Unsure if I should keep 2560 or go to a 2871
 

In my search to replace my 2560 I keep finding 2860R and RS's as well as 2871's. I've been reading up on the bigger turbos and it keeps bugging me that I think I should go that route.

It would be on my stock vvt motor with 3" and no cat and a begi log manifold and SGDP.

I do highway 5 days a week and some rare in town driving. Most roads are quite open here.
I don't want lots of lag but do want a nice ceiling and like everyone and their dog says I hope to go to a built engine one day.

I'd love to eventually have a 300whp car. But maybe 280 is fine, thus the dilemma, will I be fine with a 2560 for the next long while?

Has anyone regretted say going from a 2560 to a 2871?

I guess I haven't made up my mind. Who can write poetry and describe the driving experience so well it's like I'm on a test drive? No steamy harlequin stuff "as he shifted into 3rd my loins became alive with excitement......."

why are you replacing the 2560?

Failing bearings

china or genuine 2560?

Genuine - actually mine is doing what yours was some time ago, we talked about it on the thread where you mentioned your failing CHRA.

Chinese parts - as if, I only run genuine items, like an unknown IC and coilovers made under strict tolerances from the Land of Race........

No regrets here. Maybe it sounds stupid, but I actually prefer the spool characteristics of the 2871 to the 2560. It annoyed me that anytime I tried to accelerate the least little bit I'd be at 10psi and subsequently boving like a 17 year old kid in an srt4.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_743347_4.htm

Here are the specs of a 2871 I was looking at:

Comp.
Ind Exd Trim A/R
53.1mm 71.0mm 56 0.60

Turbine
Wh Dia Trim A/R
53.9mm 76 0.64

I'm still learning my trim and inducer numbers and how they influence spool so I need help here. The -4 is one of the larger 2871's as far as I can tell. Looks like there are 8 part numnbers for 2871's !!

My option is replace the 2560 and sell it once I go over 12 psi with a built engine and at that time go bigger on the turbo. I may lose a bit of money on the future larger turbo swap but not much, but perhaps I'd be happier now as I'm staying in safe boost levels for the stock motor and I may not be utilizing what a 2871 was really intended for.

Although I don't have the genuine Garrett 2871 and have the chinacharger that BEGi sells. I do like the spool characterstics too of the 2871. It could be annoying short shifting at 4k rpm and be close to max boost. Spool comes hard after 5k rpm and I like it.

Tell me where you found a GT2860RS 0.64a/r cheap.

I didn't say cheap, but I definately wont be paying retail if I can help it. Cheapest new CHRA for a 2560 is $495, entire new turbo is $720 and at those prices you are close to a very lighly used 2860/71

I like tubular manifolds with the bigger turbos but for what you want a GT2860rs is a prime candidate too, speaking from experience. I've had a few different turbo cars with a few different turbos and the 2860rs with a tubular manifold is sweet.

Is this a common failure for the 2560? I'm trying to source one now...but for my HP goals a disco potatoe is sort of over-kill, although for track duty running lower outlet temps with lower boost could be beneficial

I was all ready to buy one (2860RS Ext. WG and BEGI tubular) with deposit in place but it didn't work out. The manifold could not be repaired by BEGI. I was getting pretty excited and now I feel bad for user pschmidt as he is stuck with a mani and DP combo that has no other use. He was great to deal with and over the last few weeks I have been salivating about a larger turbo and the accompanying tubular manifold. When I got the bad news from him about the unrepairable mani I was still stuck on the larger turbo's.

I'd say it's very very rare for a ball bearing Garrett to fail unless it's not getting oil and water but I've only been following turbo's for a year and a bit.

Mine still boosts but it boosts so slow you can hit a 3rd gear corner (on the streets) full throttle and by the time your halfway down the straight your at 12 psi......ha

No, it's not rare. It's COMMON. There have been a whole bunch of Garrett failiures here even from people posting in this thread. Look around at other car forums and ebay and you will find a shitton of blown garrett BB CHRAs. Garrett ball bearing turbos SUCK. Why the fuck would you buy another one. Get a different brand.

:eek4:

I appreciate hearing from the other side of the Garrett fence. What do you like and why compared to Garrett?

BTW -Telling someone something sucks without providing some learning or further information is not very useful, but I'm sure you were just about to elaborate.
My issue is that used Garretts are out there for a decent price, but if I can find something with great value in another brand I would consider it.

Here.

Blown Garretts.


I bought a Borg Warner. Better because rebuilding doesn't cost $500. It costs $100.

^^^^ What Min said, people need to get off the Garrett high horse and see what other cars are running with great success. Precisions, Borgwarners both ring a bell...

I'm just barely learning GT part numbers.


Whats an equiv. borg part number to a Garret 2560 or larger 2860/71 R/RS ?

Precision uses Garrett BB CHRAs. High failiure rate for precisions too beacuse of this.


Look at the compressor and turbine wheel measurements to compare. Also look at the turbine housing size.

Here's Borg's 2011 catalog.
http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf...alog_SMALL.pdf

To convert inches to mm use google e.g., 3 inches in mm

I must be doing something wrong. My Garrett 2876R has about 60,000 miles on it.

Blown Garretts.

my garrett only blows boost into the motor.

it still spins for a long time after shutting off the car.

so...

blow y8s?

Lets be real, ALL turbos fail at some point, its the nature of the beast, esp in high HP applications. THe GT2560 is an OEM turbo and has seen plenty of cars that push past 60k

UHH... is your BW ball-bearing? I've rebuilt Garrett's for about $80, but they were journal bearing. Unless you know something I don't...

It's not apples to apples. Kinda like: "I can buy a miata for $2000! Why the fuck would I drop 200K on a Ferrari?!"

Yeah and the aftermarket garrett bbsfail a shit ton. Read the damn link I posted.

No my BW is journal and my garrett is BB. Yes, journal garretts can be rebuilt for cheap.


Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts
Blown Garretts

Also look on ebay and again, blown garrett BB turbos FS are common there.

0 results found for blown garrett, Used

wonder how many blow from user fail

Back to the core.

Has anyone regretted going to a 2871 or similar and or can let me know what they like / dislike about their large Garrett?

Maps are great but I also like first hand reviews.

I am also jumping the Garrett ship.

I'm not okay with depending on garrett GT turbos to work with my current hotside. The price/performance arrangement is not worth it at all, not even close. T3 is much more liberating, Hoslet, Borg Warner and other diesel turbos from now on for me.

Garrett is not even close to being at the top of the turbo food chain anymore.

EDIT: back on topic. Savington loves his 2871. Lots of people are fine using larger garrett GT turbos. But it doesn't hurt to look at what else is out there on the market.

Some of the cars I've driven/ridin'/owned have used a wide range of Garrett turbos. I've driven cars with the T25G, GT2554, GTiR 2560, GT2560, Disco 'tater and a 2871 .64 car. The difference between the 'tater and 2871 was nominal. Then again, not all setups where equal. The GT2560 had torque like a mother fucker. Down low my 2554 is nice @14-15psi, but it's not what I'm looking for anymore and the price to jump to a 2871 is what scares me away. I can build a entire new hotside and have a plethora of cheap, sturdy, power house turbos for right around the same price as a new GT2871.

EDIT (2): Is there a chance you can get a ride in a car that is setup similarly to what you want or perhaps a gt2871 car? That is what helped me the most in deciding what I wanted.

Good luck.

If you're planning to use your VVT, then the 2871 is probably the smallest turbo you'd ever want. I'm using a 2876 and I have no complaints about lag based on where I find myself in the power band. If I'm above 3k, it pulls nicely until it pulls like mad.

Cool so the market leader in aftermarket turbos has history of failures. If I googled blown borg warner turbos, would the percentage of hits be in direct proportion to the market share they own in the same application?

The 2nd week after I bought Rev's MS I bought the VVT box. (my turbo was failing at the same time I went to MS so I thought the VVT was why I was down on power)

So yes VVT is running and will be utilized.

I trust your judgement - tell me about these specs on a 2871:

Comp.
Ind Exd Trim A/R
53.1mm 71.0mm 56 0.60

Turbine
Wh Dia Trim A/R
53.9mm 76 0.64

Will I be satisfied with the spool running that to 12psi until I go built next spring?

I had the same correlation done with tranny failures of a common minivan.

More units sold mean more volume of failures even at a lower failure rate than a tranny with a higher faulure rate on a minivan that sold way less units.


Statistics can prove anything, 10% of all people know that.......

(Simpsons)

You two can take your logic and leave. This is an emotional non-fact based argument.

maybe not quite 12 psi... but it's basically one step down from my turbo so you probably gain the spool I miss out on. I bet you'll be happy.

there will be posts following this telling you to get the .86 A/R housing I'm sure. you may also want to consider skipping the internal wastegate and going straight to an external wastegate.

My Garrett turbo is 2-years old and has roughly 30-hours of track time on it. I'll buy another.

Ok whatever guys keep smoking the garrett long wong.

No shit more units in existence equals more failures. The total overall failure rate is still very high though.

Did you really not even notice in this very thread that two garrett customers in our small community have had BB failures? That is a high percentage of failure, period.

If you want to stick your head in the sand go ahead.

The Borg's sound great just that I cant find an EFR for under 1K which almost twice the price of the 2871 I'm looking at. Sometimes money and availability play a big part in the decision. If there was one lightly used in the 7-800 range I might have went down that road.

Better is a relative term. If only hard numbers and literal life span were 100% accurate. When everyones mileage may vary it becomes a personal choice. I'm happy to spend $600 to my door for a decent Garrett turbo.


** EDIT **

Actually the Borgs sound really really good the more I read the documentation on them. I'm just priced out of that market.

The Xida's are amazing too but I'm not at that level.

Perhaps you are sitting way above the standard Miataphile bar or is it that you have been assimilated by the "BORG" ?

"Resistance is futile"

"Rubber is nitrile"

"Your long wong it sterile, no extending your penile"

Regarding the original question, I have a 3071R EWG .82AR turbine and I have enjoyed it tremendously for the past few years. I ran it at 220hp 9psi for 3 years before putting in my built motor and I had fun.

you go count up all of the turbo users on this site and sort them by brand and show me a statistical analysis of garrett failures compared to other failures and then i'll choose whether to stick my head in the sand or not.

until then, it's puretly anecdotal evidence.

just like the "asians have small penises" stereotype.

the use BWs on audi S4s and BMWs and those things break all the time, therefore BW turbos are garbage.

Honestly I think BW turbos look like the sexiest thing out, but as has been hinted at:

I have a to4e on my rx7, and a 2560 about to go on the miata. Both of those, for less than half the $$$ of a BW. I will say, that now they are getting more popular, that stat may change. Until recently an enthusiast sized BW was kind of a unicorn, unless you paid full-boat from a retailer.

EFR is not their only line. I posted the link to the catalog. SX journal bearing ones are cheap.

yeah the EFR 6258 is like $1500..you can get two new 2560s for that price. But they are pretty trick, come with a built in bov, boost control solenoid, etc

So far we have concluded:

Fact - BW EFT Turbos are very well built and costly - rare in the used market
Fact - Garrett Turbo's are well built and slighlty less costly - plentiful used
Fact - Bears eat Beets
Opinion - I need more opinions on the 2871, and thanks for the ones posted thus far Y8S and pdextra

Fact: A thread that doesnt take a tangent isn't really a thread at all.............

I will say that I was not surprised when mine failed....not surprised at all. Not because I was expecting it to be a POS with no life, but because it lived one hell of a life. I went with a new CHRA and eventually a new exhaust housing. I see it as I can sell it for pretty close to new condition if I feel like it.

I'd venture the vast majority of aftermarket turbo failures (including Garrett, BW, and anybody else) are related to either user error, or "abuse". I use the term "abuse" to mean anything outside the design limits of the turbo, sometimes its done on accident or through ignorance, sometimes on purpose, sometimes because someone is stupid, and sometimes just because somebody wants to see just how far they can push it.

That said, I'll make an offer to any member here, that if they have a failed garrett turbo and want to know why, you can send it to me and I'll guarantee it will be looked at by a Garrett engineer for possible causes of failure. I will even send the parts back if the owner wishes to cover return shipping. Just to be clear, I do not represent Garrett doing this, only offering to do this as a personal favor to the members here, and it is only for informational purposes to help people avoid repeating damage to thier turbos.

To the OP, I think you would be better off sticking with a 2560 for now, and selling it for a 2871 if you want to go for more at a later date. If you get the 2871 now, you'll probably never end up doing anything more with it.

I bought my begi s3 kit from johndoe and was told it originally came with a 2871 but he swapped it for a 2560 as the 2871 was to laggy. This was on basically the same, stock engine, setup I have currently.

My previous car had a smaller turbo (and a built bp) and pulled like mad from 2500rpm where the 2560 feels more leisurely.

Saying garrets suck is a bold statement. They are the most produced and sold turbo in the world. Finding a couple ebay post or random shit about them isnt alot of failure compared to the amount of product that is produced. just sayin...

My 2871 has been pumping over 25psi for almost 2 full seasons now and its fine..

As for the OQ for a street car I would keep the 2560. To me instant response on the highway or in town would be more fun. More fun light to light and when on the highway you can just punch it and shred.

If you are worried about a loud BOV, dont have a loud one, or muffle it so it doesnt annoy you.

You brought up the highway though. If you are looking to beat up on car on the highway and thats is the main goal, get the bigger turbo..

I'm 9 years into my 2560. It's been abused. I thought it was garbage after it sat for 6 months on my subaru. Turned out it was rust jammed between the turbine wheel and the heat shield thing. Still going good, I think. I get a slight oil burning smell on high vac high rpm decel. I hope it's the oldass turbo and not valve seals.

The turbine blades are eroding too, they are pretty damn thin now on the trailing edge/exducer.

Bitch spins for 20 secs when I shut it off. wwwhhhhiiiirrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll l

If I didn't have this turbo and know how fantastic it is on the street, I'd rock the 56trim 2871. Actually no, I'd buy a BW EFR. Balla.

Right because blowngarretts.com

My turbine spins for roughly 3-hours after I turn the car off and it makes about 15psi with the car of.

The 2560 drives almost like an OEM turbo car does - really snappy boost response, comes on very early. If I were building a daily driver, it would be a 2560 car, no doubt about it.

The 2871 is a larger turbo, and it drives like it. Boost response isn't quite as good, there's a little more lag, and it comes on a bit less smoothly. When it comes on, though, it pulls like a god damn freight train, all the way into the rev limiter. The 2560 will start to run out of breath past 6500rpm, but the 2871 is still pulling hard at 7k.

The 2871 is not undriveable by any stretch of the word, but it definitely drives like an aftermarket turbo car. Roll into the throttle with a 2560, and the boost picks up pretty much immediately, nice smooth onset, and it pulls smoothly to ~6700rpm. Roll into the 2871, and you get a slight delay in boost onset, followed by a much more firm transition into boost. It's not necessarily harsh, it's just not buttery smooth like the 2560 is.

The 2871 will make a little less torque than a 2560 will under 4000rpm. Add VVT and that changes - the 2871 makes slightly more torque until about 3500rpm, and then it makes a LOT more torque.

If you think you'll be happy with 250whp, stick with the small one. If you want to sample 300+ someday, and you think you can live with a little bit of response loss, the 2871 is pretty damn good.

My 2871 is a 52-trim compressor, .86 A/R turbine. I've been told by a Garrett engineer that I chose nicely. ;)

That was great, your poetry made feel like id just been in the car. For someone
who hasn't driven that turbo(me) that was a dyno chart come to life - thank you.

Have you driven a "disco" and care to add any words about that ?

Shift what he said about boost threshold 800rpm lower, with a bit more torque under there, then less output up top.

I run the 2560 on my track car and it was at 225-235rwhp going to see if I can make it to 240-250 with some changes.

Love the reponse and as my rev limit is at stockish 6900, it pulls hard to redline. It can make 15psi at 3400rpm (MBC) but I let it come in a bit more smoothly as I've already blown one 5spd in the past 12 months and low end torque is what kills it best.

Not sure if I'd like a turbo that comes in later* and would force me to go to 2nd in some corners where I now leave it in 3rd and loose only 0.1s unless I misshift 2-3 and loose .5s there.

Also, breaking gearboxes with the 2560, I'd seriously think about the Quaiffe gearset before running near 300rwhp. Reliability is key in my book.

*) VVT and a 99+ head would probably solve that.

The 2560 in my 2200lbs track bitch already nears acceleration of recent winged 911's so my focus is more on cornering where this car already shines but needs aero to really keep up.