Taping Oil Pan Need Some Advice/Pics
 

Ok, I need to tap the pan. Seeing how I can't do anything the "accepted" way, I bought -12AN stainless braided lines and a 3/4" NPT pipe to -12AN fitting to go into the oil pan. And a 45* -12AN to hose fitting to attach to said fitting in oil pan. And this isn't gonna work under the A/C compressor. Here's what it looks like. Just forward of the drivers side motor mount basically.

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Here's where I want to put there.

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So big question: If I somehow figure out how to drill a hole here, will I be drilling into the oil pickup tube? Anyone got some pics of the oil pan so I can figure out if it's OK to drill here?

ALSO: I need to pull the transmission to put the clutch in. So Should I just pull the engine/trans as a unit and then drop the pan to drill/tap it and pull the transmission and swap the clutch? I'm somewhat leaning toward this option as harder, but better. Still would suck though. But I dunno, how hard is it to pull the engine? Looks easy. Is it? And could I possibly pull the pan and redo it without an oil pan gasket? It's just RTV shit, but then there's the front and rear rubber seals. Could I just RTV them and be ok?

Grrrr.

pics dont work

Call me crazy, but I have found it easier to pull the engine(only) for a clutch replacement than dropping the transmission. Mainly because working old and alone I spend very little time under the car and no time lifting anything other than with a cherry picker or hoist.

After the motor is out, support the transmission with a chunk of wood cut to size on the sub frame and the motor drops back in nicely.

Make sure you mark where you want the fitting on the oil pan BEFORE pulling the engine.

I've pulled my motor+trans a couple times, its definitely easier in my mind than dropping the tranny, especially if you have a cherry picker, a nice garage, and an engine stand. and you're N/A, so that simplifies things. Its more steps for sure, and possibly more time consuming, but much much much less frustrating and back breaking.

I'd go to a 90 degree fitting instead of the 45, I tried that and it didn't turn quite enough. I think I ended up bashing my 45 with a hammer (deadblow), but if I did it all over again I'd start with a 90. Although I think I drilled a little farther forward, and my problem was the 45 was making the drain tube rub on the steering stem.

edit: That's 2 votes for pulling engine+trans. FM's trackdog build has some good photos of basically a fully assembled turbo engine with drain for you to look at, although they didn't have a/c to worry about.

Pics fixed.

So you left the transmission in the car, and pulled the engine? Wow. That sounds like a winner to me. Just support the transmission and pull the engine basically. I have a cherry picker.

So pulling the engine I'd just undo the wiring and hoses, remove radiator, unbolt the A/C and P/S units and lay them to the side, lines still attached, unbolt motor mounts and bell housing bolts, then move the engine forward and up to separate it from the transmission? Seems like it would have to go up a lot to get the clearance to go forward enough.

I've done it that way on several 1.6' and 1.8's. Most of the time I've pulled the head first, but removing the coils and CAS gives you room to play with.

That is where FM puts their oil returns on cars they pull the engines on from the pictures I have seen. That is also where the oil return is on the picture in the FAQ. That is where I put my oil return too when I was swapping engines last week.

You have to make sure that the fitting that is going into that area is flush on the inside of the pan. The pick up tube isn't there, but the higher you get on the pan the closer the windage tray/oil baffle (whatever it is) is to the pan. I would think if you went too far you could stop the flow of oil or impede it enough to create a problem. I don't have any data to support that other than my observation while I was doing it.

I wouldn't pull the engine just to put the oil return there though.

This is from a guy over on miata.net that welded a bung in. I used this same location. I have AC but no PS. The guy that did this has both if I remember correctly.

http://screaminmiata.googlepages.com/Bungwengincar.jpg

Can I ask what you don't like about doing it the "accepted" way?

Pulling the motor without the tranny is sort of foolish, though. You still spend time under the car undoing 11 very tight bolts with a variety of u-joints, 24" extensions, and a big breaker bar. If you just leave the tranny attached, it all comes out as one nice smooth piece, and then it's easy to break it all loose, separate the two, do your job, and put it all back together where you can actually see/reach shit.

I've had the tranny out of a Miata 6 times. 4 on a 2-post lift, once on jackstands (fuck that), and once with the engine. The lift method is way easy since you are standing to reach everything, but if you don't have one, pulling the engine is the way to go. Fuck jackstands, it's so uncomfortable and dirty and just generally unpleasant.

Oh I thought Olderguy meant engine and tranny out as one, nevermind, he is crazy.

if you're going to unbolt the tranny, at that point just drop the tranny and leave the engine in. but as Savington said, if you don't have access to a lift, pull the engine w/tranny attached.

Engine/Tranny at the same time is the best way :bigtu:

Here's what my driveway looked like when I did my clutch/pan tap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ile/img006.jpg
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I have pulled engine and tranny, and it is nowhere as easy as just the engine. All the bolts are easily accessible with the coil and CAS off, you don't need to do anything to the trans, ppf, driveshaft, etc. and you don't drop trans oil anyplace.

You do need to drop the exhaust either way, and maybe the clutch slave bracket is easier on the outside, but you should replace that whole system with a SS line anyway.

All of your bolts are broken with good solid support instead of chasing the engine-tranny around on the floor trying to break the tough ones.

Normally would take me one day from start to finish working alone.

Mine has a turbo oil drain flange bolted to the pan.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JGvJklEgui0/R_...2/CIMG0816.JPG

I just pull the engine.
I hate the f'n PPF for some reason.
After pulling the engine on my car about 10 times now its pretty simple for me now.
The 1st time is kinda a PITA.

You got it though Pat. No problem...

Pat i sent you an oil pan complete with the windage tray and pickup tube. Why dont you just look at that instead of asking for pics?

I like that welded bung idea alot. I am hopefully going to be doing the oil return tapping this weekend when I get my engine out again. Has anyone done a nut inside the oil pan to keep the fitting from getting completely ripped off? Im probably going to do the AN fitting like Pat. Something about threading a fitting into such a thin material (3/16''-1/4'' maybe?) makes me worry. Not much thread there. So many people have done it without issue though. I like to worry I guess.

Did the nut inside, but there isn't much clearance in that area. Check all your fits before putting on the RTV. Don't ask how I know:giggle:

http://myturbomiata.com/journal/albums/BEGi/begi26.jpg

http://myturbomiata.com/journal/albums/BEGi/begi27.jpg

http://boostedmiata.com/blown_engine...inepull021.jpg

http://boostedmiata.com/blown_engine...ssemble017.jpg

http://boostedmiata.com/blown_engine...ssemble018.jpg

I'm swapping on a MSM pan. Makes life very simple. :)

daddy has a lift, I just pull the trans.

Dont pull a Loki and drill/tap too far:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...15-medium-.jpg

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...17-medium-.jpg

It already has a drain???

of course it does :)

Yeah. This method sucked hardcore.

I touched my pickup, but did not cut through...

get taller jackstands, an impact wrench, a few extensions, and a friend.

dropping a tranny is easy, removing the motor, while in itself is easy as well, is more of a pain IMO.


I mean I literally only have to:

remove the DP (5 bolts)
drain tranny
remove the bell housing bolts (11)
remove the slave (2 bolts)
remove the shift knob (unscrew)
remove the shift boots (6 bolts)
remove the driveshaft (4 bolts)
remove the PPF bolts (2)


then it's dropping time. Last time I swapped my clutch out it was 2 hours on the dot, three the week before. Takes me about an hour or two to get the motor ready to pull, and I'm left with a garage full of parts and bolts. In general, to me, it's more of a pita.

If you need to pull the motor to tap your pan, you need a small asain friend or something...

Might hit the baffle first.

I'm trying olderguy's method of pulling the engine only and leaving the transmission in the car, still attached and properly aligned to the PPF. Got everything unbolted. Everything. Just need to hook the picker up and snatch it out. That will be for tomorrow.

Questions: What do yall use on the oil pan for a gasket. I know Mazda used some fancy shit that's like JB Weld/RTV. Really good stuff that never leaks. And I know RTV will likely leak. So what's the best I can buy as far as sealant for the oil pan?

Also, anyone here reuse the old pilot and T/O bearings? I now know the car has had a clutch put in it before so they aren't the factory parts. Probably ~3-4 years old and 50K tops on the parts if I had to guess. Not planning on changing them unless they're shot when I pull it apart. I know this summer I'll be pulling the engine again anyways for a built motor.

Ordered the oil pan seal things and a clutch alignment tool today, should be here in the morning. Hope to pull the engine, have that fitting welded on to the pan, install new clutch, and put the motor back in tomorrow. Then cut some of the car for the intercooler pipes and work on downpipe. Once all that's done, I'm home free. :):):):)

You could get fancy and cut your own gasket from that rubber/paper DIY gasket stuff, then coat both sides with a thin layer of RTV. I just used plain RTV, it didnt leak for the whole 10-15 miles I made it :vash:

I would never try to reuse t/o or pilot bearing myself. They dont cost much, and I would be super pissed to get it all back together and have a slight rattle or some other kind of noise. Hell, my brand new t/o and pilot bearing is making some noise. I think its the fork, the t/o bearing is rattling loose on it at idle or driving with the clutch disengaged.

I used the grey RTV, I forget the designation. I would replace the t/o and pilot bearing especially if you know they are not OEM for the reasons above. I have had non-OEM t/o bearings fail.

A/N oil pan bung
 

An has an oil pan bung that goes for about 15 dollars. I never came across it till the s2000 setup i just finished for a client. I'll try to find a picture of it, but it made life really easy and so far its not leaking on the s2k :)

dont forget to support the transmission pat, its an easy thing to forget about, but when the motor is pulled out the only thing holding it up for a second is the spline on the transmission, then when it gets pulled out, whammy! the transmission could just fall out. I suggest having a jack under the transmission so you can adjust it and keep the load off of the drive spline.

+1 on having a non-oem TO bearing fail. At least you can still drive, I had to make it 25 miles home from work by starting the engine in first and shifting without disengaging the clutch.

haha, I have three of those clutch alignment tools. one from the OEM clutch I put in, one from the stupid ebay clutch that blew up, and one from the spec clutch that's in there now.

This should answer your question, looks like hot shit. I used orange rtv and it sealed fine, its ugly though, and this stuff looks better.
Targa Miata

I find this amusing.
:giggle:

Anyone ever had a non OEM pilot or t/o bearing make noise right away? I had a Prelude once that had a problem with the aftermarket t/o bearing making some noise as soon as the install was done and I was driving it for the first time. Same goes with my new ACT clutch. The little bit I got to drive it I could hear some rattle from the t/o bearing. They should supply OEM with their kits if they are that poor of quality. Im going to take my chances with the pilot bearing though. The fit was soooo tight. Im scared to mess with it any more. Its in and straight and seems to be smooth and quiet.

black RTV.
I'd might as well change the TOB, pilot is more than likely fine.

Done. And it was a bitch.

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dont you hate those cheap ass tapping tools? I always go the socket method too.

I'll tell you what I really hate. When I was in high school in machine shop, I made some tools. Made a punch that had a weight you could lift, then drop, and it made the punch mark. I even knurled the weight and oil hardened the tip. No hammer required and greater precision. Also made a 3 way air splitter for air hoses. And also made a tap T handle like the one in the picture. Only mine was big, beefy, and perfect. Would hold a 1" NPT tap. (3/4" NPT in pic)

And hurricane Katrina took them all away. :mad: Yeah, chineese shit sucks.

Why did you tap it at such an angle? And I don't think you got enough JB Weld on there.

if it weren't for the jb weld, those threads would fail. they're not even threads. they're just angled lines. did you oblong the hole to make the tap thread? I don't even know how you did that. As a machinist I've had my fair share of fuck ups, but I've never done that, much less on purpose.

Cause if I tapped is straight I wouldn't be able to connect the 45* -12AN to hose fitting to it as it would interfere with the power steering lines and steering shaft. I was going to just cut the 3/4" NPT end off the fitting and have it welded to the pan. Then, I'd barely have enough room. But alas both my welders are either busy or out of town. So I taped it at an angle so it would fit. And JB'd it so hopefully it won't leak. I have another 99' oil pan and this summer, I'll redo it right when I build a motor. Just hope this works well till then.

And yeah, I got the industrial size JB weld. :fawk:

Yeah, it would never seal without the JB. I had to drill it crocked and that was hard. Getting a tapered tap started that crocked was even harder. I know it ain't pretty, but it's actually pretty damn solidly mounted into the pan. Just hope the JB keeps it sealed. I've JB'd oil pans before though, so I'm confident it will hold.

EDIT: Also, what you can't see is that before I JB'd it, I scratched the aluminum up very well around the fitting, and scratched the anodized shit off the fitting too. So it was well prepped.