TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T The Franken-Turbo Build - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-29-2014, 04:32 AM   #1
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Default TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T The Franken-Turbo Build

This was my winter project. First a little backround. A while back I was researching kinda similar the EVO motor was to the one I built. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) builds a great turbo. Their OE and aftermarket products are well designed and supported. I ended up buying a low milage TD05HR off an EVO 8 MR. Here's some info I found:
Compressor: 68mm Inconel Alloy
Flow Rates: 550cfm (@ 2:1 Pressure Ratio)
580cfm @ 15psi
40-42 lbs/min
HP: 365-380 @ 22psi
For comparison the Garrett 2560R, from what I could find flows @35 lbs/min.

* "10.5" refers to the surface area of the turbine inlet nozzle in sq cm.
** (max HP capability is roughly lbs/min x 10)
As usual I would take the above with a grain of salt. So basically I'm taking a turbo capable of about 300+ hp and putting in a car that weighs about 800 less.

I bought the turbo for $350 off ebay.
I found a guy on Craig's List who had an EVO 8 tublar manifold and 3" stainless exhaust for $325. These were made be XS Power. The tube thickness is 2.7mm. Not steam pipe, but not bad.

The EVO and the BP4W are really close and I used 45 degree weld el's to complete the transition to the Miata head. Welded inside and out, then sanded inside for max flow.



Next, I had to flip the flange the turbo bolts to 180 degrees so the down pipe went the right direction. And continue the twin scroll section (1&4 and 2&3).




Next I turned my OCD to porting and polishing the turbo.



Did what I could on the compressor side.



Opened the wastegate as much as possible for high pressure stability.

I had to change the bracket for the wastegate because it was too close to the engine.

(stay tuned, more to come)
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:44 AM   #2
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Sweet, I'm also using a TD05H-18G from a Honda Prelude Greddy kit

What are you welding with I see Oxy/Ace in the picture? Assume you used it for very quick metal cutting?
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:15 AM   #3
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Different, but very cool, I like it.
Those evo turbo's are no joke when maxed out on the 4g63, so on a BP it should live a relatively easy life.
They really like higher boost (20-25psi)
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:05 AM   #4
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I'm just worried you made the manifold no longer equal length so you wont be really getting the twin scroll benefit.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I'm just worried you made the manifold no longer equal length so you wont be really getting the twin scroll benefit.
You have a point, the 45's are pretty close to the same. I would say the transition section for 1-4 has slightly more volume than 2-3. Spool up in fifth with the taller 3.63 is about 5psi at 2600, but ramps up very quickly so you get a very usable power band from 3k to redline. I'm using a Hallman for boost control. Once I switch back to EBC I'll gain a little more, but honestly the torque transition comes up super nice.

The oxy/acetylene was just used for heating bending stuff. I sources Haynes for the tig wire, it is inconel alloy. I felt it had better heat cycling characteristics and a lot tougher than 308-309.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:59 PM   #6
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Cool. I'm a bit confused on the inconel wire with stainless tubes. You're not going to break at the weld joint if the joint it good, you're more likely to break in the HAZ.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:25 PM   #7
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Ah that is smart! I have a oxy/ace rig but I only use it for cutting and heating a stubborn knuckle on a Dana 30 front axle. I did stick weld with it once just to see if I could its not pretty but it is possible.

My welding skills are not good, I have a 200amp arc, 180 amp MIG with gas and a 110 volt mig.

I keep thinking I will take a welding class at the community college some winter and never have.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:54 PM   #8
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Next I moved on to hotside stuff. Had to relocate the O2 sensor bung.

Attaching the V-band.


The downpipe and new bung hole.

With the 3" exhaust, there was more than enough material to make 95% of the whole system. Amazingly, the down pipe, bends past the trans, over the axel,etc was an easy puzzle to piece together. I wrapped the down pipe and most of the underside.

Here's how I mounted the down pipe to the trans.



The header was next.


Here's over the axle and out the back. I had to buy the 90.


The muffler is a Dynomax VT
Before assembly I felt it necessary to add an additional support for the turbo. One side of the bracket bolts to the motor mount and the other off the turbo.


So with three different supports holding up the turbo/exhaust, I feel good about the support system.
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:06 AM   #9
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Nicely done, about damn time someone used a TS 16g
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Old 05-30-2014, 02:41 AM   #10
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Awesome, I have been waiting for your build thread to pop up after you commented on Struvo's thread. Your turbine housing has a different wastegate exit design than mine does is that from the different model variants (RS/GSR/MR)?
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:46 AM   #11
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I will be interested to see both this working AND your review of the dynomax VT muffler. I've thought that that VT would be a great muffler, but I have never heard of one on a miata.
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:47 PM   #12
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Hi Reggie, This one is considered the last version ("8.5") before they went to the EVO 9. It came off a MR. There is debate about the 9 being any better than the 8.5. Physically the compressor 8.5 is similar to the 2560, whereas the 9 is noticeably bigger than the 8.5. I have all kinds of pics of the two, but for me the MHI cold side is a better design and flows more air. The 2560 is a great turbo, but when you go built, you can use more air flow at the top.
There is no question that the EFR's are the bench mark for our cars, but I didn't understand why you didn't see more people choosing MHI products. There's a lot of models to choose from, easy to rebuild, well supported from the aftermarket community.

The VT muffler is great at idle, not drone-y at cruze. People out side the car says it sounds fine at full throttle. From the drivers seat I could personally do with a more aggressive note. We'll have to work on that......
-JB
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyhobyz View Post
Hi Reggie, This one is considered the last version ("8.5") before they went to the EVO 9. It came off a MR. There is debate about the 9 being any better than the 8.5. Physically the compressor 8.5 is similar to the 2560, whereas the 9 is noticeably bigger than the 8.5. I have all kinds of pics of the two, but for me the MHI cold side is a better design and flows more air. The 2560 is a great turbo, but when you go built, you can use more air flow at the top.
There is no question that the EFR's are the bench mark for our cars, but I didn't understand why you didn't see more people choosing MHI products. There's a lot of models to choose from, easy to rebuild, well supported from the aftermarket community.

The VT muffler is great at idle, not drone-y at cruze. People out side the car says it sounds fine at full throttle. From the drivers seat I could personally do with a more aggressive note. We'll have to work on that......
-JB
Mitsu doesnt make very many BB turbos, even though their compressor and turbine wheels are better than garretts. We here in the miata world like BB turbos.
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:43 PM   #14
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I agree, I like bb turbos too. The trade off for me was (maybe) @350rpms (which I hope to get back with some EBC). I don't remember the cost of having a Garrett cartridge replaced. I'm sure at this point there are companys doing 16G ceramic bb rebuilds.
The point of this for me was to take another well designed/supported platform and apply it to our engines. If there were 50 people who had done this already and said it sucked then I would have thought differently about this. You can count on one hand the number of people using 16G's on this forum and nobody's doing it the way I am.
I'll try to get some spool up data soon. Also if any Chicagoland guys want to meet with Vitural Dyno (my phone is apparently not smart enough) the beers are on me.
-JB
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:46 PM   #15
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Lol. Not boost threshold, throttle response.

And you can do VD with a log from your MS.
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Old 05-30-2014, 02:31 PM   #16
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:12 AM   #17
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LOL
Six degrees of mt.net
I believe I'm the guy that ended up with your wheels.


Still a few things to do.
Set the wastegate (14lbs)

All the hardware is inconel (woo-hoo), a little Resbond before assembly.

I used this for the drain back to the pan.

I still had to fab up the intercooler outlet off the turbo. I got super lucky and found the coolant outlet was exactly the right diameter and bolt pattern.
Attached Thumbnails
TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T  The Franken-Turbo Build-p1020450_zps7483e331.jpg   TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T  The Franken-Turbo Build-p1020026_zps62d76cbb.jpg   TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T  The Franken-Turbo Build-p1020079_zpsec1acc84.jpg   TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T  The Franken-Turbo Build-p1020063_zps71f1339d.jpg   TWIN SCROLL TD05HR-16G6-10.5T  The Franken-Turbo Build-p1020057_zps2d5a1931.jpg  

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Old 05-31-2014, 08:38 AM   #18
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This is cool to see, I'm using the EVO3 16G but with a custom exhaust housing so it bolts up to all the MSM stuff. It seems really responsive but I am purposely declining all offers to drive EFR equipped cars!
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:12 AM   #19
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Final assembly pics.







Attached Thumbnails
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:10 AM   #20
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Looks tidy!
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