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Old 12-18-2008, 10:20 PM   #1
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Exclamation Taping Oil Pan Need Some Advice/Pics

Ok, I need to tap the pan. Seeing how I can't do anything the "accepted" way, I bought -12AN stainless braided lines and a 3/4" NPT pipe to -12AN fitting to go into the oil pan. And a 45* -12AN to hose fitting to attach to said fitting in oil pan. And this isn't gonna work under the A/C compressor. Here's what it looks like. Just forward of the drivers side motor mount basically.

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Here's where I want to put there.

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So big question: If I somehow figure out how to drill a hole here, will I be drilling into the oil pickup tube? Anyone got some pics of the oil pan so I can figure out if it's OK to drill here?

ALSO: I need to pull the transmission to put the clutch in. So Should I just pull the engine/trans as a unit and then drop the pan to drill/tap it and pull the transmission and swap the clutch? I'm somewhat leaning toward this option as harder, but better. Still would suck though. But I dunno, how hard is it to pull the engine? Looks easy. Is it? And could I possibly pull the pan and redo it without an oil pan gasket? It's just RTV ****, but then there's the front and rear rubber seals. Could I just RTV them and be ok?

Grrrr.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:22 PM   #2
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pics dont work
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:36 PM   #3
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Call me crazy, but I have found it easier to pull the engine(only) for a clutch replacement than dropping the transmission. Mainly because working old and alone I spend very little time under the car and no time lifting anything other than with a cherry picker or hoist.

After the motor is out, support the transmission with a chunk of wood cut to size on the sub frame and the motor drops back in nicely.

Make sure you mark where you want the fitting on the oil pan BEFORE pulling the engine.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:39 PM   #4
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I've pulled my motor+trans a couple times, its definitely easier in my mind than dropping the tranny, especially if you have a cherry picker, a nice garage, and an engine stand. and you're N/A, so that simplifies things. Its more steps for sure, and possibly more time consuming, but much much much less frustrating and back breaking.

I'd go to a 90 degree fitting instead of the 45, I tried that and it didn't turn quite enough. I think I ended up bashing my 45 with a hammer (deadblow), but if I did it all over again I'd start with a 90. Although I think I drilled a little farther forward, and my problem was the 45 was making the drain tube rub on the steering stem.

edit: That's 2 votes for pulling engine+trans. FM's trackdog build has some good photos of basically a fully assembled turbo engine with drain for you to look at, although they didn't have a/c to worry about.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:45 PM   #5
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Pics fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Call me crazy, but I have found it easier to pull the engine for a clutch replacement than dropping the transmission. Mainly because working old and alone I spend very little time under the car and no time lifting anything other than with a cherry picker or hoist.

After the motor is out, support the transmission with a chunk of wood cut to size on the sub frame and the motor drops back in nicely.

Make sure you mark where you want the fitting on the oil pan BEFORE pulling the engine.
So you left the transmission in the car, and pulled the engine? Wow. That sounds like a winner to me. Just support the transmission and pull the engine basically. I have a cherry picker.

So pulling the engine I'd just undo the wiring and hoses, remove radiator, unbolt the A/C and P/S units and lay them to the side, lines still attached, unbolt motor mounts and bell housing bolts, then move the engine forward and up to separate it from the transmission? Seems like it would have to go up a lot to get the clearance to go forward enough.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Pics fixed.


So you left the transmission in the car, and pulled the engine? Wow. That sounds like a winner to me. Just support the transmission and pull the engine basically. I have a cherry picker.

So pulling the engine I'd just undo the wiring and hoses, remove radiator, unbolt the A/C and P/S units and lay them to the side, lines still attached, unbolt motor mounts and bell housing bolts, then move the engine forward and up to separate it from the transmission? Seems like it would have to go up a lot to get the clearance to go forward enough.
I've done it that way on several 1.6' and 1.8's. Most of the time I've pulled the head first, but removing the coils and CAS gives you room to play with.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #7
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That is where FM puts their oil returns on cars they pull the engines on from the pictures I have seen. That is also where the oil return is on the picture in the FAQ. That is where I put my oil return too when I was swapping engines last week.

You have to make sure that the fitting that is going into that area is flush on the inside of the pan. The pick up tube isn't there, but the higher you get on the pan the closer the windage tray/oil baffle (whatever it is) is to the pan. I would think if you went too far you could stop the flow of oil or impede it enough to create a problem. I don't have any data to support that other than my observation while I was doing it.

I wouldn't pull the engine just to put the oil return there though.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:58 PM   #8
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This is from a guy over on miata.net that welded a bung in. I used this same location. I have AC but no PS. The guy that did this has both if I remember correctly.

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Old 12-18-2008, 11:07 PM   #9
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Can I ask what you don't like about doing it the "accepted" way?
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:10 PM   #10
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Pulling the motor without the tranny is sort of foolish, though. You still spend time under the car undoing 11 very tight bolts with a variety of u-joints, 24" extensions, and a big breaker bar. If you just leave the tranny attached, it all comes out as one nice smooth piece, and then it's easy to break it all loose, separate the two, do your job, and put it all back together where you can actually see/reach ****.

I've had the tranny out of a Miata 6 times. 4 on a 2-post lift, once on jackstands (**** that), and once with the engine. The lift method is way easy since you are standing to reach everything, but if you don't have one, pulling the engine is the way to go. **** jackstands, it's so uncomfortable and dirty and just generally unpleasant.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:16 PM   #11
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Oh I thought Olderguy meant engine and tranny out as one, nevermind, he is crazy.

if you're going to unbolt the tranny, at that point just drop the tranny and leave the engine in. but as Savington said, if you don't have access to a lift, pull the engine w/tranny attached.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:25 PM   #12
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Engine/Tranny at the same time is the best way

Here's what my driveway looked like when I did my clutch/pan tap.


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Old 12-18-2008, 11:41 PM   #13
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I have pulled engine and tranny, and it is nowhere as easy as just the engine. All the bolts are easily accessible with the coil and CAS off, you don't need to do anything to the trans, ppf, driveshaft, etc. and you don't drop trans oil anyplace.

You do need to drop the exhaust either way, and maybe the clutch slave bracket is easier on the outside, but you should replace that whole system with a SS line anyway.

All of your bolts are broken with good solid support instead of chasing the engine-tranny around on the floor trying to break the tough ones.

Normally would take me one day from start to finish working alone.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:45 PM   #14
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Mine has a turbo oil drain flange bolted to the pan.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:45 AM   #15
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I just pull the engine.
I hate the f'n PPF for some reason.
After pulling the engine on my car about 10 times now its pretty simple for me now.
The 1st time is kinda a PITA.

You got it though Pat. No problem...
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:35 AM   #16
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Pat i sent you an oil pan complete with the windage tray and pickup tube. Why dont you just look at that instead of asking for pics?
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:33 AM   #17
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I like that welded bung idea alot. I am hopefully going to be doing the oil return tapping this weekend when I get my engine out again. Has anyone done a nut inside the oil pan to keep the fitting from getting completely ripped off? Im probably going to do the AN fitting like Pat. Something about threading a fitting into such a thin material (3/16''-1/4'' maybe?) makes me worry. Not much thread there. So many people have done it without issue though. I like to worry I guess.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
I like that welded bung idea alot. I am hopefully going to be doing the oil return tapping this weekend when I get my engine out again. Has anyone done a nut inside the oil pan to keep the fitting from getting completely ripped off? Im probably going to do the AN fitting like Pat. Something about threading a fitting into such a thin material (3/16''-1/4'' maybe?) makes me worry. Not much thread there. So many people have done it without issue though. I like to worry I guess.
Did the nut inside, but there isn't much clearance in that area. Check all your fits before putting on the RTV. Don't ask how I know
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:41 AM   #19
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:41 AM   #20
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I'm swapping on a MSM pan. Makes life very simple.
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