Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 99mx5 View Post
This is correct, I'm currently learning from the hardcore racers what works and what doesn't to build my own setup as many have before me. I'd guess this is whats also driving begi to make the "mojo" system. There is a big difference between street systems and track systems.
My car has grown up a bit since you've seen it with ducting and hose wrap.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:47 PM   #42
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EFR's are *******.

People still whine about the T25 .64 housings on the EFR, but it's not the same as a Garrett. Same with the wastegates, they are serious business.

Here is a 6758 on a Cobalt using a stock exhaust manifold w/ adapter, stock head, stock intake manifold.

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:00 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
BEGi has been building turbo kits for Miatas for over a decade. I don't know what the mojo kit will be, but expecting them to suddenly come up with a system that works on the track is a little far-fetched, IMO. If they had that capability, they would have done it a long time ago.
Who is going to test it? Anyone worth a **** with a Miata in Texas is in TXMC barring Keith Verges, and none of us know of any testing. I wish them the best as I would any fellow, small business owning, capitalist Texan...I recommend they find someone who can drive to test it. If they want to pay my entree fee and provide a car, I'll do it (wink wink). The turbo Miata game changed over the last 2-years, we have a formula now. Once you guys start using Inco wire with Inco bolts on everything, you'll have my degree of success.
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Think about the companies that have produced game-changing parts in the last 5 years. The 6UL has become the gold standard motorsport wheel for Miatas, but 5 years ago it was an idea in Emilio's head. His frustrations from being unable to buy the parts he wanted for his own track car spawned the 8" 6UL, then the 9" 6UL, and now the 10" 6UL. The rigors of regular competitive motorsport provide the kind of environment that quality parts come from.
I remember when I called him up to request bronze and he was defiant...so I called him a few more times (drunk and two time-zones away) posing as another person requesting **** like bicycle wheels, trailer wheels, and Yugo fitment. I don't think he knows it was me, lol. I had a lot of free time on my hands back then.
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If you aren't testing your products by bolting them to a race car and beating the snot out of it, you're going to end up with egg on your face when one of your customers goes out and does it (with sub-par results). I know this first-hand - I've spent the better part of 4 years being that customer.
+1 I've broken roughly $6k worth of parts.
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I don't think that difference is as big as people make it out to be. You can certainly get away with using lower-grade components in a street car, but I don't think that's acceptable. The same high-quality parts that will make our kits reliable and fast on the track will provide unparalleled low-end torque, response, and efficiency on the street. Thousands of people take their turbocharged street cars to the track every weekend - there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to purchase a turbo kit for a Miata and do exactly the same thing (assuming the rest of your car is up to the task).
I had this revelation a while ago. I consider the short list of companies who make reliable turbo parts to be ABSURDflow, Full Race, Twins Turbo, Boost Logic, and Active Autowerke. You can't get a 4-cylinder manifold from any of these guys for less than $1600. I've basically "raced" this car and driven it home about 30-times over the last three years and "needed" to take the turbo off once. If you offer me a $900 manifold/dp combo that I'll have to **** with a dozen times per year vs Full Race priced, zero maintenance, I'll take the latter. I'll also remember this conversation if I ever order your turbo kit and I expect bro price or you'll get that safety-wire urethra probe with my purchase.

On a side note, TDR still tells people my car is unreliable and I work on it all the time, no matter how many superchargers or belts their cars throw. I recently heard that my turbocharger bent my exhaust valves. Maybe someone will see me drive it to and from the track every time and start putting two and two together.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
EFR's are *******.

People still whine about the T25 .64 housings on the EFR, but it's not the same as a Garrett. Same with the wastegates, they are serious business.

Here is a 6758 on a Cobalt using a stock exhaust manifold w/ adapter, stock head, stock intake manifold.

lol @ 500lb/ft at 3500rpm. How the **** does someone drive a FWD car with power like that? I made 480hp/tq in the Corrado and it was a death machine even in 6th. My arms hurt from wrestling the wheel after a night of highway racing.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:52 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I was given this thread to read, but I have not yet. I don't know what it says but supposedly the EFR came apart after 10 laps. I'll read it once I get the time.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...yno-graph.html

And as was said earlier, EFR's turbine alloy is Titanium-Aluminum stuff.
I just spent half and hour reading that whole thread. The short version is as follows.

First motor with the EFR on it made a shitton of power and then the oil pump blew. He towed the car down to Buschur Racing to have them fix it and retune. They completely built a new motor and tuned the car. It spooled slightly slower and made slightly less power. He then took the car out on the track. The first 2 20min sessions went flawlessly. During the 3rd session the turbo died. The shaft bent in the EFR. Geoff at Fullrace hooked him up with his own personal EFR turbo so that he could take the evo back out on the track. The new motors spark plugs melted and engine is dead. David Bushur has said he will rebuild the motor and retune it for free. Car is currently being transported to David. First turbo is still at BW and being inspected.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:59 AM   #46
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My car has grown up a bit since you've seen it with ducting and hose wrap.
Sweet! It was a blast when I last saw it. I hope to be racing with you in the future.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:38 AM   #47
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I just talked to a turbo guy about this an aparently they're having a tough time bonding the turbine to the shaft like the Mitsu VITME turbo. He believes the only way to make it work is a one-piece shaft, which I don't understand because I thought it was bolted together. He said it was probably not a good idea to buy one yet unless BW promises a real warranty in writing.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:59 AM   #48
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He said it was probably not a good idea to buy one yet unless BW promises a real warranty in writing.
It has a 1 year warranty.. unfortunately in my case its almost been a year and my car still isn't running. I'm starting to consider letting someone break it in for me to find potential issues while i finish my car since the warranty is almost up...
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:01 PM   #49
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It has a 1 year warranty.. unfortunately in my case its almost been a year and my car still isn't running. I'm starting to consider letting someone break it in for me to find potential issues while i finish my car since the warranty is almost up...
He said the first run had problems and they're still working on the fix so I recommend you return it ASAP.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:34 PM   #50
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Where should i read up on these issues people are having? I just talked to Raffi and he said that the few people that had the issues did not break the turbo in correctly. (His version of break in was run at idle till operating engine temp then shut off and let cool till room temperature. Repeat 2 more times.) you would think they would heat treat the turbine in the factory so they would know the strength of their components out the door..
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:07 PM   #51
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You probably won't read about it because the first "batch" was sent to the UK. You also won't hear q company vested in a product talk about flaws or difficulties. It's highly likely that anyone who's testing or developing these is bound by a non-disclosure agreement.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:10 PM   #52
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Alright seriously this sucks. ive got my DP made already for this turbo and if for some reason they would take it back, i have nothing to replace it with. I already have negative feelings toward full race and if for some reason this turbo takes a **** on me after 3 months of using it im going to **** a brick. i paid 1400$ for a turbo that they did all kinds of testing on before they started selling it because i expected it to not fail. otherwise i would have bought a china charger.. any supporting vendors want to weigh in on what i should do? Id like to hear your perspective.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:27 PM   #53
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Alright seriously this sucks. ive got my DP made already for this turbo and if for some reason they would take it back, i have nothing to replace it with. I already have negative feelings toward full race and if for some reason this turbo takes a **** on me after 3 months of using it im going to **** a brick. i paid 1400$ for a turbo that they did all kinds of testing on before they started selling it because i expected it to not fail. otherwise i would have bought a china charger.. any supporting vendors want to weigh in on what i should do? Id like to hear your perspective.
Call up full race and ask them about the rumored bad batch that went to testing in the UK and all the turbos that failed on the Sierra Sierra car. Better yet, ask them in email if there was a design adjustment since you bought it. Then, break it and call an attorney.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:20 PM   #54
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Call up full race and ask them about the rumored bad batch that went to testing in the UK and all the turbos that failed on the Sierra Sierra car. Better yet, ask them in email if there was a design adjustment since you bought it. Then, break it and call an attorney.
All I am finding is that Sierra Sierra destroyed a lot of non-EFR turbos. Any updates about them destroying the EFR ones?
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:31 PM   #55
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All I am finding is that Sierra Sierra destroyed a lot of non-EFR turbos. Any updates about them destroying the EFR ones?
I like how the biggest money team keeps tearing up **** while the relatively low-budget FXMD team has great reliability.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #56
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Since when the **** do you have to break in a turbo?
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:15 PM   #57
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actually a friends turbo from precision came with break in instructions
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:35 PM   #58
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actually a friends turbo from precision came with break in instructions
There's another turbo company with an all-star reputation, lol.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:56 AM   #59
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The turbo arrived today. Fullrace even included a black anodized billet aluminum cover to replace the plastic one on the turbo.

Sorry for blurry pics (crappy camera).
Attached Thumbnails
Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?-dcfc0021.jpg   Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?-dcfc0019.jpg   Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?-dcfc0023.jpg   Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?-dcfc0025.jpg   Where did all the Borg Warner EFRs go?-dcfc0022.jpg  

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Old 11-20-2011, 01:17 AM   #60
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Lucky you they made me pay extra for that cover. I just looked up my purchase date, so I need to start beating on the turbo and see if it breaks by 6/11/2012
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