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Old 09-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #1
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Default Timing Chart - What to do?

So here's my timing chart:


Never mind the non boost portion, I'm more interested in the 100kpa+ area. I've read on here that the timing should always increase, and I feel that perhaps my chart is quite conservative while in boost. I have tons of fuel still to add, so what suggestions can you give me to get some more power. I have tons of push around the 3000-4500, but then it drops off quite quickly.

Thanks
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:52 PM   #2
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dude wow you are running WI correct? Then try numbers more towards 20 degrees throughout the boost range and increase from there in baby steps. Gimme some specs on your WI system plz.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:53 PM   #3
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wow...your boosted portion looks more like AFR targets than a timing table.

I forget where I placed mine and am at work...but you can definitely ramp it up with rpm, and bump everything below 165kPa up a few degrees. (*blowing up motor NOT my fault)

I'd atleast get to the DIY conservative base map...and then start using det cans.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:53 PM   #4
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This is what I'm currently running. Pulls like a freight train. I'm only running up to 13psi atm.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:55 PM   #5
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holly lack of timming batman. is your FMIC that ineficient or are you running on 85 octane neon?
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #6
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You are either joking or you can't read well. Mine reads from the top left to the bottom right.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:03 PM   #7
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i see 15 degrees at 6600 and 260 kpa ah i was reading to far down your map continues past the point of useage ok now i get it 30 some odd is pretty balsy gj. <--newb to adaptronic sorry
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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I'm not running WI, but we have 94 octane on the pump here. Thanks for feedback folks, keep it coming
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
i see 15 degrees at 6600 and 260 kpa ah i was reading to far down your map continues past the point of useage ok now i get it 30 some odd is pretty balsy gj. <--newb to adaptronic sorry
I've got great ***** of fire!
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:55 PM   #10
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what do your AIT's say are you getting audiable knock or are you just not gaining anymore power for your timming?
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
what do your AIT's say are you getting audiable knock or are you just not gaining anymore power for your timming?
Well the car is off the road right now, so I'll have to do some data logging next week or so when I get a day pass. The only time I got knock was when the car boost spiked a few times, but it was hitting 20lbs, so that was a given (Seeing as how my map sensor doesn't even go that high). Otherwise it seems pretty good. The downside to this is that I don't have a wide band, so it's a bit sketchy. I have a ton of room to go on my injectors, and I have a larger fuel pump, so I figure if I increase the timing, just throw some more fuel at it, and should be alright.

I also have the problem of having a 2.25" exhaust after my 2.5" downpipe, so I need to get that fixed as well. Of course money is crazy tight, not working, full time student, daughter, wife... ughz.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:26 PM   #12
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Get a wideband in the car. It's much cheaper than a new motor. Anything else and you are only guessing. Fueling should be checked and very close before you start messing with the timing maps. Just my
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:32 PM   #13
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here's my new spark table, just to **** you off:

This was made with a turbine outlet leak though, so i backed it out a few degrees and listened for detonation with the det cans and its fine. gI'm going to the dyno again in a couple weeks. I expect extremely high output numbers with the free-er flowing ABSURDness.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by vw_nut View Post
Get a wideband in the car. It's much cheaper than a new motor. Anything else and you are only guessing. Fueling should be checked and very close before you start messing with the timing maps. Just my
Well up until 2 weeks ago, I worked at a shop with a dyno, and dyno runs were free, so I had a really good idea where I was sitting. But I had to leave because of school, took my car off the road, and now he's closing the shop up. So yah, wideband is coming soon. I'm thinking of trying the Prosport one since I have prosport gauges.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:42 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
here's my new spark table, just to **** you off:

This was made with a turbine outlet leak though, so i backed it out a few degrees and listened for detonation with the det cans and its fine. gI'm going to the dyno again in a couple weeks. I expect extremely high output numbers with the free-er flowing ABSURDness.
Holy crap, you're running more then twice the timing I am at the 200kpa range...
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:45 PM   #16
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get on a dyno...that's the best advice you can get. Build det cans to make sure its safe on the street, but use them on the dyno to find max torque in each cell. I prefer mustang dynos to anything else because they're the easiest to use and read. Its pretty sick when you can load up roller and pick your load cell and see the # increase. I dropped 12kpa points at 70mph after tuning for fuel economy. Its worth every cent.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Holy crap, you're running more then twice the timing I am at the 200kpa range...
yep, and you're not there yet:


any questions?

I was making 240wtq at 10psi at 4400rpm. I had drama though and had to cut the session off after about 15-minutes of tuning. I'll go up to 18-20 psi next time, just because I can. lol
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Well up until 2 weeks ago, I worked at a shop with a dyno, and dyno runs were free, so I had a really good idea where I was sitting. But I had to leave because of school, took my car off the road, and now he's closing the shop up. So yah, wideband is coming soon. I'm thinking of trying the Prosport one since I have prosport gauges.
I am very happy with my LC-1...there's a reason everyone who's someone swears by it.

Do you know what you're doing on a dyno? I ask this respectfully. Tuning should be very simple and utilitarian. I can spend no more than 1-hour and walk out with a perfectly tuned turbo car. Crap like a cast manifold, tiny little turbine housing, and small compressor won't allow as much spark advance as mine. I essentially have a compression ratio and turbine housing for a 500hp car, running it at 300 if you consider the popular mentality among e-tuners.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:52 PM   #19
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I am very happy with my LC-1...there's a reason everyone who's someone swears by it.

Do you know what you're doing on a dyno? I ask this respectfully. Tuning should be very simple and utilitarian. I can spend no more than 1-hour and walk out with a perfectly tuned turbo car.
I never tuned it on the dyno, my boss did. But he is super conservative with his tuning, like CRAZY conservative. The chart I posted has been increased by myself on the road. He also does a ton of Hondata tuning, and carb tuning. He's not really familiar with mazda's, their limits, etc.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
I never tuned it on the dyno, my boss did. But he is super conservative with his tuning, like CRAZY conservative. The chart I posted has been increased by myself on the road. He also does a ton of Hondata tuning, and carb tuning. He's not really familiar with mazda's, their limits, etc.
Maybe your boss knows something I don't but I'm also very conservative. I find MBT for each chosen load cell, then advance 3* further than MBT to find detonation, then back to the MBT point, and reduce 1*. If I find detonation, I reduce advance by 3*. Reducing spark any further than this does not increase safety and will probably make the engine run hot.

Tuning different makes should not alter his method...its not a black art.
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