Smoking out the exhaust
 

The car has been smoking periodically for the past couple weeks here and there. It usually does it when I start it up at idle, and when I'm driving I can sometimes see it.

Well I just changed the oil and let it warm up and it seems like its smoking worse than before (I've run 10-30 Mobil 1 since I got the car in 2004). :cry: The smoke looks blue as if its an oil issue.

I checked the antifreeze and it looks fine. When I changed the oil, everything looked normal and black.

I did however notice that the line on my PCV valve is a little loose. Could this be the problem? I think I actually might have a spare somewhere around here, but I'm not sure. I just remember talk about PCV valves causing this problem before.

I'm getting ready to hop in the shower and head out for the night, but if its possible that I can fix this before I go that would be great.

Any ideas?

If the PVC valve is the culprate then its either shoving oil into your intake and running through your charge pipes and getting burned and then smoke or oil can go the other way directly into the intake the get burned and smoke!

seals could be bad in the turbo which would cause it to smoke (i had this problem, it started out not to bad and not often, then got really bad and replace the turbo and it was fixed) you could be getting to much oil to the turbo or your valve seals could be going or your piston rings could be going!

not trying to scare you just giving you the different possibilities!

also your drain turbo oil drain line could be clogged as well!

I would take one of your charge pipes off and see if there is an excessive amount of oil. Do you just breath the driver side crankcase to atmosphere or is it plumbed into your intake.

Changing the PCV is a pretty darn good start thats quick and cheap.

After that I wonder about valve seals after that.

I had a weird issue once where it would smoke a bit when I boosted it. Turned out to be an oil leak on the DP that would only smoke when there was a bit more heat than normal.

/\ This, take the intake pipe off first! the the turbo exit charge pipe!

OP if your gonna change your PVC valve get one from a 89 323 turbo! its rated to handle boost!

WHAT1!?! That's crazy talk right thar.

Keep in mind Vash that turbo seals are infallible.

I emailed FM about a replacement PCV line, they said they just use standard high pressure line. Don't really know how though, there's no way you're getting 5/16" to slip on, and 3/8" would be loose on the PCV valve. This is dealing with the Mazda 323 valve FM sent me. Maybe they just crank down on the hose clamp. Food for thought.

Check your IC piping and a leakdown/compression test may be in your future.

Ok so I just went out and replaced the PCV valve and re-zip tied the hose.

At first there was no smoke and I thought "no fucking way, that's it!"......then it started to smoke again.

Thing is, I was driving the car around today and it wasn't this bad, at all.

Now I changed the oil and its 10x worse. :vash:

I'm going to run out and pull the coldside pipe off the IC and take a look. I don't have the time, nor the daylight to get involved with pulling the downpipe tonight.

Just in time to fuck me up for the UCONN car show next weekend! :cry:

BTW, the PCV valve I took out was labeled E301A, and the one I put in was a PCV1162. I know that I got the one for a 323 turbo when I bought one, I'm just not sure which is which.

Going to pull the IC pipe and I'll report back.

I've been patiently waiting for my: "dont say i didnt warn you post"

lol

In regards to my ign table?

I pulled the coldside IC pipe and it's dry as a fart. Zero signs of oil. My greddy setup used to sometimes leave some oil residue in the IC pipe, but when I just checked there was none.

Now I'm wondering if fucking around with the car the other night if I did something. My buddy and I were out and he told me that I never did any burnouts or anything cool when he was in the car, so I ripped it up a couple times. The car seemed fine, even days later.

Its just weird that I change the oil and now its smoking wayy more than it did. Like I said, it was just here and there up until right now.

Is 10-30 too thin of oil? I've been using the same oil and filter since I bought the car, so I couldn't imagine that's the case, but maybe whatever was leaking before is leaking even more now with the fresh oil.

I'm wondering if I should even take it out tonight or not. Fuck me! :vash:

Just for shits and giggles, try ditching the PCV system entirely.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Pull the line and cap both sides?

Cap the nipple on the manifold and vent the PCV and VC breather to atmosphere.

Is the turbo blown? Mine smoked when it blew now that it's rebuilt it doesn't smoke any more. GL

Time to rip apart the motor and build her up :)

Did you ever run det cans?

I just went back and looked at your map and my god that's out there. I mean holy shit! Is that hustler's map? You're not that much of a man to get away with that. That's like me going out with a supermodel dude...can't pull it off.

I'm pretty sure ragged edge timing is what killed my last motor. Started smoking slowly, just little puffs, and gradually got worse. #2 oil control ring completely compressed. Sucked oil up in vacuum, and pressurized crank case in boost. I kept denying it, but I was pushing it. Fast and fun while it lasted, real pain when it finally started laying down a WWI style smoke screen behind the car. I still haven't sorted all the nagging issues from the motor swap.


EDIT:

Seriously dude. Between the numbers you're laying down and that timing map....I bet the only reason it lasted long enough for the rings to go is because you've got lower compression from your bent rods.

Do a postmortem on that motor and post is up as a lesson. We all WANT 250whp and badass advance out of a stock motor, but it doesn't last long.

Look on the bright side, you're gonna have a build motor to match that work of art Abe made for ya.



EDIT 2:

Sorry, Joe, I didn't mean to scare you, and I really hope it's something else, but man you are on the ragged edge.

Tell us about the .035" restrictor on the turbo oil feed.

^^^ +1

Chaning the oil AFAIK is going to affect viscosity a tiny bit. Dirty stuff will be more 'gloopy'. That a technical term you assholes, so lay off ;)

The thinner new oil might be going past turbo seals/ring/valve seals more. If I knew any real specific shit about restrictors I would probably be saying +1 to the restrictor idea, but I dont so I wont. But it might be consistent with the fact that changing the oil affects it so much.

And I guess I say this in every damned thread, but that does not mean I am wrong. Comp test. At least then you have the peace of mind of knowing your rings are not shot.

This is just a hypothesis, but where is your oil drain located on your pan? Could it be, when you do an oil change your oil level is a bit too high, and then your oil drain backs up a bit? Then once it's burnt out enough oil, the level drops enough to allow the drain to work properly?

In my opinion its either this:


or this:


Unfortunately I am leaning more toward scenario #1. Your timing map is fucking AGGRESSIVE. You are on stock engine. To be honest I was shocked when you posted your maps/results. I thought: "its only a matter of time".

Wow, that first post is exactly word for word the same problems I am having right now. My current solution is:
Attachment 198861

...and to replace valve seals, headgasket, and rings. I just don't understand how this happens all of a sudden. That sucks dude, I know exactly how you feel

Head gasket repair (AGAIN) - MX-5 Miata Forum

Have you checked your plugs to determine which cylinders are leaking oil? Also I can't find your spark map...

if you're going to tear it apart. DO IT RIGHT and build it broham:)

it is what it is.

You're wrong. Changing to a thicker oil never has or will stop leaks, that's not how it works.

What EEZ IT, man?

Link to spark table?

A quick look at the pistons will tell you if the motor is dead or if its the turbo. I suggest a bore-scope with lots of resolution.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...3-igntable.jpg

You typed lubrication first, didn't you?

C

the 35* shit is a little wack, but this is mine at 8.6:1 4*behind MBT (no detonation limit anywhere)
http://i33.tinypic.com/1zaydu.jpg
I've never tuned a 1.6 or seen a spark table from a respectable individual, but I don't think his spark table is unsafe. Where are his det-cans?

I let biology produce the lubricant.

What these playas said...

At 9.4:1cr on pump gas, I'd call that a bit unsafe.

Vash is making over 250rwhp, running 20* of spark on his stock 1.6L at +12psi. I suggested this day would come, but I was shrugged off. "It is what it is" what does the :brain: know? who am I to know?

Also consider that making the same amount of power on a 1.6L requires higher cylinder pressures than a 1.8L, making the knock threshold lower.

Is his car 9.4:1 or 9.0?

Playschool Dynojet or a proper adult dyno? Tone down your disrespect.

I stand corrected. However smaller cylinder bores allow for more spark advance due to some weird volumetric math shit that I don't understand but that's the logic behind motorcycles running 15:1 compression ratios with 30* of advance at 100kpa...but I bet piston speed has something to do with that too.

You mofo's have some crazy fucking ignition maps. Holy shit:eek5:
20* at peak boost? 34+ in various other areas? WOWW

If its a stock 1.6 from a manual transmission car -> 9.4:1

24* at 4500rpm/peak torque/12psi. I've had 28* there with no detonation

oh yeah, he fucked up. Better hope that timing light is really slow.

The stock 1.6L map looks something like this at WOT:

Didn't realise it ran so much timing stock.
So he's basically not retarding spark AT ALL in teh midrange at 12psi according to that post and his map? shittt

I took the car out last night and made it! lol

I left here when it was already dark out, and with the tint on the windows its hard to see if I was smoking, but I didnt see anything.

The car acted halfway decent last night, but now I have another issue. :facepalm:

There is some more than normal clatter from the transmission. I know its been a long time since I even drove the miata, so getting used to all the noises and the general loudness of the car took awhile for sure. But this is definitely making me worry.

As I was typing this just now, I remembered that I had a dream last night that I lost 3rd gear and had to drive it around like that. Or maybe that really happened.....? I better go check the car.

I'm going to assume the worst and start planning on re-building the motor, or swapping in another one. The car has seemed pretty strong up until this point, but I guess all good things must come to an end. :cry:

And when I get a second I'm going to run out and pull the plugs and see what I find.

I'll report back later.

inspecting the plugs thoroughly should REALLY help you figure out how the engine is behaving

I just took it down to the gas station quick and its still smoking, pretty bad actually. :cry:

Looks like I'll be going back to borrowing a car, getting rides, or longboarding to get around. Perfect, just in time for the nice weather.

So now I have 2 questions. lol

Why would it start to smoke this much more after a oil change? And is it ok to drive it like this for the time being (not anything more than just normal driving around town)?

me personally i wouldnt drive it!

do a compression and leak down test for good measure! if that comes back good then i would say its has somthing to do with your oil feed, drain or its your turbo!

does it smoke all the time, or just when in positive pressure?

I think today when I pull the plugs I'll check out the feed and drain lines on the turbo.

When I first started it up, it didnt seem as if it was smoking. I got to the bottom of the road and I sat in the car and waited. It almost seemed like as it was getting warmer, it was smoking more. Sometimes at idle it would barely smoke, other times it was a lot. I would give it gas and it was the same deal. On my way back up the hill I was watching in the mirror and it wasn't billowing out or anything, but I definitely left a little smoke behind me. Nothing major, but I could see it in the distance.

I hate to tell you, but sounds like what mine was doing.

Oh man that shit sucks! Hope it's something stupid but for the sound of it I don't think it is. Hopefully you get it sorted out by the Uconn meet.

Unhook your pcv lines completely and drive around to see if it still smokes. I still think its the turbo.

i say turbo as well!

Ok, spark plugs are out. I attached pictures of them below.

Now I just want to clarify before I go ahead and do this. Shall I pull the turbo oil feed line, stick it in a cup, start the car and turn it off right away, then check the cup for oil? Repeat and do the same thing for the oil drain line?

I also found my compression tester while I was out in the garage. Brand new in the box still, which also means I have no idea how to use it. :noob: I plan on looking that up tonight and maybe doing the test tomorrow.

This car takes entirely too much time out of too many of my days. :vash:

That looks like a fair bit of flecking on #4. #1 isn't looking super hot either.

Well, at least 1.6 motors are dirt cheap!

I pulled the air filter off just to peak at the turbo and I now have a considerable amount of shaft play. You can see in the picture where the blades have been rubbing. :vash:

I want to see if I can check and verify oil to and from the turbo. Is what I wrote above sound like a plan? I'm just assuming that's the best way to do it, but want to make sure before I do.

BTW, thanks for all the feedback guys. :bigtu: .......even if it is bad news..... :cry:

Time for that Ebay turbo you've always wanted :P.

lol

I was just thinking of pulling it and sending it out for a re-build, but I wouldn't mind switching to a ebay turbo if that's the better path. I'm not much for "brand names" if I don't have to be.

I'm at the point now where I just want to figure out what needs fixed, make a plan to fix whats fucked that I can afford, and move on.

At first I was in a rush to have things sorted out by next weekend for the car show, but I have too many other priorities right now that need taken care of. The only reason it sucks about the car is really cause its my only mode of transportation. And there's no way I can longboard everywhere I have to go in a days time.

is your turbo ball bearing out journal?

i thought ball bearing turbos couldnt be rebuilt?