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Old 06-23-2006, 12:41 PM   #1
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Default what about timing on a 99?

ok from what I understand, the 99 ecu, automatically adjusts timing, correct? but, my question is how it will work with 8psi?

I plan on running the voodoo box for my fueling. just a basic diy t3 kit, nothing too fancy for now, just want to make some extra power.. you know pull low 14s!
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Old 06-23-2006, 01:23 PM   #2
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All ECUs adjust timing: from '90-'06. Thing is, they can only adjust it so much, given the parameters they have to work with, one of them not being a MAP or boost signal (as they were never meant to work with a turbo).

So, if you were to do nothing to your ignition timing (i.e. allow the stock ECU to continue doing its normal thing) with 8psi of boost, you'd detonate like crazy and blow your motor.

Long story short, you need to adjust your timing, which is a bit more difficult on the '99-'05 models than the '90-'97 models which had the Bipes and MSD units available.
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Old 06-23-2006, 01:43 PM   #3
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ok so, what are the options for timing adjustments. I have seen the J&S safeguard - which goes cylinder by cylnder, now I dont think I need anything that advanced, and I know I dont have the cash for it yet, at 500$.

MSD makes and ignition unit I believe for the 99, but does the control the timing, or advance it? I have tried reading on m.net but could not really find any specifics.. . search options are not always usually the best unless you plan on spending hours of hours reading different threads. So I figure I just come to you turbo gurus!

so please list the options I have and what would work best for me, as i am not trying to have a top-o-the line kit here. yet.
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Old 06-23-2006, 02:42 PM   #4
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The 99 has a knock sensor, so the ecu would pulling timing... not the right thing to do for timing control, but it would spare the motor. The timing pickup at the trigger wheel (crank plate) can be moved to adjust base timing. Basically you trick the ecu into thinking that timing is set at base, when in reality you've physically retarded the timing pick up point. I believe somebody made some hardware to do this - though it could be done custom also. You'd just need to make it adjustable and check timing with a light to set base. - rob
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Old 06-23-2006, 02:46 PM   #5
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great information Rob, just need to find the person who made the software lol!
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Old 06-23-2006, 03:47 PM   #6
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Well, pulling timing upon detecting detonation is still going to eventually kill the motor.

I recall FM created a little crank pulley timing wheel that had oblong mounting holes so you could alter the timing for their '99+ turbo kits by adjusting the wheel.
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Old 06-23-2006, 04:43 PM   #7
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Not software- a piece of hardware as mentioned. You just need to get down there and look at if you're the type to DIY.
Right- knock sensor is NOT timing control, it's damage control... to an extent.
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Old 06-23-2006, 04:55 PM   #8
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ok would a wideband work for both fuel and timing? - lol as you can see im searching and reading stuff, just not completely understanding.. in time it will come. I am fine when it comes to n/a lol but damn this f/i ****!
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Old 06-23-2006, 04:58 PM   #9
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and bipes would not work either correct?

and what about the MSD ignition boost retard , FM uses it on their FM I kits. so would that not work?

Last edited by thatguy; 06-23-2006 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 06-24-2006, 01:04 AM   #10
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A wideband is a type of oxygen sensor that is used to read values above and below stoichiometric more accurately; it won't do anything for fueling, it's just a measurement/reading device.

The Bipes and MSD devices were designed to intercept and alter the CAS signal the ECU on the '90-'97 cars; it won't work on the '99+ cars. As I mentioned earlier, the more basic turbo kits for the '99+ cars used a timing wheel attached to the crank pulley that gave the crank sensor an altered reading.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:44 PM   #11
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hi try going on a fuel and timing ECU
i ran 18psi with stock internals on a '00 engine the same as a '99
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:50 PM   #12
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Good for you. Here's a cookie.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:54 PM   #13
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You guys will think I'm nuts for saying this, but I've tested it and it DOES work. I used a timing light to test it. You can add a potentiometer ( a variable resistor) inline/in series with the factory Air Intake Temp sensor and by adding resistance, the ecu will advance base timing. I went from 10 degrees with no resistance added to 15* by adding 3K ohms of resistance. Likewise, by adding the potentiometer in parallel, you can retard timming, and I was able to move timing from 10* to 6* using a pot in parallel with I think 2K ohms, but you'll have to experiment to see what works the best.

Anyway, if you wanted to get creative and build something cheap to retard timing, that would work. You could build a little circuit that added the resistor in parallel when the motor sees boost, by using a pressure switch like you would use for water injection. Personally I've already removed all this cause I have MS II now but it did work for me.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
Well, pulling timing upon detecting detonation is still going to eventually kill the motor.
Btw, the guy at J&S says detonation won't kill your motor, the preignition followed by continues detonation would. According to him having a box reacting to detonation won't kill your engine, unless the box doesn't react and the detonation contiues and causes preignition
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bripab007 View Post
Well, pulling timing upon detecting detonation is still going to eventually kill the motor.

I recall FM created a little crank pulley timing wheel that had oblong mounting holes so you could alter the timing for their '99+ turbo kits by adjusting the wheel.
Actually, depends on the sensor threshold. You can get away with a little pinging for quite a while but severe detonation kills motors dead.

Mark
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:40 AM   #16
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I used the emanage blue for timing.
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