It worked :yippee:
 

Ohh yeah i am now running the rx7 460's. I had to take my rrfpr of as with it attached i was severly drownign the car on top. even pulling the max of fuel. But it works rx-7 afm and safcII+460cc high impedance injectors works great. so far 14 psi seems to be about my limit before i detonate so i might need to tweak my WI pressures or get a progressive but i am just happy :ughug: :skid: :yippee: it works yippee.:cool: :bigtu:

Very curious. So you're running just the stock fuel press reg? How's idle and low rpm throttle response?

idle is the same as ever i have my aic blocked of so i hunts abit but atleast with the safc i can richen it up to where i can run the AC at stop lights this was a problem before. throttle response is unchanged on low rpm. yeah my 255 hp gives me a idle reading of 47-50 psi and the stock fpr is 1-1 rissing rate so by 15 psi i have 63-65 psi of fp.

i forgot to mention this is all with out a timming control or an Intercooler.

excellent.

hopefully my 460's will be here soon. glad to hear you got them working!

pretty damn cool. that car must haul ass even though the small 16g is just waking up at 14psi. maybe try a bigger nozzle?

hah, sweet man.

how much is the work is the S-AFC doing? Good idea pulling the FMU, those injectors shouldn't need more than 50psi to do their job.

You're tweaking to run higher than 14 psi? :eek5:

If you hit another wall (like at 18 lbs :eek:) think about an I/C? Just curious.

Getting 460s to work is sweet. Nice!!

he should be fine with WI.

the safc is at -23 at 800 and then i have it gradualy ramping up to 0 by 3200 and then up to +20 past 4500 as by there i have 13-14 psi. i will probably need to turn up my pump pressure or get a progressive from WOT. hopefully by spring i will have a dual feed fual rail thanks BRG that came in today os i have another project.

i forgot to mention thanks guys if it hadnt been for this site and m.net i would still be a slow loud NA. but faith steped in and i seen andy running 330's with rx7 afm and ccpull runing 660's with his clocked ecu, and vafc, and 93mimi you all had a small part in my succes and saved me alot of headache. You guys are awsome.

Not trying to tell him to use an I/C or anything, just curious as to whether it would help north of 14. Mag5 seems to be doing fine without!

I'm pulling for ya, :bigtu: The setup is plenty impressive as is

i wanna see how far i can take it. then get an IC if need be and be more conservative with the WI by that time i hope to have a 6 speed and 3.9 rear and some DR's as well as a evo3 i tend to go to extremes on stuff when i get into it, i gues you could say it is abit of a weakness with me, pushing the limit.

Without anymore tweaking I think I'm limited to about 10psi. Damn RX-7 AFM puts me so rich after 5.5k, although there is a tweak for that. Looks like I'll be squrting as soon as I do a torsen swap, it will make my life easier. At least for now I'll just focus on other things. Like wondering why I have no oil...

Man, that's insane. It just goes to show how little I know about everything in general, and Turbo Miatas in particular.

That setup sounds like a ticking timebomb to me, but see the above about me not knowing jack.

What are you doing for timing?

stock timming set at 10 degrees base. WI is just that effecient granted i run 93 octane but still. it has surprised me and far surpassed my expectations if i didnt mother my car like i do and wasnt so ---- about what gas and other fluids i put in it then i might have abit of a problem but i am very particular about what my B6 gets for fluids and try not to destroy my diff.

timing isnt really an inssue when you have intake temps. like Magna has.

yeah for some reason they stay way low one of these days i am gonna have ot measure them to get a definitive answer.

That's just nuts. I'm impressed.

Respec'!

Update
 

Well it seems that i can get it to idle and have decent off the line performance+ top end but my midrange sucks. The safc isnt fine enough to allow me to adjust my midrange the way i like so i am going to mothball the 460's and proably wire in some resistors on my 300's and run an fpr, ussing the safc to smooth it or sell it depending on what happens. This realy sucks but ohwell geuse there was a reason i havent seen to many people run injectors that big on a miata. at least on mine the driveability isues are to big, ad power delivery isnt as good either. back to the drawing baord.

how do you get away with no timing control?

read #18

https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...5&postcount=18

I love you maaaan.

My WI does a wonderfull job before i showed up on the scene not to many people here even considered WI but now there is even a group buy. oh well i might go exede or emu, and still use the 460's havent decided yet. I am just dissapointed. i almost had it but something keeps on monkeying with it and i dont have enough resolution on the safc to keep it right.

By midrange are we talking about WOT runs @ 3500-5500 or are you just talking about around town driveability? You might try to put the 190lph in there to reduce the fuel pressure a little and you should still have plenty of fuel for the WOT pulls....might give it a try.

you need a jaycar digital fuel adjuster my man.

read these articles
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2418/article.html
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2420/article.html

when my 460's get here i will fit them to the car and see if i can tune my dfa to get it to run nice and smooth. my car is still naturally aspirated but at least it'll give us an idea if this combo can work on your engine or not.

He's already running the SAFC, which, without having read the articles, is probably pretty similar, with regard to functionality.

The jaycar has much finer resolution. If I recall, it has 128 points of adjustment, which I believe is more than the SAFC. The jaycar DFA is cheap if you can build it, but I've heard from those that have made it that it is quite a little bugger to put together right...requires some seriously fine soldering that must be done with tiny iron points.

yeah they are similar but the dfa has much finer resolution than the safc. you can tune it across about 65 discrete load points on the stock miata afm.
makes this quote from the safc neo sales blurb seems pretty laughable:
" The AFC NEO boasts an incredible 16 points of user definable fuel correction"

i had no problems building mine, but i'm pretty handy with a soldering iron i guess.

That's good news fatty! Did you have to change points on your iron, or just use a generic cheapo soldering iron?

how dare you call him fatty.....LOL

Sorry just the " Hey, thats good news FATTY" sounded funny to me. Also note that I have the mental capacity of a -34 year old.

The dfa sounds like a neat toy, if I had the time I would look at building one...

IIRC there used to be an escort (95egt?) that was running 460's w/ just an safc for over 100K miles.. Have you tried playing with both the lo and hi setting of the SAFC? It's been a long time since I set one up, But I do remember getting the middle ranges was kind of finicky. Also if you aren't, you should set up the SAFC on a map sensor, using the TPS input, it will make life a little easier.

heehee.

fatty has been my nickname since i was about 17. so i'm not offended don't worry :)

i'm not even fat!

i have a pretty nice iron. a "micron" variable temperature soldering station. it has a fine tip on it already. but i can't see this kit being too difficult even with a cheap low heat fine tipped iron. just keep the tip clean (dab it on a wet sponge after each use)

Hmmmmmm...another future project

a real tps would help my low boost doesnt have the same power and my WOt stabs at 3K+ until about 4 arent as linear as before either the RR of 1-1 from my stock fpr seems to be throwing it for a loop. if i had a tps i might be better as i could run a partial laod map instead of just tunning the hi map. THanks guyd maybe i'll keep trying to get it right. maybe the 190 will do it or the afm needs some more tweaking now that i have had real 14 psi i dont wanna leave

so what exactly is happening to your AFRs?

For a twenty dollar map sensor...

http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/foolafc.html
http://www.turbosaturns.net/articles/SAFC%20install.htm

one question - what does WI stand for? there are so many acronyms to learn....

Water injection.

If i had a wideband i would know but alas i dont. makes it abit harder to figure out. WI is water injection or Water methanol injection as i run it. And it is awsome. Do you guys realy think using a map sensor to run the safc would be the right idea i figure riging the stock ecu to read map sensor is abit more involved than that.

Given the interest in using the stock ecu with a MAP sensor (the IRTB guys on m.n want it too) I might look into designing something to do this once my thesis is done and the move back to Texas is complete. I havn't got time right now between the race team, thesis, and packing stuff up. PM me in Feb. and I might be able to supply you with an alpha level.

I hope i'm not totally off track but i'm just pulling this together with my experience with turbo Hondas.

You should be able to make 450ccs idle just fine with a afc unit, but trying to tune without a wideband is like flying blind folded. Also adding WI into the equation gets complicated.

Also, one thing to remember is that when using the afc on a map sensor (if you choose that route), ecu is gonna think that you are in a lower load level, which means increased ignition timming. So it might be a good idea to back the base timming down 1 or 2* to be on the safe side.

happy boosting.

Instead of using the TPS on the SAFC for TPS, you would be using it for MAP
V. The stock ecu would still only receive the VAF changes from the SAFC, allowing the SAFC to compensate for MAP V and RPM independently.

i like the map idea i might do that. i got some of the midrange sorted today by telling it i was running a 2 cylinder, this gave me abit more controll on midrange. but means i can only tune to 3700 rpm as my adjustments only allow me to tune to 7400 rpm. Our ecus dont pull time on laod man they just run set maps on rpm. The only way i will pull timming is if i get a ecu that can an then i might try 18 or so btdc and see if i like it. Will those 20$ map sensors be on the right scale to use, or will it matter? what about a 2 bar gm map sensor will that work as well?

magnam do u know how many cc/min your WI system sprays?

176 cc/min at 70 psi i run about 85 or so now 190 or so cc/min With a 25-30% methanol content by vollume

thanx

im puttin a kit together the adbradley cheep way...

im such a redneck rig-o-maniac

You are telling this to the guy from KY? comeon now if i can rig it and figure i can do it most of the time. I might try going back to 4 cyl mode and limit the scale to 5000 rpm i should be in closed loop there anyway. You guys keep on throwing me options i never thought of before.

What part of KY u from?? I used to live in southern IL

water injection, right thanks.

been thinking about looking into that actually.


*edit.

did a search and found your thread about WI. heaps of good info, thanks.

this sounds interesting. so are you saying that you can program some kind of look up table into the safc for the map v rpm = afm value ?

i am about an hour south of Louisville, i juggled the safc setting some more i am getting closer but i definatly need either a WBO2 or a couple of hours of dyno time to get it all right. still wieghing my options on them since 1= the cost of the other in the long term who knows maybe i will be surprised by one on my B day tommorow :bigtu: thanks for the ecuragement+ help guys

Well i just took it to work and back and all i can say is im going back to rrfpr and 1.8's. At this point i cant get it any better and it isnt even as good as the 1.8 setup until 14 psi and even then the horrible midrange, takes alot of fun out of it. I pull fuel a little no better i pull fuel alot a little worse, i add fuel a little no better i change my spring tension on the afm and no change. I am just going to go to the stuff that works and save the 460's for when i get a real em solution. So in summation it works just not all that well. :(

ok i got my 460cc's today. i have a couple of questions for you guys. the clips are a different shape so i need to cut the wires and solder the new clips on. does it matter which wire goes to which plug on the clip? i think i remember reading somewhere that it doesn't matter, but i want to be sure before i dive in.
also, looking at it, it looks like all i need to do is undo the 2 bolts on the fuel rail, lift the rail off, and swap the injectors out. is it as simple as that? any pitfalls i need to look out for ?
if there is a write-up on the net somewhere about this stuff, please point me in the right direction. i don't wanna f*ck this up!

I used bullet connectors so the changeback was easier the ingnition fuel injector harness comes of just back trace it and then unhook the temp sensor and another green sensor. I matched up the wires with the stockers side by side.

bullet connectors are probly a goood idea, yeah. thanks.

alrite i'm gonna have a crack at this tomorrow.

When you add the clips, solder them with jumper wire and leave the stock clips, if you ever want to swap, you'll have two options all ready available/ installed. (like upgrading to 550's).
Are you using ballast resistors?
Watch out for the three nylon/delrin space bushings under the fuel rail, they always seem to disappear when they fall under the car...

ok guys, after a lot of stuffing around today i got them in. man, i wish i had bought some injectors that fit onto the stock connectors. woulda saved a lot of effort.
anyway, she started up , running like a pig of course. did a quick 5 minute tune using the dfa in the driveway. then took the car out on the road, tweaking for about 20 minutes.
after i was happy that i was in the ballpark and the car was running nicely, i took it on a big drive (170 kilometres). went thru city traffic (stop start sorta stuff), open highway, and mountain twisties. the car ran great . i did this drive last week and got 8.8L p/100km fuel economy. i was expecting this to be worse with the new injectors, but this time around i got 8.3L p/100km !
i will continue to tweak the fuel map, but i think i'm 95% there. i must say i'm pretty pleased with myself today.
so anyway magnamx-5, don't give up on those 460cc's just yet mate!! if an idiot like me can get it to work, i reckon you can figure it out :)