Turbine housing question
Okay my new manifold is T3 based so my next turbo will have a T3 turbine housing, but in selecting turbine A/R, I had a question, hoping that someone out there has some input based on experience rather than just theoretical numbers as it is next to impossible to find a turbine map for a GT wheel inside a T3 housing. Info to follow:
I will be using a GT2871 turbo for my next setup, BUT I will be getting the T3 turbine housing option. So considering that the T3 turbine inlet is 136% greater than the T2 inlet (38mm x 49.3mm vs. 44.7mm x 57.2mm from Garrett catalog) and considering that the turbine wheel is the same regardless of selected housing, I was wondering if anyone had any comparisons between the different A/Rs T2 vs T3 housings. For example, I know that on Brad's ~1.7L his T25 0.64A/R turbine housing spools to ~15psi at 4400rpm based on his MS datalogs (with a boost leak no less) so I was wondering will the 0.48 A/R T3 housing be comparable or too small/restrictive or will the 0.63/0.64 T3 housing be about the same. FWIW, I'm shooting for ~325-350rwhp and would like the broadest powerband possible (aka early spool, relatively speaking) so if the 0.48A/R T3 housing would still make it to 350 and provide earlier spool, I'd opt for that, but if it's going to choke off the top end then I'd go bigger. Sure, I could just go with the 0.64A/R, but if the 0.48A/R can get me to my goal AND give me an extra 500+/- rpm of spool, then even better. Granted this may be mentally masturbating over a very small detail, but it's all about selecting the "right" turbo for your goals and the devil is in the details. |
how much are the turbine housings? maybe you can buy one and then later get the other housing.
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Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 232261)
how much are the turbine housings? maybe you can buy one and then later get the other housing.
Also forgot to mention, that the 0.48A/R option only comes on the 4-bolt T3 housing whereas the 0.64A/R option comes on both the 4/5 bolt housings. Not a big deal, but the 5-bolt leaves the T3/T4 replacement/upgrade/options open in terms of changing turbos later. :vash: |
From my reading, id go with the .64a/r, espically with a 2871, thats a somewhat small turbo.
Just FYI, my T3 has a .64 a/r houseing, and I get full boost (10 psi) at 3750 rpm in 3rd gear. |
I got your PM, and I don't have any hard data for you. My gut says to go with the larger housing, unless you are using an external wastegate, in which case a 40mm wastegate and the smaller housing could make it viable to make plenty of power while not constricting flow terribly. This is where a larger external wastegate and bring some balance to the equation.
Mark PS - the 38 mm external wastegate may flow enough as well. |
from what i can determine, the .86 a/r t25 housing is comparable to the .63 a/r t3 housing. both have max efficiency at 21 lb/min. that being assumed, the .63 a/r t25 housing and .48 a/r t/3 housings should be comparable as well at 16 lb/min. doing the math with a 1630cc motor and 8500k, that puts you at 14-15 lb/min of exhaust flow.....
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Originally Posted by brgracer
(Post 232262)
Yeah, I thought about that as well and new housings are ~$150-175 + shipping and then ceramic coating it is another ~$50 or so. Granted that's always an option but it's also an extra expense and effort that I'd prefer not to go thru.
Also forgot to mention, that the 0.48A/R option only comes on the 4-bolt T3 housing whereas the 0.64A/R option comes on both the 4/5 bolt housings. Not a big deal, but the 5-bolt leaves the T3/T4 replacement/upgrade/options open in terms of changing turbos later. :vash: |
is for t25 turbine (54mm vs 59mm). i assume ATP gets them machined specifically for such.
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I have an extra .48 housing with a big ol f'n crack in it, if you want to get the .63 and then want to try the .48 it is in good enough shape to run a while to see if you like it or not. It's standard 5 bolt.
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Are you going to track this car? If you are, go with the larger turbine because it should help reduce underhood temps a bit.
I intended to buy a t3s60 with the .63 turbine but the company I bought from was out of the .63 turbines so I had to go with the .48. I plan to "upgrade" to the .63 some day. |
If Tom can run his turbine at max efficiency without choking out, more power to him (figuratively speaking).
I run a .48 myself. My engine produced 13 lb/min of airflow volume out my exhaust at 7000RPM. no reason to rock turbine designed for max 21 lb/min when the .48 is maxed at 16 lb/min..... it's one of those compromises, while the .63 will probably produce more power per psi, it will spool slower coupled with his tubular manifold and produce a torque curve he doesn't want. If the .48 can satisfy his power goals and reduce the spool 500rpm, then again more power to him. |
Thanks for the offers and info. As for the 0.48 A/R only being offered in the 4 bolt T3 housing, that's the only way ATP offers that A/R for the 2871.
If I had a 1.8L, then without hesitation, I'd rock the 0.63/0.64 but considering the 200cc less displacement + longer runner tubular manifold + turbine flow estimates based on other T3 turbos, I think that the 0.48 will be better matched for my goals. From further research, I'm pretty sure a 0.48 A/R T3 turbine housing should flow very similar to the 0.64 A/R T28 turbine housing. So if Brad got 15psi at 4400rpm with the 0.64A/R T28 housing then I should be in a similar ballpark. Sure max power can be fun but so is spool/max boost before 5k rpm, regardless of redline. Granted if I was shooting for 375-400, then I would go larger, but my power goals are more modest. ;) |
If you are getting a mani made from scratch, to me it seems easier to get a standard T2 turbine, that way you know what the flow rates are or at least it would be less of a guess. Why go to a T3? If a .48 T3 flows like a .64 T2, they why not use the T2 and simplify things?
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Originally Posted by TurboTim
(Post 234797)
If you are getting a mani made from scratch, to me it seems easier to get a standard T2 turbine, that way you know what the flow rates are or at least it would be less of a guess. Why go to a T3? If a .48 T3 flows like a .64 T2, they why not use the T2 and simplify things?
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t3's are bomb....now its easier for him to upgrade to a 3076 or a t3/t4.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 234817)
t3's are bomb....now its easier for him to upgrade to a 3076 or a t3/t4.
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says mr two gt15s.
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why not just use a 60 trim or even a super 60?
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he's looking to make OVER 300rwhp...s60 would be reaching limits at 270-300rwhp.
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a 60-1 or sc61 would get him over 300rwhp wouldn't it? whatever term you want to call it anyway.
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