What turbo manifold to get? There arent many options out there....
 

I'm looking around for turbo manifolds for a 1.8l 96 miata but I am having a hard time finding them. The only ones were the JGS, Begi, and HKS. Are there any other ones out there that I am missing? I cant seem to find any other turbo manifolds.

ebay

definitely ebay brand, don't settle for less!

stop posting

it was a joke, I know better

It seems they make most turbo manifolds for the 1.6l on ebay.

I cant seem to find any t3/t4 manifolds for the 1.8l and only gt25/28 manifolds...

absurdflow

you should know better than to post over here at all. You better hope to fucking god that I don't catch you gaying up this forum or you're going to live a miserable existence for the rest of your celibate life.

I can has Absurdflow?

But seriously, I'd rather have a stroke than deal with Bell Engineering ever again. Go with a custom manifold from Absurdflow or order a manifold/downpipe combo from FM (you can order individual parts from them), source your own turbo/water lines, and buy an intercooler and generic pipe kit from eBay and fabricate/assemble it yourself.

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like I will be ordering a JGS cast iron manifold.

You're an idiot if you go with cast iron. I don't even know if Tim will make another absurdflow manifold for you, but if you don't buy that you're a moron too. You can read through the long ass threads on here and come to those conclusions yourself.

Ive been reading a lot of the old threads and still don't see a straight answer to choose cast iron or tubular. I see that the JGS manifold cracked on some people already but am not sure if the JGS cast manifold will 'always' crack or only a few percentages cracked. The Begi seems to have bad airflow. So that really only leaves the option to absurdflow. Though the price for absurdflow is really high (as I am only planning to boost 6-7 psi only and don't want to spend that much on a turbo manifold). I have pieced turbo system already but am having a lot of trouble finding/deciding which manifold to get. There doesn't seem to be a certain manifold that everyone gets and recommends.

May I ask what manifold you are using and for how long now? Previous experience with other manifolds also?

Thanks. I am considering FM manifold now.

I've had a begi manifold and the studs stretch and the manifold warped once I finally got on the track. Tim is making an Absurdflow for me. If this doesn't work, I'm selling all the miata shit and buying an Evo. Stay tuned.

If you want to track the car and you buy something other than a v-band manifold you're wasting your money.

The only real factor here is whether or not you do track days. And I don't mean AutoX, we're talking 30+ minute sessions at >100 MPH where you're at WOT most of the time.

Under these conditions, cast manifolds using conventional hardware seem to have trouble with the studs / nuts holding the turbo to the manifold loosening. We're not talking about turbos falling off or anything, just enough to cause a leak. A couple of companies are looking into the use of studs made from a material that was given to the CIA by aliens in 1953 (in exchange for a permit to harvest as many cow lips as they desire) and just recently acquired by the mainstream metallurgists' community, at a cost of many lives. No real-world data yet on their effectiveness.

you rock JP :laugh:

1.6 and 1.8's take the same manifold. you might have to drill some holes different.

If it don't work, you get your money back and I get out of the fancy manifold fab business...at least for track cars.

If you can weld I say go with a ebay one with welded braces I talked to a guy the other day and his ebay manifold is 2 years old with no issue. Just have to weld support braces.

it seems everyone and their mother will make you a manifold but not many offer downpipes which kinda defeats the purpose. because if i could make my own downpipe i'd make my own manifold too

Really?

From a layman's perspective (having never made a manifold), I've always assumed a few things.

First, the degree of skill (and the quality of tools) needed to build a manifold are vastly greater than to build a downpipe. Manifolds are subjected to much greater heat and pressure, and they bear a greater mechanical stress. They consist of a fairly large number of individual pieces, which must be cut at somewhat complex angles, and the materials involved are comparatively quite thick.

On the other hand, assuming you have the skill and tools, it's pretty easy to build a manifold on the bench, without access to the car that it's going to go into, and still ensure that it will fit properly and turbo not hit block. On the other hand, to ensure proper fitment of a downpipe, you really kinda need the whole car, including the manifold and the turbo. That's doable if you're building a large number of identical pipes, such as when designing a downpipe to work with a Greddy turbo on a Greddy manifold, or a GT25 on a Bell manifold in an NB. You build it once in the car, then you build a jig, then you build all the rest of them on the jig. But if you're doing a lot of different fitments, for different turbos on different manifolds on different cars, well, that's a hell of a lot of variables.

In other words, manifold-building is a demanding task that happens to be well-suited to remote fabrication. Downpipe building, though it requires custom-fitment, is far less demanding of skill and equipment and thus easier for the layperson (or the local exhaust shop) to execute.

Thoughts?

Sounds pretty much exactly correct to me.

http://jeremyberg.files.wordpress.co.../02/moses1.jpg
so it is said, let it be written.

Tim, I gotta say, I love that avatar of yours.

I had a FM1 manifold and I broke every stud left and right or the nut and/or stud just came lose. The only way I was able to stop the loosening was the drill holes in the nut heads and wire them to each other like they do with air craft parts. Then for the studs I went and found the best I could find around town and pinned them in. work good for the time I had that manifold but now I got a custom one made to fit the DSM turbos seeing how as the dsm turbos are cheaper. They make every thing from the factory 14b to bolt on gt35r that use the same downpipe and internal wastegate so its a good 300 to 500 cheaper.

you missed my point. i bet there are thousands out there that pass on someones beautiful manifold and buy from fm begi or tim because they'll get a downpipe and not have to worry about sourcing or building their own. welding is a skill that not everyone has nor wants. Be it a manifold or downpipe doesn't matter much.

No, I get your point, and I agree. But what's the solution?

the solution would be to buy from someone who can supply a downpipe for your setup.

the op was asking for a suggestion on a manifold, i figured valuable advice would be pointing him in a direction where he could get parts that were a bolt on affair without having any extra greif in his life

yep, that's the solution, include a DP

I give props to the DIY guys but I'm happy to pay a premium to get the best parts and parts I can set and forget.

your not a real man........ real men DIY!! go Tim!!! lol

call me what you will

you can have ghetto fab, I'll go Absurdflow

Now tim, about the absurdflow manifold what turbo is the manafold built for. I have a 00 i am going to DIY my entire turbo kit for. Going to be running the FM hydra. And how much is the manifold.

They are custom-built for any turbo you damn well please to put on 'em. Every one is different, which is part of the reason there's no standard downpipe for them (which is what posts # 24-35 of this thread have been about.)

Ok. Thanks for the claification. And so in other words read more carefuly :doh:.

just to be sure, you did use the manifold brace?

is a v-band manifold truly that much of a necessity?

I like my AbsurdFlow SGDP because it's serial #1 of 1, and Tim swore on his welding machine that there will never, ever be a #2 for what I paid!

The nearly immediate spool is also nice. :)

Thanks again everyone for your input. I appreciate it. I can weld so I will be welding all the intercooler pipes.exhaust pipes. Downpipe, etc.

Email me for the list of current options and costs. This is constantly changing as I find cheaper vendors, sources of raw material, and my attitude.

Your attitude couldn't have been cheaper a year ago?

It most certainly was cheaper a year ago, because I like you.

Gosh, I've never seen so many people bash the BEGI cast iron manifold before. What got into everyone all the sudden? It is one of the best available and has the best history of any manifold, ever made for the Miata. 16 years and two unexplained failures. There have been other failures, but those can be attributed to too much ignition retard. Too much ignition retard will kill/crack any manifold. That said, it has to take alot of abuse in order to crack it.

I think the true test of durability - is that all of the 400 hp plus miatas running a cast iron manifolds - are using the BEGI manifold. The first 600 whp Miata was running a BEGI cast iron manifold. Short of dropping it on the floor or retarding too much timing, it is nearly bullet proof.

As for flow, the only one that potentially has us beat is the absurd flow manifold. It is pretty spiffy, but not a cast iron manifold. Time will tell how the welded ones hold up. The FM manifold has more bends and angles to it, therefore it will flow worse. It also does not have the divided pulse feature.

As for reliability, I can just about guarantee you that an FM manifold will break studs. 8mm studs do not last that long even for street use. Been there, done that, and learned that lesson. We have been using 10 mm studs for a few years now. The only people that have problems with the 10 mm studs are the racers. That could very well be because we were shipping grade 5 studs instead of grade 8 studs. That problem is fixed now though. The grade 5 studs got thrown in the garbage and the grade 8 studs are shipping with ALL the turbo kits and manifolds. However, they still seem to have a stud stretching problem. Corky's investigation continues. I, personally, do not track my car and have never had a loose nut or stud problem. I put lots of miles on it, but no track use. If I had to choose between an S4 manifold and the cast iron one, I'd probably choose the cast iron for the reliability factor.
Stephanie

I'm always the first to say that my BEGi kit was 100% reliable on the street. I never had to put a wrench on it once. Even after track action, the only parts that failed were the studs...and that says a lot considering the demands I've put on it.

Now, for a discussion that hinges upon untested equipment that may, and probably will fail on the track, lets just pretend that v-bands work for a moment:

I don't want to deal with taking the turbo manifold on and off to replace studs 5-hours from home, and sending the manifold to the machine shop each time to get it fixed. Considering that BEGi now makes a V-band kit there is no reason to deal with cast iron any longer in my esteemed opinion. They warp, the studs break/stretch, so why anyone would spend money when there's as absolute solution from one of the big vendors? Of course BEGi should keep selling it, but "I told you so" for every person who experiences this problem when either BEGi or Tim are making manifolds which circumvent this problem. Its 2009, every competitive racing team is using V-bands, so now its time to evolve. The turbo miata world had a revolution this summer, I embraced it.

If I could turn back time, I would have started with V-banding (or stay naturally aspirated like I knew I should have) and never had any of these problems but after the amount of money I've spent trying to make it through 1-session on a cast manifold it would be foolish to go with anything but v-bands. If the V-band kit fails, I've learned a roughly $6k lesson just in turbo parts alone. I'm going to cry and cry over it...but I'm selling everything and buying an Evo-9. Get ready for the fire sale.

Looking at the Begi V-Band downpipe, why is the wastegate exhaust reintroduced immediately after the turbo exhaust? I was just wondering if this could be one of the reasons for the vband setup lacking power...

Nope. It has more to do with a turbine housing that is possibly the wrong size. Or a turbo inlet of 2.5" instead of 3", etc.. The turbo has the smaller a/r turbine. The car makes 267 ft/lbs torque at 4200 rpm (fun to drive!!!), but starts to fall off.

I did ask Corky about that too, just to be sure. :)
Stephanie

Because their jig can't handle a better design.

I wish I could afford that #2 for my IHI ;~;

Maybe someday.

you guys should block off the WG exhaust inlet into the DP and run a completely separate "screamer pipe" from the WG.

it sounds kind of like the car gets up to full boost and then the WG starts opening and screwing up the flow behind the turbine and flow/power starts to drop off... I really don't like to contradict Corky, but it just seems like a relatively valid theory.

what a/r turbine do the s4 kits usually have?

We made this pipe strictly off the jig from the standard SG DP. Since Tim did not know how it would fit, he built the vent tube shorter. But seeing as how be built it off the jig, and no car to test fit it on, he did a damn fine job. It fit perfectly. Went straight down the middle of the tranny tunnel.

.86 A/R. This one has a .64.

Also, we do not think it is the downpipe, because the pipe is already larger than the normal pipe. It is 2.75" pipe right off the turbo. Most are 2.25" off the turbo.

Stephanie

Yeah, I am pretty sure it was just me being stupid and not going with a larger A/R. I may get to upgarde to a 2871 sooner than I thought :hs:

dont buy a boostlogic manifold is my only advice, pure crap
here is the gem of a merge collector they put in it
Attachment 203886
Attachment 203887

its a $900 paper weight
i sent it back

if you live near NY hit up synapse motor sports, here is what they build me
Attachment 203888
Attachment 203889

Ohhhhhhh very nice, I hadn't thought of that turbo location, I like it. How much did that manifold run you?

Got any shots of the synapse collector? That really is one of the nicest looking Miata manifolds I've ever seen.

mmmmm, I like a lot.

I like that synapse design.

I've spent a significant period of my life under the super-miata with the Boost-Logic manifold and although it looks like shit, its made crazy #'s and the connecting hardware never loosens on race-day. But yeah, it looks like shit.


Tim...going to change the v-band design any? I like the location of the Synapse manifold better (dear god intercooler pipes will be easier and I won't have to change my water inlet neck), but at this point you could give me a hunk of shit with v-bands on it, and as long as it stays together, I don't care.

It's cool if you dont mind the extra 3 feet of downpipe burning your hood off... maybe facing the comp inlet a little more forward would straighten that first DP bend out...

Are you talking about the SCC Miata?