Unsure if I should keep 2560 or go to a 2871 - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-07-2011, 06:18 PM   #41
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The Borg's sound great just that I cant find an EFR for under 1K which almost twice the price of the 2871 I'm looking at. Sometimes money and availability play a big part in the decision. If there was one lightly used in the 7-800 range I might have went down that road.

Better is a relative term. If only hard numbers and literal life span were 100% accurate. When everyones mileage may vary it becomes a personal choice. I'm happy to spend $600 to my door for a decent Garrett turbo.


** EDIT **

Actually the Borgs sound really really good the more I read the documentation on them. I'm just priced out of that market.

The Xida's are amazing too but I'm not at that level.

Perhaps you are sitting way above the standard Miataphile bar or is it that you have been assimilated by the "BORG" ?

"Resistance is futile"

"Rubber is nitrile"

"Your long wong it sterile, no extending your penile"
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:19 PM   #42
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Regarding the original question, I have a 3071R EWG .82AR turbine and I have enjoyed it tremendously for the past few years. I ran it at 220hp 9psi for 3 years before putting in my built motor and I had fun.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:20 PM   #43
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you go count up all of the turbo users on this site and sort them by brand and show me a statistical analysis of garrett failures compared to other failures and then i'll choose whether to stick my head in the sand or not.

until then, it's puretly anecdotal evidence.

just like the "asians have small penises" stereotype.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:26 PM   #44
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the use BWs on audi S4s and BMWs and those things break all the time, therefore BW turbos are garbage.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:32 PM   #45
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Honestly I think BW turbos look like the sexiest thing out, but as has been hinted at:

I have a to4e on my rx7, and a 2560 about to go on the miata. Both of those, for less than half the $$$ of a BW. I will say, that now they are getting more popular, that stat may change. Until recently an enthusiast sized BW was kind of a unicorn, unless you paid full-boat from a retailer.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:37 PM   #46
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EFR is not their only line. I posted the link to the catalog. SX journal bearing ones are cheap.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:37 PM   #47
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yeah the EFR 6258 is like $1500..you can get two new 2560s for that price. But they are pretty trick, come with a built in bov, boost control solenoid, etc
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:38 PM   #48
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So far we have concluded:

Fact - BW EFT Turbos are very well built and costly - rare in the used market
Fact - Garrett Turbo's are well built and slighlty less costly - plentiful used
Fact - Bears eat Beets
Opinion - I need more opinions on the 2871, and thanks for the ones posted thus far Y8S and pdextra

Fact: A thread that doesnt take a tangent isn't really a thread at all.............
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:39 PM   #49
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I will say that I was not surprised when mine failed....not surprised at all. Not because I was expecting it to be a POS with no life, but because it lived one hell of a life. I went with a new CHRA and eventually a new exhaust housing. I see it as I can sell it for pretty close to new condition if I feel like it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:30 PM   #50
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I'd venture the vast majority of aftermarket turbo failures (including Garrett, BW, and anybody else) are related to either user error, or "abuse". I use the term "abuse" to mean anything outside the design limits of the turbo, sometimes its done on accident or through ignorance, sometimes on purpose, sometimes because someone is stupid, and sometimes just because somebody wants to see just how far they can push it.

That said, I'll make an offer to any member here, that if they have a failed garrett turbo and want to know why, you can send it to me and I'll guarantee it will be looked at by a Garrett engineer for possible causes of failure. I will even send the parts back if the owner wishes to cover return shipping. Just to be clear, I do not represent Garrett doing this, only offering to do this as a personal favor to the members here, and it is only for informational purposes to help people avoid repeating damage to thier turbos.

To the OP, I think you would be better off sticking with a 2560 for now, and selling it for a 2871 if you want to go for more at a later date. If you get the 2871 now, you'll probably never end up doing anything more with it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #51
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I bought my begi s3 kit from johndoe and was told it originally came with a 2871 but he swapped it for a 2560 as the 2871 was to laggy. This was on basically the same, stock engine, setup I have currently.

My previous car had a smaller turbo (and a built bp) and pulled like mad from 2500rpm where the 2560 feels more leisurely.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:28 PM   #52
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Saying garrets suck is a bold statement. They are the most produced and sold turbo in the world. Finding a couple ebay post or random **** about them isnt alot of failure compared to the amount of product that is produced. just sayin...

My 2871 has been pumping over 25psi for almost 2 full seasons now and its fine..

As for the OQ for a street car I would keep the 2560. To me instant response on the highway or in town would be more fun. More fun light to light and when on the highway you can just punch it and shred.

If you are worried about a loud BOV, dont have a loud one, or muffle it so it doesnt annoy you.

You brought up the highway though. If you are looking to beat up on car on the highway and thats is the main goal, get the bigger turbo..
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:37 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post

Ok whatever guys keep smoking the garrett long wong.

No **** more units in existence equals more failures. The total overall failure rate is still very high though.

Did you really not even notice in this very thread that two garrett customers in our small community have had BB failures? That is a high percentage of failure, period.

If you want to stick your head in the sand go ahead.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:09 PM   #54
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I'm 9 years into my 2560. It's been abused. I thought it was garbage after it sat for 6 months on my subaru. Turned out it was rust jammed between the turbine wheel and the heat shield thing. Still going good, I think. I get a slight oil burning smell on high vac high rpm decel. I hope it's the oldass turbo and not valve seals.

The turbine blades are eroding too, they are pretty damn thin now on the trailing edge/exducer.

Bitch spins for 20 secs when I shut it off. wwwhhhhiiiirrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll l

If I didn't have this turbo and know how fantastic it is on the street, I'd rock the 56trim 2871. Actually no, I'd buy a BW EFR. Balla.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
If I didn't have this turbo and know how fantastic it is on the street, I'd rock the 56trim 2871. Actually no, I'd buy a BW EFR. Balla.
Right because blowngarretts.com
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:23 PM   #56
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My turbine spins for roughly 3-hours after I turn the car off and it makes about 15psi with the car of.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:08 AM   #57
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The 2560 drives almost like an OEM turbo car does - really snappy boost response, comes on very early. If I were building a daily driver, it would be a 2560 car, no doubt about it.

The 2871 is a larger turbo, and it drives like it. Boost response isn't quite as good, there's a little more lag, and it comes on a bit less smoothly. When it comes on, though, it pulls like a god damn freight train, all the way into the rev limiter. The 2560 will start to run out of breath past 6500rpm, but the 2871 is still pulling hard at 7k.

The 2871 is not undriveable by any stretch of the word, but it definitely drives like an aftermarket turbo car. Roll into the throttle with a 2560, and the boost picks up pretty much immediately, nice smooth onset, and it pulls smoothly to ~6700rpm. Roll into the 2871, and you get a slight delay in boost onset, followed by a much more firm transition into boost. It's not necessarily harsh, it's just not buttery smooth like the 2560 is.

The 2871 will make a little less torque than a 2560 will under 4000rpm. Add VVT and that changes - the 2871 makes slightly more torque until about 3500rpm, and then it makes a LOT more torque.

If you think you'll be happy with 250whp, stick with the small one. If you want to sample 300+ someday, and you think you can live with a little bit of response loss, the 2871 is pretty damn good.

My 2871 is a 52-trim compressor, .86 A/R turbine. I've been told by a Garrett engineer that I chose nicely.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:32 AM   #58
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That was great, your poetry made feel like id just been in the car. For someone
who hasn't driven that turbo(me) that was a dyno chart come to life - thank you.

Have you driven a "disco" and care to add any words about that ?
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrew View Post
That was great, your poetry made feel like id just been in the car. For someone
who hasn't driven that turbo(me) that was a dyno chart come to life - thank you.

Have you driven a "disco" and care to add any words about that ?
Shift what he said about boost threshold 800rpm lower, with a bit more torque under there, then less output up top.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:18 AM   #60
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I run the 2560 on my track car and it was at 225-235rwhp going to see if I can make it to 240-250 with some changes.

Love the reponse and as my rev limit is at stockish 6900, it pulls hard to redline. It can make 15psi at 3400rpm (MBC) but I let it come in a bit more smoothly as I've already blown one 5spd in the past 12 months and low end torque is what kills it best.

Not sure if I'd like a turbo that comes in later* and would force me to go to 2nd in some corners where I now leave it in 3rd and loose only 0.1s unless I misshift 2-3 and loose .5s there.

Also, breaking gearboxes with the 2560, I'd seriously think about the Quaiffe gearset before running near 300rwhp. Reliability is key in my book.

*) VVT and a 99+ head would probably solve that.

The 2560 in my 2200lbs track bitch already nears acceleration of recent winged 911's so my focus is more on cornering where this car already shines but needs aero to really keep up.
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