Remote oil system? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-23-2011, 01:00 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default Remote oil system?

So, a thought that's occurred to me more than once.

1) How come I don't see anyone running a dedicated oiling system for their turbo?

2) Is it simply a matter of the current system being adequate?

3) What makes the bearings go south on these things?

4) Would the ability to run a thinner, higher quality oil help with the longevity?

A tank, pump and oil cooler would be a piece of cake. I'm guessing on the racers it's also a matter of weight savings being a possible hindrance.

---Cobra
Cobrachaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:30 AM   #2
Reverse Cerberus
iTrader: (10)
 
mrryanbaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 131
Total Cats: 5
Default

You hit the nail on the head with #2 there. There's nothing wrong with the standard way of doing it, and it works just fine.
mrryanbaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 04:32 AM   #3
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,359
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

You wouldn't set up a separate oiling system for a turbocharger for the same reasons you wouldn't install a septic system for the upstairs toilet in a house that's already connected to a fully functioning sewer system.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

I was under the impression that the turbos run tighter tolerances, than say, a main bearing. Spinning considerably higher rpm, I would think a higher quality oil (septic system) would benefit that individual system.

I take it the previous answer is the long way of saying, "...the current system has proven adequate in a number of different applications."

I suppose if it were enough of a benefit you'd see it in 24hr endurance racing events.

---Cobra
Cobrachaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:33 PM   #5
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,359
Total Cats: 1,323
Default



The loads on a turbo bearing are totally different than what a main or rod bearing sees. At the end of the day, there just needs to be oil in there and it will work fine.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 10:17 PM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Duly noted. Thank you.
Cobrachaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 11:07 PM   #7
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

I suppose one could make the argument that there might be some theoretical benefit to providing the turbo with its own oiling system separate from the engine. Apart from being able to run separate grades of oil in the two, my guess is that your principle concern here involves the cleanliness of the oil, and I'm certain you're right in that oil reserved specifically for the turbo would remain much cleaner in the absence of combustion blowby, fine metallic particles shed by the various bearing surfaces, etc. Whether this would have any practical benefit to the turbo is questionable; neither journal-bearing turbos nor ball-bearing turbos are nearly as close-tolerance devices as you might imagine.


In the end, I doubt that the added cost and complexity of such a configuration would be justified. In matters such as these, I tend to use a very simple analysis: Are those at the top echelons of motorsport doing it? Are high-end OEMs doing it?

If any given technology isn't in use by Mercedes or Porsche, nor banned in F1, then it's probably not quite as awesome as you might have thought.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2011, 02:24 AM   #8
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,877
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If any given technology isn't in use by Mercedes or Porsche, nor banned in F1, then it's probably not quite as awesome as you might have thought.
Well, to be fair, a turbo oil system effectively *is* banned in F1, because the turbo that it would lubricate is banned, at least until 2014.

I suspect the biggest reason you wouldn't see one on an all-out race car is that it's not worth the added weight.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 06:53 PM   #9
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 16
Total Cats: -2
Default

plus it would be just one more thing that could go wrong and mess everything up
CarWhore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:36 PM   #10
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Well, to be fair, a turbo oil system effectively *is* banned in F1, because the turbo that it would lubricate is banned, at least until 2014.
Ok, wise guy. You know what I mean.

Quote:
I suspect the biggest reason you wouldn't see one on an all-out race car is that it's not worth the added weight.
In some series, perhaps. But consider endurance-style races (Le Mans, Lemons, Daytona) and particularly those which involve an off-road element (Dakar, Baja, WRC). If those guys were suffering turbo bearing failures, and an extra 15 lbs of weight would cure this, I'm pretty sure they'd all be running external lube systems.

For a street car, of course, I still hold up companies like Mercedes and Porsche as the final arbiters. These are the companies which stake their reputation on building high-HP, high-reliability powertrains for everyday use.


Do we have any diesel mechanics among us? Truck owners hang all sorts of fancy oil-purification devices on their rigs in order to extend their oil-change intervals. At 12 gallons a pop and 150,000 miles or more a year, the OTR guys have good reason to run their oil as long as possible, and weight is certainly no concern there. Do any of these rigs use self-contained lubrication systems for the turbocharger, or do they consider oil that's got 20,000 miles worth of diesel blow-by in it to be perfectly adequate for a turbocharger that spend more time on boost in a week then any of our engines spend running in a month?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Moroso Air Oil Separator Catch Can Aroundcorner Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 04:20 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.