Reputable Chinese Turbo Sellers (oxymoron? lol)
 

Im in the process of designing my DIY turbo kit for my 2000 LS. After some research and some conversations with members on /r/miata I am considering trying a Chinese turbo to cut costs. I see a lot of mixed reviews and know that there are risks when going this rout. I am fully willing to accept these risks, if for nothing else but an interesting experiment.

Does anyone have recommendations for reputable sellers of these turbos? I am wanting to go with one of the SR20DET bolt on replacements (or equivalent) so if I do end up regretting going this rout, I can just swap out for a GT2560r. I have looked at Enjuku Racing with the ISR turbo (6 month warranty), CX Racing (no warranty), and GodSpeed (1 year warranty with professional installation).

Thanks in advance!

o dis gun be good :laugh:
:bowrofl:

Go MKTurbo if you're on a budget. Only sells entire kits though.

He is actually one of the people that got me headed down the Chinese turbo path on /r/miata. He seems to have good kits and I respect his knowledge, but I want to take a build path that has a lot of parts interchangeability.

I would just get a second hand T25 turbo in that case. Don't think those would be more expensive than a new Chinacharger.

Asking this question is kinda like going into a casino and asking: WHICH MACHINE IS GUARRANTEED WIN?

I do just this quite often. It hasn't worked yet, but if it does, which one of us will be the rich one? Im not afraid of asking stupid questions, Im afraid of getting stupid answers.

I'll look into the used T25 as im open to other options, Im just specifically curious about the Chinese turbos at the moment. Right now my price to beat is $350 for the ISR which seems like my best bet for chinachargers at the moment.

Why not just save up for what you want instead of play LEGO with parts :burncash:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...342/ihave.jpg?

LEGOS are fun! I like building stuff and learning, plus the cost savings. I mean, I did throw this in the DIY turbo section. :-P

If there is any place on Earth where one should be deathly afraid of asking stupid questions, it's here

Efr 6258 turbos, your choice of wastegate... 1254.64 with free shipping.

Call 4358678800 ask for gavin. Say its for the turbo miata special!


Or dont. But now you know.

If you want to buy a piece of shit as cheap as possible, might as well just get it from aliexpress. But don't blame me when this one (or another chinacharger) blows up and takes the engine with it :-)

Im not trying to go as cheap as possible. I just haven't been seeing used T25s that are at a similar price point to the Chinese turbos.

Thanks, but at most im getting a GT2560r which I have been finding for < $900.

Seems like I should be afraid of asking questions in general since no one has actually addressed my question.

Plenty of T25 and T28 turbos pop up for sale on Zilvia.net, just keep checking it every day.

in the past week or so, TWO s14 gt2560r turbos sold for $350.

there is one for sale right now out of an s15 with the special gamma whatever something, for $550 OBO, so you might be able to negotiate it down somewhat.

The answer is: Chinese turbo's are a lottery. There is no guarantees because there is insufficient supply chain integrity and/or strong QA in turbo's from China, so you never know what you're gonna get.

I'm afraid of coutless stupid threads where n00bs circle jerk about janky parts and determine the "proven knockoff chinese parts" which in itself is an oxymoron.
I actually didn't think this thread was stupid until you mentioned buying a garrett from the 80's for a whopping 300 in savings.

This is one of the VERY LAST sites on the planet that refuses to blow smoke up your butt and make you feel good about bad decisions :)

We hate because we love :likecat:

Sure, try one. They all come from the same place. In terms of QUALITY, i don't think there's a difference between the $79.99 special and the $350 one ISR or whomever sells. ISR just probably sells enough that they get the same specs every time. At least within shitty turbo tolerances.

My ONE suggestion is that IF you try one of these, make SURE it shares dimensions/patterns with a legit Garrett T25, so that when you get sick of this experiment, you don't have to re-design your high school science project to play with the adults. :)

Which is hard to do, with posted measurements/specs on most of them being either completely or partially wrong, or a copy/paste from a different part altogether lol

"this intercooler is comparable to a gt28"

I bought a turbo from eBay seller dptmotorsport and they successfully shipped/delivered. It was as-advertised. Nearly 85k feedback at 99.7% positive. That's about as reputable as eBay gets.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/dptmotorspo...72.m2749.l2754

Specifics and Features:

• Boost engine horse power significantly
• Increase engine power and torque outpout
• Maintain combustion chamber pressure and fuel/air load
• Contructed with high quality material
• Built for durability and strength
• Dual ball bearing mechanism

This is how the Chinese describe their turbo, I personally enjoy the turbos ability to maintain combustion chamber pressure and air/fuel load.

I appreciate your hate lol. So if the GT2560r is so outdated why is it FM's go to in their kits? At this point I assume that I am incorrect, but I thought the older GT2560r's were journal bearing and the new ones were ball bearing, making them a smidge better.

This is a great thread to mention the fact that Chinese turbos routinely underperform their legitimate counterparts by several hundred RPM in spool and mid-range power. You get what you pay for. I would never, ever use one, even if I were on a budget. Find a used journal bearing T25 or an SR20 GT2560R. Same cost, better quality, better performance.

Use garbage if you wish, but don't delude yourself into thinking it is "the same".

I have my bases covered as far as swapability goes. My thoughts about the ISR are the same. I was just hoping I could find someone who could confirm it.

Why the assumption that there aren't better products than FM's offerings?

GT2560R is a ball bearing turbo.

It's outdated, which is why it's FM's go to. Everything they sell was designed around that turbo a few millenia ago. They use it because it's cheap, easy, and pairs well with these trash motors.

Nothing wrong with the GT2560R its a good turbo. Its not the newest tech but it still performs well. If its not BB its not a GT2560R, it would just be called a T28 at that point. The 2560R specifically is the ball bearing variant of the T28

I know there are better performing kits, but if I buy a kit it's going to be from FM for product development, and customer service. Their kits seem tried and true and there is TONS of documentation for a noob like me. I know a newer Borge Warner setup would be far superior, but lets face it, im going to run a stock motor and hopefully make 220-250whp at the end of the day. Why spend more money than I have to?

2560r is a great turbo for a miata, yes its a 30 year old design, but its sized correctly and works great on a miata. its sweet spot is around 250hp. with great spool and response.
I ran the 2560r for almost 2 years, spool was quick and made good power. no complaints.

I recently sold this setup and went with an EFR6258 setup, as i wanted a bit more power, and a bit better response. but really no complaints about a gt2560r.

The 2560r originated in the Japanese 240sx s14 and s15 cars. the s14 variant is i believe single ball bearing and s15 is dual ball bearing.
The turbo i had was the s14 variant and ran great. zero complaints about spool or power.

if buying used, i would get a used s14 or s15 2560r over a junk journal bearing china crap.
If buying new, i would never spend $900 on a 30 year old turbo, epsecially when the latest and greatest efr is only a few hundred more.

Thanks for your great insight. At the risk of derailing my own thread even more, what do you recommend as far as manifold and down pipe setups for the EFR considering, I would like to run a stock compatible exhaust and cost is definitely an issue.

Why use an EFR turbo and then bottle it up by using the smallest possible exhaust (stock)?

The only EFR manifold/downpipe kits that will bolt up to your exhaust are the Trackspeed or Fab9, both are around $3k.

I personally went with Kraken, great quality manifold and downpipe, only issue is his EFR 3" downpipe is open ended, so you need to have an exhaust shop weld a flange and mate it up to the rest of your exhaust.

If you want to go with a T25 2560r setup, i strongly recommend Kraken manifold/downpipe/oil/water lines combo, its affordable, great quality and will bolt up to your normal exhaust. and you can upgrade it to an EFR later down the road by getting a new EFR downpipe from Kraken, the manifold is the same..

Im not running stock. I have a 2.5" that bolts up to stock flanges. I just don't want to have to fabricate a downpipe to use my current exhaust.

Using an EFR, I guess TSE has a downpipe + manifold (you'll need to use them both). You can check with them. Kraken has a T2 flange manifold and is building an EFR downpipe but not sure if it puts the downpipe outlet exactly as stock.

EDIT: Borka pretty much said it.

Just an fyi on Kraken... Michael offers full exhausts for all his kits (t3, t25, td04, efr) in 2.5, 2.75, or 3.0," all v-bands, your choice of resonators, magnaflow or other muffler, and straight pipe deletes for any section.

Not everyone needs a Bourgeois Weiner to have a good time. Sometimes a regular Johnson gets the job done just fine.

Not every one needs a EFR turbo is very correct, so;
My recommended solid and budget setup is:

Kraken manifold/downpipe and oil/water lines: ~$800
Used Garrett s14 t28 (2560r) turbo ~$300-400
Megasquirt 2 or 3: $550-1000
FlowForce 640cc injectors: $300
Ebay intercooler, pipes and BOV: $200

so about $2.5-3K for a good and reliable setup.

Can a setup be hacked together with shitty parts for cheaper? yes, but it wont perform good, nor be reliable.

Why not pick up an MHI turbo? They're inexpensive new, or easy enough to find used and have rebuilt, or buy rebuilt.

No point in moar power if you can't use it. (i know you know this, figured might as well add it in)

This can be cut down some though with good patience and searching. You can get deals on the MS and turbos by watching the classifieds religiously.

I gave up trying to google what is a MHI turbo?, educate me

Mitsubishi heavy industries. Td04 13t from a WRX can be had for 100 bucks

Thanks, had no ideal what MHI stands for, i do know of TD04 turbos though. and read that 13t is quite comparable to a sr20 t25 and works rather well.

thats true, td04 is a choice as well. but to my knowledge Kraken is the only one who makes TD04 manifolds and downpipes for it.

T25 is a much more common platform though with a wide range of turbo choices.

I got an ebay mani for my TD04 :o

(think its the same price as kraken though $260)

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to be cryptic.

There are turbine housings to use MHI CHRAs with other manifolds, like T25, T3, or T4. Greddy's turbochargers are MHI CHRAs, for example.
Here's a vendor selling turbine housings for MHI turbos to T25 flanges: Kinugawa Turbo Turbine Housing TD04HL T25 Flange / 6cm Internal Gate

Well, hopping back on here this morning I have drawn some conclusions.

• Chinese turbos are a gamble and will always under perform. Maybe ISR's specs are more consistent, but there is no evidence to prove this.
• EFR is the the way to go if you have $$$. I say this because even though a new EFR is only $1,300, the compatible manifold and down pipe will really kick the cost up over that of the Garrett.
• GT2560r is still a good option, although old tech. Best bang for the buck is to source a used one from an s14 or an s15.
• MHI turbos are cheap, but would require more work

My plan currently is to go fourth with my garret type setup plans. I think I want to buy a GT2560r, hopefully used, as well as possibly an ISR turbo for the sake of curiosity. I would like to run both and publish my build log and results somewhere.

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

dont even bother with wasting money on an ISR turbo, just get the garrett and be done with it. Some folks have great luck with ISR and some dont.

Not true, Kraken EFR and T25 manifold/DP setups are identically priced. so only thing that sets apart the cost of a Garrett and EFR is the cost of the actual turbo.

doesn't kraken make a td04 setup? in which case the mhi route is a really tempting option
*edit: and also agreed with borka.

I think you should just take more time and do more research. you're jumping the gun and making conclusions here that aren't exactly on point

kraken does make a td04 setup as well, I think an mhi is the most affordable option that is solid.

best solid setups on a budget are:
kraken td04 and mhi turbo
used begi/fm mani/dp and t25 or t28 sr20 turbos.

that's I all I got for budget oriented folks, that want quality parts.

To whoever reads this thread in the future:

sit down and add up all the costs. Just make 2 lists, and include e-v-e-r-y-thing. what you'll conclude is that no matter which way you go, if you don't cut corners and ghetto rig it, you're into it for a LOT of money. You'll then realize that to get a much better setup, you're only about 25-50% away. If that's a deal breaker for you, proceed with "budget" setup. If you know the difference between expense and investment, you'll know that in the end you'll be out a very similar amount of money.

Make your own decisions from there :)
And with that, I'm out.

(PS: if at any point the thought "I only paid XXX for this car, I can't justify XXX on a turbo setup, the parts must never exceed the price of car" enters your mind, stop, and don't modify a miata at all. in fact, don't modify any car, ever. Just go buy a prius and move on. these cars are considered consumables, and these turbo setups are not, never forget that)

the td04 route actually makes a LOT of sense because subaru turbos are plentiful and upgrading down the road from a td04 to maybe an IHI STI turbo is easy and all the flanges still match, etc.

There's a cornucopia of parts available for MHIs as well, so playing with different housings and wheels isn't expensive or difficult. They're easy to rebuild and rebuild parts are easily available.

So what's the issue with churbos, exactly? I could see how you probably wouldn't want to boost one to 20+ psi, but do they blow up at even low-moderate boost, like 5-10psi?

The problem is that they are just randomly out of spec in unpredictable ways. They might blow up, spool slowly, blow hot air at high rpm or any combination of the above. The Chinese manufacturers are completely indifferent to quality or whether stuff even works. If your car blows up, you'll just get mad at some shell company that is three steps removed from the asshole who cut corners and made the product bad. The only way to avoid this is to not buy Chinese.

If I was doing my build today instead of 15 years ago, I'd probably just save up for a TSE kit, since the whole stainless equal length cast manifold really appeals to me and EFRs are head and shoulders above everything else in terms of spoolup and power. That being said, I'm way richer today than I was 15 years ago. If I was poor today and trying to build a turbo miata, I would probably not build the engine and for a turbo/mani, I'd probably just go for a log and a junkyard turbo and have someone local fab up an exhaust for me. More than enough for mid-low 200s at the wheel. People shit on logs for being inefficient and not very blingy, but they can make plenty of power and they are extremely reliable and compact.

Well said.

It's always interesting how a suspension/turbo build can cost more than the entire car! This hobby is definitely not cheap.

I agree with the TD04 13t/SR20 option. They are not fancy but they are reliable and get the job done. Also keep an eye out locally (craigslist) there are deals out there form the 240SX/WRX guys all the time. I was able to pickup a clean low mileage sr20 turbo for $100 locally from a Facebook ad.

Remember with the sr20 turbo (depending on how it's clocked) you will have to get a bit creative on how the wastegate actuator will be mounted. Not sure if the same is try with the TD04 13t turbos. Good luck with the build.

Read what savington wrote earlier in this thread.

They're 'fine' for a low budget option, but you shouldn't really delude yourself into thinking that they're the same thing as an actual garrett turbo or whatnot. The specs are often not as advertised, spool is slower, and dimensions are off relative to the 'real' version of the same turbo. That said, they work and if all you want is something that works, then have at it. Folks would consider a used/rebuilt SR20 turbo or such a more reliable offering. Plenty of folks have had good luck with Lars' MKTURBO kit which uses the churbos but he kinda went through all the work of vetting them.

If you have to go china go with a isr performance or cxracing. They are some what quality controlled. I personally got a cx turbo and replaced internals with garret products! 1k in and working great!

If you are looking for a good inexpensive turbo that you can build off of I would look at a GT2554R, it comes stock on the Mazdaspeed Protege and can be found quite cheap. Also since the turbine side is the same as the gt2560r and gt2860rs you could upgrade extremely easily later if you want more power. Or you could just spend the money on an EFR.