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Swapping a MSM engine into an NA8

 
Old 10-08-2018, 04:19 PM
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Default Swapping a MSM engine into an NA8

Hi guys, I just joined to ask for some advice about a dilema I'm having. I blew the head gasket in my 1996 NA and the cylinders are now rusty so I figured I would swap in a new engine.

I was planning on turboing my engine, and now I'm planning on swapping in a new 1.8 and turboing it later.

However, in my local listings a MSM engine with a FM Big Enchilada kit popped up for roughly 5000 bucks (canadian). Only problem is it doesn't come with a working turbo, apparently it has failed seals and can be repaired.

I was wondering if anyone knew what would be involved with this kind of swap. I've heard things about the exhaust not mounting into the NA chassis properly, electrical plugs needing to be changed and all sorts of other stuff. I'm not sure if I should buy this setup and get it to work, or just buy a regular 1.8 and turbo it later, which would likely be significantly more expensive.

Any advice would be much appreciated, I'm in Ottawa, Canada BTW. Thanks!
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:30 PM
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$5000? for just the engine? Am I reading that right? I mean even if it included the whole MSM I would still be aghast.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:33 PM
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stop.
turn off all classifieds ads.
learn.
?????
not ask silly questions about terrible decisions
profit
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:34 PM
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Go Here

To me, the $5K seems high for non-functional. Also, if it is Hydra ECU, support will be sparse.

Go over to the Meet and Greet area, introduce yourself, and become part of this awesome forum.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:34 PM
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I only see 2 reasons to do a full MSM swap:

1. You have certain emissions or engine swap laws that force you to use an "OEM package deal" engine
2. The MSM engine/manifold/turbo/lines/etc is the same cost, or just slightly more expensive than a standard 1.8L, however I'd use it with a standalone ECU

MSM engines are good, they are basically BP4W's, which is a desirable motor. There is no reason to pay more for an MSM motor than a BP4W, though. The turbo has a low power ceiling and spools slowly, and it's not so economical to upgrade the turbo itself while keeping the manifold (so if you want more than 200whp, you're going to be replacing everything anyway). The MSM ECU is also pretty bad, there are lots of driveability issues with them, and there are a lot of work arounds to get them to drive okay. If your laws allow it, a standalone will give you a much much better experience. Using the MSM ECU in a swap is also a ton of work, because you need to find a way to patch the whole harness, not worth it. If an MSM motor is really cheap, then use it, get a standalone, and enjoy ~200whp. Since this particular MSM engine is not cheap at all, I would pass and try to find a BW4W or a VVT motor, or even an NA 1.8 (because it'll save you 4500 bucks that you could put towards good parts).
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:37 PM
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If you ignore post #3 and decide to go through with this terrible idea..

..I will gladly sell you a working msm engine/turbo/etc for the same price
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
If you ignore post #3 and decide to go through with this terrible idea..

..I will gladly sell you a working msm engine/turbo/etc for the same price
Hey, I saw him first, I have a BP05 I would gladly part with for $4500.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:43 PM
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Alright, well the only 1.8s I've found near me are like 700 bucks for one with 300000km on it. this engine has 100000km and the good ones on ebay are at least 1500 US plus shipping to canada and conversion to CAD would be like 2500 canadian. The big enchilada alone is like 3500 US, plus conversion and shipping would be almost 5000 CAD which is why this seemed like a good deal. The FM turbo kits are also like 5k, again plus conversion and shipping would be closer to 7-8k, and I'd still need an engine.

This includes an intercooler and associated piping, a full exhaust and a standalone ECU.

So it seems like the general consensus is that I should buy a regular 1.8 and patch together a turbo kit from other parts, problem is that would likely cost at least the same amount, probably more but I suppose I'll just read until it comes to me.

Also 200whp would be more than enough for me.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:50 PM
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Your biggest problem is not lack of money.
It is lack of knowledge.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Your biggest problem is not lack of money.
It is lack of knowledge.
Thanks, but thats not at all helpful.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zoomafou View Post
Thanks, but thats not at all helpful.
It actually is you just aren't getting it.

Put your wallet away and start reading until you look back at this thread and realize how little you knew.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:59 PM
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So... Whats wrong with this deal, cost? Quality of the parts? Everything?

Regardless, like I said I'll just keep reading and hopefully it'll come to me. Problem is every thread seems to end with someone telling the OP that they need to read more.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:23 PM
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And yet no reading occurs, just bitter, confused responses.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stock View Post
And yet no reading occurs, just bitter, confused responses.
I'm sure thats a regular occurance around here.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by zoomafou View Post
Problem is every thread seems to end with someone telling the OP that they need to read more.

That's bullshit and shows how lazy you're being.

I'll jump start your research by telling you the MSM turbo is a turd. No one turboing a miata on a budget in 2018 buys a new FM kit of any kind so don't look at that when comparing cost. You're also grossly exaggerating the exchange rate.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:49 PM
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Find a decent BP05 engine and swap that in, then save for the turbo bits and boost it when your ready. Any Miata engine will easily support 200whp no need to build it. And as everyone else has said dont get the MSM engine its really nothing special. Also, there is plenty of good reading material around here youll find it.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV View Post
That's bullshit and shows how lazy you're being.

I'll jump start your research by telling you the MSM turbo is a turd. No one turboing a miata on a budget in 2018 buys a new FM kit of any kind so don't look at that when comparing cost. You're also grossly exaggerating the exchange rate.
I'm aware the turbo is ****, I've shopped around for other kits and I've been looking at classifieds for months. Plus if you inquire as to shipping, customs and exchange rates you'll find my estimates to be pretty accurate. It just irks me that everyone assumes I haven't done any research.

Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
Find a decent BP05 engine and swap that in, then save for the turbo bits and boost it when your ready. Any Miata engine will easily support 200whp no need to build it. And as everyone else has said dont get the MSM engine its really nothing special. Also, there is plenty of good reading material around here youll find it.
That seems to be the consensus, I'll ask the guy for a deal on just the engine, ECU and injectors. and sort out the exhaust myself, turbo later. If that doesn't work I'll find a different engine. Thanks!
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zoomafou View Post
ECU and injectors.
-a fool and his money shall soon part ways
You should have just told us from the beginning that you wanted ignorant validation, we would have made this a lot easier for you.

Here:
SURE! GET IT! you're gonna love it
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
You should have just told us from the beginning that you wanted ignorant validation, we would have made this a lot easier for you.

Here:

It's a standalone, and that, plus a wideband is exactly what it says to do in the stickied threads so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Don't you have anything better to do than **** on people that haven't spent years reading a forum? You've done nothing in this thread other than be an *******.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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Get out. We have standards here
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