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TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T The Franken-Turbo Build
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This was my winter project. First a little backround. A while back I was researching kinda similar the EVO motor was to the one I built. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) builds a great turbo. Their OE and aftermarket products are well designed and supported. I ended up buying a low milage TD05HR off an EVO 8 MR. Here's some info I found:
Compressor: 68mm Inconel Alloy Flow Rates: 550cfm (@ 2:1 Pressure Ratio) 580cfm @ 15psi 40-42 lbs/min HP: 365-380 @ 22psi For comparison the Garrett 2560R, from what I could find flows @35 lbs/min. * "10.5" refers to the surface area of the turbine inlet nozzle in sq cm. ** (max HP capability is roughly lbs/min x 10) As usual I would take the above with a grain of salt. So basically I'm taking a turbo capable of about 300+ hp and putting in a car that weighs about 800 less. I bought the turbo for $350 off ebay. I found a guy on Craig's List who had an EVO 8 tublar manifold and 3" stainless exhaust for $325. These were made be XS Power. The tube thickness is 2.7mm. Not steam pipe, but not bad. The EVO and the BP4W are really close and I used 45 degree weld el's to complete the transition to the Miata head. Welded inside and out, then sanded inside for max flow. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 Next, I had to flip the flange the turbo bolts to 180 degrees so the down pipe went the right direction. And continue the twin scroll section (1&4 and 2&3). https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 Next I turned my OCD to porting and polishing the turbo. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 Did what I could on the compressor side. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 Opened the wastegate as much as possible for high pressure stability. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 I had to change the bracket for the wastegate because it was too close to the engine. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401348725 (stay tuned, more to come) |
Sweet, I'm also using a TD05H-18G from a Honda Prelude Greddy kit
What are you welding with I see Oxy/Ace in the picture? Assume you used it for very quick metal cutting? |
Different, but very cool, I like it.
Those evo turbo's are no joke when maxed out on the 4g63, so on a BP it should live a relatively easy life. They really like higher boost (20-25psi) |
I'm just worried you made the manifold no longer equal length so you wont be really getting the twin scroll benefit.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1135138)
I'm just worried you made the manifold no longer equal length so you wont be really getting the twin scroll benefit.
The oxy/acetylene was just used for heating bending stuff. I sources Haynes for the tig wire, it is inconel alloy. I felt it had better heat cycling characteristics and a lot tougher than 308-309. |
Cool. I'm a bit confused on the inconel wire with stainless tubes. You're not going to break at the weld joint if the joint it good, you're more likely to break in the HAZ.
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Ah that is smart! I have a oxy/ace rig but I only use it for cutting and heating a stubborn knuckle on a Dana 30 front axle. I did stick weld with it once just to see if I could its not pretty but it is possible.
My welding skills are not good, I have a 200amp arc, 180 amp MIG with gas and a 110 volt mig. I keep thinking I will take a welding class at the community college some winter and never have. |
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Next I moved on to hotside stuff. Had to relocate the O2 sensor bung.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 Attaching the V-band. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 The downpipe and new bung hole. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 With the 3" exhaust, there was more than enough material to make 95% of the whole system. Amazingly, the down pipe, bends past the trans, over the axel,etc was an easy puzzle to piece together. I wrapped the down pipe and most of the underside. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 Here's how I mounted the down pipe to the trans. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 The header was next. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 Here's over the axle and out the back. I had to buy the 90. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 The muffler is a Dynomax VT Before assembly I felt it necessary to add an additional support for the turbo. One side of the bracket bolts to the motor mount and the other off the turbo. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401418498 So with three different supports holding up the turbo/exhaust, I feel good about the support system. |
Nicely done, about damn time someone used a TS 16g
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Awesome, I have been waiting for your build thread to pop up after you commented on Struvo's thread. Your turbine housing has a different wastegate exit design than mine does is that from the different model variants (RS/GSR/MR)?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401428509 |
I will be interested to see both this working AND your review of the dynomax VT muffler. I've thought that that VT would be a great muffler, but I have never heard of one on a miata.
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Hi Reggie, This one is considered the last version ("8.5") before they went to the EVO 9. It came off a MR. There is debate about the 9 being any better than the 8.5. Physically the compressor 8.5 is similar to the 2560, whereas the 9 is noticeably bigger than the 8.5. I have all kinds of pics of the two, but for me the MHI cold side is a better design and flows more air. The 2560 is a great turbo, but when you go built, you can use more air flow at the top.
There is no question that the EFR's are the bench mark for our cars, but I didn't understand why you didn't see more people choosing MHI products. There's a lot of models to choose from, easy to rebuild, well supported from the aftermarket community. The VT muffler is great at idle, not drone-y at cruze. People out side the car says it sounds fine at full throttle. From the drivers seat I could personally do with a more aggressive note. We'll have to work on that...... -JB |
Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz
(Post 1135413)
Hi Reggie, This one is considered the last version ("8.5") before they went to the EVO 9. It came off a MR. There is debate about the 9 being any better than the 8.5. Physically the compressor 8.5 is similar to the 2560, whereas the 9 is noticeably bigger than the 8.5. I have all kinds of pics of the two, but for me the MHI cold side is a better design and flows more air. The 2560 is a great turbo, but when you go built, you can use more air flow at the top.
There is no question that the EFR's are the bench mark for our cars, but I didn't understand why you didn't see more people choosing MHI products. There's a lot of models to choose from, easy to rebuild, well supported from the aftermarket community. The VT muffler is great at idle, not drone-y at cruze. People out side the car says it sounds fine at full throttle. From the drivers seat I could personally do with a more aggressive note. We'll have to work on that...... -JB |
I agree, I like bb turbos too. The trade off for me was (maybe) @350rpms (which I hope to get back with some EBC). I don't remember the cost of having a Garrett cartridge replaced. I'm sure at this point there are companys doing 16G ceramic bb rebuilds.
The point of this for me was to take another well designed/supported platform and apply it to our engines. If there were 50 people who had done this already and said it sucked then I would have thought differently about this. You can count on one hand the number of people using 16G's on this forum and nobody's doing it the way I am. I'll try to get some spool up data soon. Also if any Chicagoland guys want to meet with Vitural Dyno (my phone is apparently not smart enough) the beers are on me. -JB |
Lol. Not boost threshold, throttle response.
And you can do VD with a log from your MS. |
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LOL
Six degrees of mt.net I believe I'm the guy that ended up with your wheels. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401516770 Still a few things to do. Set the wastegate (14lbs) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401516770 All the hardware is inconel (woo-hoo), a little Resbond before assembly. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401516770 I used this for the drain back to the pan. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401516770 I still had to fab up the intercooler outlet off the turbo. I got super lucky and found the coolant outlet was exactly the right diameter and bolt pattern. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401516770 |
This is cool to see, I'm using the EVO3 16G but with a custom exhaust housing so it bolts up to all the MSM stuff. It seems really responsive but I am purposely declining all offers to drive EFR equipped cars! :)
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Looks tidy!
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I'm confused at what your IC routing is.
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The original owner of the car had the Fly'in Miata kit on it. So the intercooler tubing kinda goes all over the place.:loser:
One of the winter projects is an upgrade. Although the car is running extremely well right now, I have an opportunity to be probably the first Miata to run the new AEM Infinity ecu. I am excited about the level of control and potential adjustability this thing has. |
Looks good!
Were you talking to me about wheels? You got them from Cameron? If so, then yes. :rofl: |
yeah they were Cameron's. Did you find the tread pattern kinda loud?
There won't much tire left soon. It kinda like: 1st- accelerate - tire slippage to redline -shift 2nd- accelerate - tire slippage to redline - shift :skid: 3rd- a little slippage - it hooks up - Star Trek effect of going to warp! 4th- more Star Trek - neck and brain hurt - can't wipe smile off face. :cool: |
Nah, i actually really liked those tires for a street car. Pretty quiet.
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I am very interested to see the Infinity working on a miata. Are you doing the install yourself? What model of Infinity?
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Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz
(Post 1135933)
I have an opportunity to be probably the first Miata to run the new AEM Infinity ecu. I am excited about the level of control and potential adjustability this thing has.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1136040)
Hopefully you're not getting suckered in on hopes, dreams, and marketing. Every single AEM product looks way better on paper than it does in actual use.
I took the car out for a drive and got some spool data. I was worried about cops and didn't know I wasn't at WOT, lol. |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1136040)
Hopefully you're not getting suckered in on hopes, dreams, and marketing. Every single AEM product looks way better on paper than it does in actual use.
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Originally Posted by guttedmiata
(Post 1137052)
Multi time CSP Solo2 national champ car runs an AEM.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1137090)
Multi time NHRA national champions still use carburetors too.
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Originally Posted by guttedmiata
(Post 1137378)
and......?
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1137380)
Just because you can win with a certain tuning device doesnt make it good.
Using a product to win multiple national championships makes it bad for actual use :bang: |
Originally Posted by guttedmiata
(Post 1137384)
Oh I see your point now....
Using a product to win multiple national championships makes it bad for actual use :bang: |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1137385)
Sure does, my AEM isnt making my car any faster or slower at auto-x compared to an MS, Haltech, Motec, or Bosch, just more annoying to tune.
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Jeff, Any changes to this car since your last update? Did you ever get virtualdyno numbers? Can you do a log of your pull? I have VD on my computer if you send me the log.
Also, looking forward to seeing it again at the dyno day. Can you bring your laptop so we can see what the AEM software looks like? Have you ever done any dyno tuning? I spent a couple hundred bucks getting a baseline on my car (at different boost levels) and felt it was a worthwhile investment. |
Just checked back in this thread, nice progress, as for BB turbos, lots of companies make BB upgraded versions of the evo 9 turbo, I have one on my daily driver, its made by CBRD.
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Originally Posted by greddygalant
(Post 1172764)
Just checked back in this thread, nice progress, as for BB turbos, lots of companies make BB upgraded versions of the evo 9 turbo, I have one on my daily driver, its made by CBRD.
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I am still running this same turbo since the original posting in 2014. Still runs great, I've put about 10k on the motor. Spool is still right-fucking-now dispite my foot dragging on going to a 4 port boost control (Hallman manual controller). I had a crack in the collector part of the manifold about a year and a half ago I think due to improper use of solar flux. Repaired with proper purge gas. I currently fitted a DSM 1G manifold as a fabrication challenge from an idea I had a few years ago. Good luck with your project. Current pic.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...40c7cfce30.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...82e8f1e3cd.jpg |
2manyhobyz - Do you have any dyno plots or logs for the twin scroll TD05 you can share as I have access to one and may use it on a build.
Many thanks |
Sorry to bring back from the dead.. were you able to keep power steering with this setup?
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Sorry, I'm hoping to get on the dyno this spring. Mild tune netted 276whp. Changed a few things since then. You will really like the spool, very linear, pulls like a V-8. I am on an AEM Infinity so tune wise your on your own. I did the ps delete, depowered rack. I am thinking about adapting the electric power steering from a Prius.
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Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz
(Post 1590961)
Sorry, I'm hoping to get on the dyno this spring. Mild tune netted 276whp. Changed a few things since then. You will really like the spool, very linear, pulls like a V-8. I am on an AEM Infinity so tune wise your on your own. I did the ps delete, depowered rack. I am thinking about adapting the electric power steering from a Prius.
TIA! |
At this point it's an old thread. Due for an update this spring.
title is "Down the rabbit hole" |
Are there any other build threads you could point to that have similar mounting of the ignition coils or is that your own take on mounting? Did you go with lower gauge wires to overcome impedance due to being longer? Looks sweet, first I’ve noticed one like it.
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Originally Posted by 6monther
(Post 1591289)
Are there any other build threads you could point to that have similar mounting of the ignition coils or is that your own take on mounting? Did you go with lower gauge wires to overcome impedance due to being longer? Looks sweet, first I’ve noticed one like it.
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