Twin Turbo Build Thread
 

I know, I know, Mad weak sauce torque curve right? rofl, yeah unless you use ej20 IHI ball bearing turbos!!! I'm about to start the fab, so far I'm tossing my pics of what I currently have. I'll put the drawings up etc and keep posting the progress!

I'm also going to run twin Greddy Type S BOVs!!! Slash off some of the metal on my xtra fly wheel, and my god do I need a horn button for my momo course : (

lol, I also picked up a nardi knob and eb handle!!! Had to sand and refinish the handle but I'm friggin excited over the details. And hell I'm even happy about the old scuff plates I dug up!

The best part is I got most of this stuff at a yard sale? A guy wrecked his M, and had shelves of parts, it was like a dream.

If you guys have any suggestions feel free to throw down ^_^

I see you're a fan of the macro mode.

Welcome. Curious to see how your project pans out.

Do some searching, the twin turbo thing has been done. Do yourself a favor, throw those ksports in the trash.

Yeah I've seen some cats primarily role with the stock rx7 turbos... But there torque was a little late in the game. I'll post the turbo map for the IHI set up tomorrow, and if I run a semi sequential by only cutting say 30% flow through the secondary I may be able to help the low end even more. "I'm going to have to research the hell out of that though because I can't let that turbo backspool!" If any body has an Idea about that too it would be soweet!

lol, yeah I was sporting my 50mm 1.4 really saps the dof, got every prime Nikkor - the 200mm fixed 2.8 "chances are I'll nab it soon!"

I've seen you around town once or twice. Should be interesting to see how your project goes.

Is that a 99-00 head I see? The manifold looks like it, but i could be wrong. If it is you can always use my engine as a reference, although my job wasn't the best 99-00 headswap haha.

have you seen TurboTim's setup?

Yes, looks sweet, I'd like to see pics of it, but I couldn't find any when I dug around. If you know where I can chek it out please ping me! I'm hoping to do a little better on my torque curve though ^_^

Don't tell me you're going go to through all that effort and use that retarded bandaid.

there are pictures, video's, and threads. the search function as well as google is your friend.
and if you plan on doing a twin turbo setup and use bandaids instead of a good ems go end yourself now.


One other thing I wanted to mention: I'm always the guy all for "unique" builds and trying to do things differently. Trying new ways to make more power/be faster etc etc etc. But when there are plenty of turbo's out there that will be able to spool instantly as well as put down good power, as well as ones that would be a little laggy but make humongous power why waste all this effort on something that wont do either one thing perfectly? Even with small ball bearing units you still wont have the response of a v8. With the units being as small as they are you still wont make big power. Why not just do a v8 swap: instant throttle response AND big power? Seems like it would be the best solution for someone like yourself.

interesting.

Albumleaf, Don't be that guy...

Oh, yeah
 

Railz you kick ass for building your shit, I'm going to run supra injectors too! Oh, and I forgot to mention, My boss motor runs on points. "I like bandaids you guys are just pissed cause mine are ninja friggin turtle"

Who let Hyper back on the site?

No but seriously, a bunch of shitty piggybacks?


I'm also curious, why do we want to see a macro image of: a flywheel surface, a harddog label, a shock adjustment knob, door sills, a wood brake level, shock mounts, etc. (got tired of typing it out).

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with Tim's torque curve utilizing two GT1554s.

http://boostedmiata.com/dyno_day_pic...m_turbotim.jpg



I also don't think there is anything inherently wrong with most single GT2560 setups as far as torque is concerned.

we are all that guy. piggybacks = false economy

like big pictures much?

First off, good luck. My twin turbo build thread was deleted by the previous asshat administrator. Parallel turbos have been done before, I wasn't the first either. I think I'm the only one that's still around though, and putting down respectable numbers (I think the other one used two volvo turbos and put down something like 220hp at 15psi). I think I packaged everything pretty well too, pretty symmetric and clearing A/C & P/S. I've never gotten around to doing something pretty with the airfilters though, but my IAT's are low anyway.

I currently use two GT1548's, the older setup was two GT1544's. My torque curve sucks comparied to single turbo setups i've built. I built it only for a fabrication excercise and to "be different". For much less effort and money you could build yourself something that performs better.

Or you could buy my TT setup for the right price, it's coming off this week so I can test my newest single turbo manifold & downpipe.

I still want to do a sequential setup some day. I have a few things modeled and am certain it could work. I think a V8 swap would be a better use of currently my limited budget...shit i could build a nice 5.0 with just the price of a new 2871 & 2554. Maybe someday someone with enough money will want me to build them a sequential.

nice dampers, lol.

Thats not even Tim's newest torque curve. He's at 234 now. Tim is the blue line:
http://www.miatamx5.com/dynoruns/11-15-08/top3_tq.jpg

And his hp graph is nice too. 287hp
http://www.miatamx5.com/dynoruns/11-15-08/top3_hp.jpg

Go with MS, you won't regret it. You can build one on the cheap too.

Oh yeah I dig MS hardcore, still low on the bank though. I plan on roughing out the build with what I currently have and after my hotrod sells I'll make friends with solder and my iron. Don't get me wrong I'm with you that stand alone is the ideal solution, what I don't understand is everyone being so harsh towards running what ya got until you get what you need? I'm not saying by any means that my old msd box/rpm control is great, but its a lot better than a static 6 or 8 degrees retard. I'd like to check out your MS wiring a little more next time every one meets up. I remembering you saying it was a pnp and it would help me to see where everything is running to etc. Oh, and I wish the head was a 00, but alas it's a 96. It will flow much better when I'm done with it though, + the diy cam swap etc.

Yeah my PnP is pretty simple. N3V has a custom built MS and he's local also, ill drag him out to one of the meets they have around here. He also did the exintake cam mod like your wanting to do. Im wanting to try it on my 99-00 head, just gota find the cam.

Cool to see someone trying something different. Definitely interested in how this all turns out.

dynojet, lol.

What the hell is wrong with you?

Post the compressor maps here.

What a waste.

Id like to translate hustler's trollan for you Tim:

"hehehe I trol u."

There ya go

Also, twin turbos are for queers. >:3

I thought the ej20 WRX's had the mitsu td04 turbo.

Supposed USDM 2liter WRX TD04 compressor map attached.

I'm interested.

So true. But hey maybe this guy likes misery.

I have no idea what trollan is.

compressor map
 

Tim, just the man I wanted to see lol, I new I was gonna get flamed when I posted this thread, but hey why not ehh? Any suggestions? "RHF4" EJ20 tt I think 1993?

I didn't get flamed for my TT's because I waited to post until after I finished it and it was running well. You get more respect that way because the chances of you getting something that runs well is slim.

I see what turbos you are running now. I looked into the OEM Subaru sequential TT setup from the early 90's as a swap for my '97 outback at one point. They are all over ebay for cheap. I don't know about what turbos they are or if they are an ok size. I do know the subaru sequential parts (choking off most of the flow to one turbo until some point, etc) don't work very reliably, plus you have to find room for the valves & other hardware. In my opinion for a sequential I would run a small turbo early and a large turbo late, like the new deisels.

Which is why they went to a single TD05 and then a single TD04 (see map above), which is an excellent match for the 1.6 miata as I have found out.


Blocking off the second turbo should be fairly simple (haha) using an external wastegate BEFORE the second turbo, and some kind of pressure source to trigger it at an RPM setpoint.


The simplest way would be to use manifold pressure as a trigger to open the wastegate.

So the sequence would be:

RPM/Boost/Wastegate condition

1000/0/Closed
1250/1/Closed
1500/5/Closed
2000/10/Open
2250/6/Open <-----Only disadvantage I see from this simple setup, boost will drop as the wastegate opens and the second turbo starts spooling up.
2500/8/Open
3000/10/Open
3500/10/Open


And so on....

In either case this whole clusterfuck would be a hell of a lot easier to achieve with an aftermarket ECU.

Wanna race when you're done, Wrecking_Crew? My "crude" single Subaru setup vs. your sophisticated twin turbo setup?

Exactly.

The restriction to turbo #2 flow caused by the EWG before it would make turbo #2 have less power/energy supplied to it (unless maybe if you use one of those big mofo 60mm EWG's, add like $600 to teh cost for one of those). I would worry about turbo #1 which is already spooled out flowing turbo #2, causing some sort of imbalance. You'd have to also block off the intake/pressure side of turbo #2 until it spools and makes the same pressure as what turbo #1 is already producing or else I'd think the positive boost pressure would go the wrong way thru turbo #2's compressor, possibly spinning it backwards. Not good, especially if the #2 turbine is underpowered.

This should discourage him enough to stop the build effective now. :giggle:

Grins
 

Thanks Tim, I'm going to start with just log man and spooling the turbines together, then move to sequential afterwords. Currently I'm sourcing a few parts from a supra, primarily the LACV and the EGCV, they will be controlled via vacuum actuators. I though about a compound system and have read through an untold amount of the diesel kid forums, I'll probly do that set up in my friends 63 econoline, 300 6 etc.

lol, I take it you've never buried a crank before... And why would a couple vacuum actuated valves not make me want to toy with a seq setup?

1939 Nash, 4 bolt Boss, Offset ground turned under 4ma high nodge crank, shortened forged rods, forged flat tops, high eccentricity trymetal clevites, aussie 2v quench heads "port matched," machined canted pedestals comp screw in studs "by hand," comp guide plates, comp forged pushrods, harland sharp 1.6 ratio ex, 1.73 in, single groove stainless valves, dual v springs, 530l 280d comp cam, dual quad aussie 2v weind tram "circa 73 very rare" ARP this that and the other, list goes on and on. "8,000 redline 6L 11.7:1 " I need a taller cam but the 530 will hold me over for now. Oh, and then I drive that little miata every once in a while lmao

This should be fun to watch.

I don't know what a LACV or a EGCV is.

I don't know what that means either

only reason I can think is that controlling them accurately to make it daily driveable may be difficult. Then again, the definition of "driveable" differs from person to person.

This doesn't mean much to this crowd. I only notice you didn't use Jesel so you fail. ;)

Buried a crank? And are you suggesting that because you have built one fast car, that this one will succeed the way you've explained?

lol
 

Hmmm, no not by any means, I just think its funny that a few people are up in arms over this. I've got a few parts and I'm going to have some fun toying with building a little turbo set up. I'm no master and I don't pretend to be, I would hope that you would interpret that I come from a world where we don't buy bolt ons unless we have to. Hand build most anything and enjoy it just like most people do. English wheel for the win, right up there with all the rest.

Also my rod isn't fast , its only around five or six hundred hp so its almost quick. I don't want to have to run alch or 130 ack, but I'm like the rest out there just having fun with a little roadster. Just seems like people want to flame every one else instead of giving constructive advice?

Burying a crank, "history lesson..." back in oh, well before we could buy headers they would bury the internals because constant temp stress relieves the metals. 9 months later your crank etc. is born to a happy family : )

Dude, get this. None of this is remotely relevant to what you're attempting.

As to my credentials, I doubt any of that is relevant either. Even though my profession is about as close to cars and racing as the average car enthusiast ever gets.

... Your joking right?

And tim's right I fail for going with harlands lol, nothing like the elchipo rockers. I need a roller cam too, but hey use what ya got! Also Tim, how did you go about doing your set up? Is it sequential, I rem the fist time I saw that vid, I was like sweeet.

How about this, you post up once it is actually finished and have it running, otherwise you are just blowing smoke!!

Rodger Dodger ^_-

I'll run a new thread when I'm done with the manifold/turbos/bovs bolted on to my xtra head for mock up.

Still would like any input from Tim though considering hes done this successfully!

:facepalm::youwish:

More power to you if you can pull this off. Common sense says you cant, cause I have a feeling you're actually a retarded teenager trying to act as if you've been doing this for years.

Looks like I hit a nerve? I guess you could say I've been building cars since I was a kid, so maybe around 15 or so years, you know drag racing, road racing, a little SCCA, some sport driving, maybe spending some time working on that old 9.3l 460 stroker, or that cute little tt 350z, I'd rather work on the 50 fleetline though, after all who doesn't love a mighty mouse ehh? "Turns around looks at full G-force fire suit hanging in closet..."

But seriously I'd love for you to explain to me, "in detail," how engine building has nothing to do with fabricating a little forced induction set up? Granted we are now straying from actually getting things done, gathering info, sharing ideas, and exp, to a flame/pissing contest? If it makes you feel a better go for it... I personally would you rather not waste my time :jerkit:

http://www.dvdbreakdown.com/pix/13_d...ges/willow.jpg

Crew, this isn't being flamed. More progress pics and less HD sticker pics will help your cause.

Chris

Put up or join Kurt Rohmer.

Hay guise lets start a flame war lol

They see me trollan...they hatin...

never heard anyone call it "trollan".

Love to see more pics of this build.

I tried to share my ideas, look at my posts above on using the wastegate. But you apparently know everything about turbocharging since you built a 1939 Nash from the ground up. :noob:

EDIT: Werent you the one wanting to use an exhaust cutout for the same purpose? Posted on miata.net a while ago?

Damn guys, lighten up. This guy is obviously not one of the common noobs we get here. I say give the guy some credit and time to see what he comes up with.

Wreck, some of the guys on here are super insecure and need to e-thug to make it through the day. Dont let em get you!

I thought this was a build thread :confused:

credit market is dry. we need collateral.

collateral damage? that movie made me laugh.

lol, of course that was me, however I trashed that idea based on gear drive issues + parts are available right off a supra. And your idea was bad at all, but I'm not starting with sequential, I just tossed the idea out there for only cutting off part of the exhaust flow from the secondary to play around with building boost. There would be a limit however on how much based on the pressure in the charge pipe, so on. I haven't done the math on it yet so its still, "just an idea." After I get the mani tacked up on Saturday I'll post a couple more bits up, I am going to run the twin Greddy bov + an oil cooler in line to the oil feed for the turbos. I'm waiting on the oil filter bypass adapter from summit though, should ship by the first of the month, "out of stock for the lose."

The parts I was talking about earlier for the valving are the, Exhaust Gas Control Valve, "EGCV," and the Intake Air Control Valve, "IACV." Both of these are rather easy to source and are operated by vacuum actuators. It's actually kinda simple, check out the diagram.

And it's all controlled by some ECM. Go for it.


Thanks for the trollan definition!


There are worse rockers than Harland's so don't sweat it. My twins are plumbed in parallel.