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Sanity Check - Time crunch for boost

 
Old 10-03-2018, 01:46 PM
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Default Sanity Check - Time crunch for boost

I have been attempting to get the parts together for this project to do it right and correctly. Due to living arrangements changing in roughly 7 months I have to either do this now or I wonít have the time for another 3 years (work full time, full time student.. again). I would appreciate any opinions, shamingís, praises whatever.

As of yesterday I started tearing down my spare VVT motor. I really wasnít sure as to if this was a good idea as itís a healthy motor except for all the oil leaks. Thought about swapping this into my DD and pulling that one to rebuild as I have slightly lower compression in number 2 cyl of my DD but Iíve decided against it.. idk Iím indecisive. I'm trying to get it to the machine shop by end of the week. I'm not past the point of just throwing all new seals on and though and just dropping it in. I don't want to vent the block with the EFR though. Opinions appreciated.

I was originally going to save until I could do ALLOFIT (BE pump, Supertech pistons, ATI dampener, all arp etc.) but the situation changed so here I am. I keep forgetting things so this an attempt to organize.

My goal for this is purely a daily street car with the occasional drag strip for funz until I move to an area that has autox which Iíd like to try out. I donít plan on ever surpassing the 300 mark and I know getting close to that will be tricky with the 10-1 compression without e85/water,meth. Appears most people who do the rods only builds use the lower compression stock pistons, I thought I had found one build with the 10-1 but havenít seen it again. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I donít want to tear the 99 motor apart just for the pistons as Iíd like to have a backup I can drop in, in case something goes kabloooom.

Plan is to get all the ďmajorĒ stuff out of the way while I have the tool and space to do it then. Run the low boost actuator at first. I can take care of things like Coils and fuel pump etc. after I move then turn it up and get it dialed in.



So the plan is this:

NB2 motor

Rockauto chromolly rings Ė the 0.03Ē over. *Appears they are out of stock. Need to find solution asap

Ebay rods

ACL Bearings std size -

EFR 6258 - Probablyover kill for my needs but I would like to eventually grow into it. I drank the koolaid an wont be satisfied with less. Its an amazing feat of engineering.

Mazda OEM 01-05 headgasket Ė Read about the reroute opinions till my eyes bled. For me I think this will suffice.

Feltpro Seals all around Ė Iíve had good luck with them... and I already have them all.

Cast EFR mani

Mazda Comp motor mounts

3" exhaustwornderness - I am going to attempt my own I usually fluxcore 1/8" an under at work an use the ol' tombstone for anything thicker.. is fluxcore feasible or shell out an get some gas to mig(lost my regulator last time I moved)?

22" magnaflow Ė cannot remember if the offset or centered fits the NB better need to look up



Things Iím not sure of:

Everything Iím doing, What my purpose in life is..

APR main studs Ė Do I need them? Do I need to buy a stretch gauge if I do? Do I need a line bore if I do?

ACL bearings Ė Should I do the main and rod? I was only going to do the rods if main looked ok

Changing tunes- Due to the different CR once I swap motors should I use the spark/fuel map that Iíve been working on for the NB1 motor, maybe take a smidge of timing off across the whole table, or should I just import the spark an fuel table from an NB2 base map and start from scratch



Things I already have:

Ms3x

FlowForce 640cc injectors

AEM x-series W/B Ė Purchased after stupid MTX-l plus burned up sensor. Didnít want it to happen again.

Clutch - swap clutch from my DD (ACT HD w/ 12lb flywheel)

Ebay 2Ē intercooler piping

Ebay 27x7 ďbar an plateĒ Ė Would have probably gone vibrant core. Bought before I decided to try and do it right. Will see how it holds up.



Things Iím currently working on:

- Adding a VVT input to the megasquirt figuring out the ideal setup for VICS an VVT

- Swapping the 4.1 torsen for the 3.9 so I donít hate the 6spd

- Adding a covered switch, hidden where it wonít get hit, for the wideband so I can turn it off while Iím tinkering with stuff with power on but engine not running. The fear of replacing another o2 sensor has entered my heart.


Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:53 PM
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So the plan is this:

NB2 motor

Rockauto chromolly rings – the 0.03” over. *Appears they are out of stock. Need to find solution asap
Do the wiseco ring

Ebay rods
Not sure the price difference but i got eagle rods for cheap
ACL Bearings std size -

EFR 6258 - Probablyover kill for my needs but I would like to eventually grow into it. I drank the koolaid an wont be satisfied with less. Its an amazing feat of engineering.
Good choice and leaves you room for headroom in the future

Mazda OEM 01-05 headgasket – Read about the reroute opinions till my eyes bled. For me I think this will suffice.

Feltpro Seals all around – I’ve had good luck with them... and I already have them all.
OEM seals only
Cast EFR mani

Mazda Comp motor mounts

3" exhaustwornderness - I am going to attempt my own I usually fluxcore 1/8" an under at work an use the ol' tombstone for anything thicker.. is fluxcore feasible or shell out an get some gas to mig(lost my regulator last time I moved)?

22" magnaflow – cannot remember if the offset or centered fits the NB better need to look up
12578


Things I’m not sure of:

Everything I’m doing, What my purpose in life is..

APR main studs – Do I need them? Do I need to buy a stretch gauge if I do? Do I need a line bore if I do?
Need no. Should you yes. If you do you will need to line bore.

ACL bearings – Should I do the main and rod? I was only going to do the rods if main looked ok
Yes while you are in there might as well

Changing tunes- Due to the different CR once I swap motors should I use the spark/fuel map that I’ve been working on for the NB1 motor, maybe take a smidge of timing off across the whole table, or should I just import the spark an fuel table from an NB2 base map and start from scratch
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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Injectors are too small for e85 but ok for pump gas.

Don't bother to build the engine without getting low comp forged pistons. We are detonation limited in these engines and you will be hamstrung with 10 to 1 and that's pointless with an EFR. Build it once, build it right. You will be able to run a lot more timing and timing is power in this case.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Injectors are too small for e85 but ok for pump gas.

Don't bother to build the engine without getting low comp forged pistons. We are detonation limited in these engines and you will be hamstrung with 10 to 1 and that's pointless with an EFR. Build it once, build it right. You will be able to run a lot more timing and timing is power in this case.
Alright so just reseal everything. Drop it in run low boost with the efr and be happy till I can build it up right?

Last edited by 2N0B0dy1; 10-03-2018 at 02:54 PM. Reason: reposted tooo quick
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:57 PM
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it should be illegal to remove/open up a BP and not install forged rods.

illegal

like...you get 20 to life for doing it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:58 PM
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If it was me i would run the motor you have in it now. Call trackspeed and order his hit. Then slowly accumulate parts for the spare motor so you can bulletproof the block. Or if you are set on swapping just get a gasket kit and throw in some arp head studs and run it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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All you need for 300 whp is rods. Get used 9:1 pistons off ebay if you're worried about compression. Add fresh bearings and seals and you're done.

The other route leads to a spiraling rabbit hole of "while I'm in here" that results in an engine that cost you more than the entire car.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:37 PM
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Just 12k for a motor is all..... Plus turbo and downpipe and manifold and drivetrain to support. 20-25k and your 2k car will be really fast and nice and be worth 8k. so in the end you raise the value of the car 6-8k and seems like a win to me haha
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by matrussell122 View Post
Just 12k for a motor is all..... Plus turbo and downpipe and manifold and drivetrain to support. 20-25k and your 2k car will be really fast and nice and be worth 8k. so in the end you raise the value of the car 6-8k and seems like a win to me haha
I bought a ball hone and did everything myself. I have way way under 1k in to an engine that should handle 300whp on the street.

OP should do the same IMO as he has the same goals.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:28 PM
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if only it was really that cheap
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
I bought a ball hone and did everything myself. I have way way under 1k in to an engine that should handle 300whp on the street.

OP should do the same IMO as he has the same goals.
No offense but there is a difference between a ball hone build and a blueprinted block and balanced rotating assembly
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:38 PM
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I don't see even a proper rods-refresh costing much under 1 grand. unless you cut every corner
head refresh alone is 250 minimum
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by matrussell122 View Post
No offense but there is a difference between a ball hone build and a blueprinted block and balanced rotating assembly

I'm only offended that you're putting words in my mouth. I sure as **** didn't say they were the same.

OP already said he doesn't have the money for a fully built engine. I'm pointing out that he doesn't need anything more than rods to meet his 300 whp street car aspirations. Stock engine or 12k engine are not the only options is all I'm saying.

Last edited by SpartanSV; 10-03-2018 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
it should be illegal to remove/open up a BP and not install forged rods.

illegal

like...you get 20 to life for doing it.
He did say he was gonna put Ebay rods in it... I guess it depends on how torn down it is already...
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:15 PM
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well then he's doin it right
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:13 PM
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Lol yeah I don't have 12k to drop in the motor.
Oil pan an various other seals leaking so I've got pretty much everything off except the head. An I won't be going e85 I was just stating that I don't plan on trying to pass the 300 mark(at least for a couple years).

Can the 10-1 pistons not handle around 275 without getting detonation?

Are OEM seals crank, rear main, etc really that much superior. I've always used feltpro on these an never had an issue.. except with the ol 1.6 if I recall correctly.

Can anyone recommend a source for rings since Rockauto appears to be out?

My engine cost list looks like this:
$180 - Clean an hone block and do ring clearance
$120 - ACL Bearings
$275 - eBay "maxriceing" rods
$80 - nb2 OEM head gasket
$65 - Rockauto rings
$75 - water pump and timing belt
Total: $795
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:22 PM
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For rings either oem or supertech from fab9.com

As far as seals my experience has been that on everything from miatas to motorcycles to snowmobile the only seals that last have been oem.

Here are eagle rods for only $50 more.
https://www.redline360.com/eagle-rod...oaAj3rEALw_wcB

Might be worth doing your timing components to since youre in there and they are wear items
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:23 PM
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If you're opening the motor, do any kind of rods, NA pistons can be gotten on Ebay on the cheap, or post a wtb looking for NA pistons right on mt.net and I'm sure you'll find some.
All new bearings and oem seals.

machine work if block is good, is just clean, and hone. $100-150. That's it.

I bought a 94 block with pistons and all for $100 with a bent rod. Kept pistons. Acl bearings, Mahle rings, hone, clean, oem seals, Ebay rods. 99 oem head gasket.(with reroute) Done. Reused headbolts . All in all, cost was way way under $1k. Like $700 including block and machine work.

making 309hp for 5k miles already with 160 compression across the board.
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 2N0B0dy1 View Post
Lol yeah I don't have 12k to drop in the motor.
Oil pan an various other seals leaking so I've got pretty much everything off except the head. An I won't be going e85 I was just stating that I don't plan on trying to pass the 300 mark(at least for a couple years).

Can the 10-1 pistons not handle around 275 without getting detonation?

Are OEM seals crank, rear main, etc really that much superior. I've always used feltpro on these an never had an issue.. except with the ol 1.6 if I recall correctly.

Can anyone recommend a source for rings since Rockauto appears to be out?

My engine cost list looks like this:
$180 - Clean an hone block and do ring clearance
$120 - ACL Bearings
$275 - eBay "maxriceing" rods
$80 - nb2 OEM head gasket
$65 - Rockauto rings
$75 - water pump and timing belt
Total: $795
I got my Maxspeedingrods for $240 shipped just fyi...$35 bucks is $35 bucks







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Old 10-03-2018, 10:09 PM
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If youre not in a rush, ebay has had a bunch of 15% off coupons recently. Might be cheaper to order rods, NA8 pistons, and bearings on there. And anything else generic.

I might have missed it but are you doing a coolant reroute? You want an nb1 head gasket if you're doing that ... And you should do it!
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