know and haven't ever ordered from) appears to be a stand up guy and is a serious hitter on this forum.
Choosing him for your stuff is an EXCELLENT choice.
MKTurbo's Shuiend is a bad *** too (this means GOOD) and his "budget" kit can definitely hit your power goals.
His kits come with a FULL exhaust and is the "easiest" button out there.
Check out "Son of the hills" super long thread to see just what the baby kit will do.
I'll give you a hint, he's running sub 12 second quarter miles in what appears to be a street car...
You should patronize forum vendors when ever you can....
Shuiend also has higher end stuff as the his last post reflects.
He has made mention of a "cast" manifold he is working on...
Hurry up and finish that puppy, I want to see it and maybe purchase it.
I would drop your goal of 500HP, it's a pipe dream.
By the time you get there you will be running a non-Mazda drivetrain including BMW transmission, GM rear end, custom drive shaft, adaptors, half shafts etc...
Too much money to stay with the BP engine. Better/cheaper to start a 500 hp build using a different drive train from the get go.
Choices are GM V8 or V6, Honda K series, look to the WILD threads for suggestions.
There may be other good drivetrain choices here. Skys the limit. At one point someone was going to put a Ferrari engine in a Miata...
A Miata with more than 300 hp to the wheels is a handful to drive. It's just too short and too light for the street.
More terrifying than fun. Nobody but you will be able to drive it. It cannot go out in the rain (unless you add a bunch of safety measures like "traction control")
Look to the TSE built street car Academus (sp??). Even the builder Savinton said it was "daunting" to drive, too much for a street car. 430hp
This guy had tons of experience with high HP Miatas on the track...
If you stay below 300lbs/ft of torque the Mazda 6 speed can live, the Mazda rear end can work (LSD only) and you can keep the cost down...
Actually I do offer a setup that can hit the power levels you want. As far as I am aware I am the only turbo kit maker for the NA/NB platform that is building G25-550 orG25- 650 turbo setups. I just tend to target the budget market so I don't advertise heavily bigger HP options, but I can make it happen.
Your stuff is fantastic it seems. If I wasn't already being sent a CXracing setup I would have gone with you. If it doesn't work out you'll certainly be getting an email from me. This build isn't necessarily about being budget friendly, more a proof of concept. For a similar setup with a gt3071r, manifold and downpipe what do you normally charge? I love to support forum sponsors.
960s are in all respects 1000cc injectors.
They will work PERFECTLY!
Nigel (whom I don't know and haven't ever ordered from) appears to be a stand up guy and is a serious hitter on this forum.
Choosing him for your stuff is an EXCELLENT choice.
MKTurbo's Shuiend is a bad *** too (this means GOOD) and his "budget" kit can definitely hit your power goals.
His kits come with a FULL exhaust and is the "easiest" button out there.
Check out "Son of the hills" super long thread to see just what the baby kit will do.
I'll give you a hint, he's running sub 12 second quarter miles in what appears to be a street car...
You should patronize forum vendors when ever you can....
Shuiend also has higher end stuff as the his last post reflects.
He has made mention of a "cast" manifold he is working on...
Hurry up and finish that puppy, I want to see it and maybe purchase it.
I would drop your goal of 500HP, it's a pipe dream.
By the time you get there you will be running a non-Mazda drivetrain including BMW transmission, GM rear end, custom drive shaft, adaptors, half shafts etc...
Too much money to stay with the BP engine. Better/cheaper to start a 500 hp build using a different drive train from the get go.
Choices are GM V8 or V6, Honda K series, look to the WILD threads for suggestions.
There may be other good drivetrain choices here. Skys the limit. At one point someone was going to put a Ferrari engine in a Miata...
A Miata with more than 300 hp to the wheels is a handful to drive. It's just too short and too light for the street.
More terrifying than fun. Nobody but you will be able to drive it. It cannot go out in the rain (unless you add a bunch of safety measures like "traction control")
Look to the TSE built street car Academus (sp??). Even the builder Savinton said it was "daunting" to drive, too much for a street car. 430hp
This guy had tons of experience with high HP Miatas on the track...
If you stay below 300lbs/ft of torque the Mazda 6 speed can live, the Mazda rear end can work (LSD only) and you can keep the cost down...
Yes, Nigel has been supporting me in my build since before I even owned the car. I refuse to use any injectors or coil solutions other than what he offers because of how good him and his team have been to me.
Speaking of my 500hp goal. That involves a generic LS swap, I plan on pushing the forged setup until it no longer makes sense. For and all the other cars I've owned, I would like to keep the BP4W in the car for as long as possible.
As to the idea of swapping the rear end, I plan on swapping in a GM Cadillac diff, but currently have a 4.10 torsen. I don't launch this car. Ever as its not a drag car, but am currently looking for a rx7 diff carrier for now.
You're absolutely right about a miata with over 300rwhp being unnecessary, and I do plan on sorting this out by having multiple maps, but fortunately the ms2 I have supports map toggle.
But in all seriousness it would take an emergency for me to take this car out in the rain already as is. For how light the car is, with 200lbft in the rear I feel lucky to have the choice to not drive it in the winter. I will absolutely check those threads you mentioned. Thank you.
DO NOT run Supertech viton valve seals, use OEM. Youll thank me later
Build list looks good. I dont like the CX racing turbo choice but im sure itll hit your goals, but with a lot of lag 4500-5000 full boost.
Edit :
Do yourself a favor and dont run the CX racing manifold and turbo. Get a used FM/BEGI or Kraken manifold with a GTX2860, youll spool up WAY sooner and it will easily hit 350whp. Do it right man.
Will do. I'll make sure I get OEM Seals, and im considering a different turbo. I went with CXracing's manifold only because they've been good to me in the past, and I'll admit they have everyone else beat on aesthetics. Theres just something about tubular manifolds I can't put my finger on. I will likely borrow a friend's 2860 to see how I feel about the difference between the two, but you certainly make a good case. Cams and valve upgrades will eventually come into play so full boost at 5k isn't the end of the world for me.
By the way I really appreciate the advice about the Seals. On further research oem the best way to go, I'll be updating my list asap.
960's with higher base pressure on e85 might be good for 450whp. 500 would need bigger most likely. For valve springs I ran Supertech Heavy Dual's. They are 72lb, the volvo springs people use are decent as well but I went with the duals since I think they will wear slower and keep seat pressure better.
I've been eyeing the supertech dual heavies as well! did you upgrade your valves as well? I saw that Supertech sells extended valves and was wondering if they would be worth it for my application.
I've been eyeing the supertech dual heavies as well! did you upgrade your valves as well? I saw that Supertech sells extended valves and was wondering if they would be worth it for my application.
I had planned on doing +1 valves but coronavirus made it hard to find valves. Supertech valves have some issues, if you do upgrade valves Manley would be a good choice. However I just went with stock valves with a 3 angle and backcut. I made 373whp on a bone stock head so +1 isnt really necessary unless you want 450whp+ out of the BP4W
I had planned on doing +1 valves but coronavirus made it hard to find valves. Supertech valves have some issues, if you do upgrade valves Manley would be a good choice. However I just went with stock valves with a 3 angle and backcut. I made 373whp on a bone stock head so +1 isnt really necessary unless you want 450whp+ out of the BP4W
I just went through your build thread and noticed we have some similar ideas. I'll go ahead and request the machine shop does the same to my valves when I drop everything off. And ill be ordering OEM valve seals.
I was wondering through, if you had to do it again, what would you make sure you did before you started building everything?
I just went through your build thread and noticed we have some similar ideas. I'll go ahead and request the machine shop does the same to my valves when I drop everything off. And ill be ordering OEM valve seals.
I was wondering through, if you had to do it again, what would you make sure you did before you started building everything?
I would make sure I had the head skimmed lol. That is about the only issue I've had with the car. But this built head going on soon will fix that. I need to update my build thread
I would make sure I had the head skimmed lol. That is about the only issue I've had with the car. But this built head going on soon will fix that. I need to update my build thread
Awesome, thank you for the advice. One last question since everyone has different opinions. Do you think its a bad idea for me to keep my 9:5:1 compression? I persinally enjoy the way the engine feels but if it means limiting power im willing to compromise.
Awesome, thank you for the advice. One last question since everyone has different opinions. Do you think its a bad idea for me to keep my 9:5:1 compression? I persinally enjoy the way the engine feels but if it means limiting power im willing to compromise.
I run 8.5:1 and off boost my car feels great TBH. And my turbo can make boost so early in the rpm that it honestly never feels lifeless. I would do lower cr so you can run more ign timing personally. On the dyno I made 342whp @22psi, then upped the timing 2* and made 373whp. That's how much the BP wanted the timing.
I run 8.5:1 and off boost my car feels great TBH. And my turbo can make boost so early in the rpm that it honestly never feels lifeless. I would do lower cr so you can run more ign timing personally. On the dyno I made 342whp @22psi, then upped the timing 2* and made 373whp. That's how much the BP wanted the timing.
Man I owe you one. I called up fab9 and ordered a set of 8.8:1 pistons. They didn't offer 8.5:1 but it should be okay with the "big" gt3071 thats being put on the engine.
Great video btw, subscribed!
Man I owe you one. I called up fab9 and ordered a set of 8.8:1 pistons. They didn't offer 8.5:1 but it should be okay with the "big" gt3071 thats being put on the engine.
Great video btw, subscribed!
8.8:1 will be fine as well. The BP engines want timing. Good deal brother thanks for the sub!
12-12-2020, 07:55 PM
Redoing my turbo setup
0
did you upgrade your valves as well? I saw that Supertech sells extended valves and was wondering if they would be worth it for my application.
