dyno measurement debate
 

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very good results!

300nm+ from 3500-7500 is a very wide powerband and i'm sure this thing is tons of fun, congrats!

Very impressive.
Bald choice of turbo.
Care to share pics of how the whole thing is mounted?

How much boost and fuel?E85? :)

the turbo is maxes at 290rwhp / 239rwtq at 13psi? but you made 327rwhp/317rwtq? and at what boost level?



which turbo is it?

MK7 Golf GTI 2.0T EA888 Gen 3
IHI
6/6 Blade Billet Compressor Wheel & 8 Blade Turbine Wheel
42.5 mm Inducer / 54.0 mm Exducer - Compressor
46.8 mm Inducer / 50.4 mm Exducer - Turbine

MK7 Golf R 2.0T EA888 Gen 3
IHI
6/6 Blade Billet Compressor Wheel & 8 Blade Turbine Wheel
45.2 mm Inducer / 58.0 mm Exducer - Compressor
47.4 mm Inducer / 54.7 mm Exducer - Turbine


is it a k03 or k04?

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ive never understood measuring power at the wheels, then completely making up utter BS to give estimated power levels at the flywheel...

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I think they put the clutch in and let the transmission and driveline "brake" the dyno to calculate the drivetrain losses. Who knows how accurate it is.

Id rather just see WHP as measured.

Great Results!

Regarding Dyno numbers, as i have mentioned in other threads. Our WHP in Europe don't correlate with WHP from your dynos. Crank number do. Rule of thump you see somewhere from 10 to 15% drvetrain loss, as we see around 25%

Do you have a link with some info about this? What you're saying doesn't make any sense to me. 1 HP is 1 HP no matter the continent. Same with drive train losses. If we can't directly compare European numbers to US numbers then I'd like to know what is actually causing the difference.

Its BS.
Its a Dyno Dyanamics dyno, is going to measure power the same regardless of its geographic location.

Now you could make the argument that a lot of shops in the US are inflating their numbers so their customers are happier and that European shops dont do the same thing. Basically arguing that there is a cultural difference. But who knows.

It's not a question of infating numbers... Take a stock M4 for example. You dyno it @ 420 RWHP, we dyno @ 380ish Whp. We both rate it @ 465/70 Crank HP.

I guess it's something to do the way we measure drag and other losses.

OP has done a great job and tried something new with good results, so props to him.

Sorry but everyone who pretends that every continent on earth corrects their dynos the same amount or direction is wrong. I got a ban for saying this last time along with a bit of attitude, but there is just no making sense of the ridiculously high euro numbers. You can look at what a 500whp car traps in every area on earth and the truth of the matter is that a '500hp car' is slowest in Europe.

When you buy a dyno the install/delivery team will typically run the tow vehicle on the dyno and then change the global correction settings within the dyno so that it reads the same as every other dyno of the same brand in that brands sales area. Dyno owners whose dyno's read significantly different to other local dynos, whether their dyno is right or wrong, will correct their own dyno to read similarly to the other local dynos so that local customers dont call BS or complain about low results.

Global corrections within the dyno's get fucked with, and you cannot bullshit your way around that. Why do you think this golf turbo'd 1.6L on gasoline makes "330 hp"? It doesnt. The UK has the highest reading dyno's on the planet, pick up an old UK tuner car magazine like MAXPOWER and learn about barely modified Nissan Pulsar GTiRs making 400whp and Z32's with an exhaust and MBC make the same numbers. Go look at a UK facebook page and you'll see all of these subaru TD04 na6's with bandaids make 240hp on 9psi. I believe that it's because the UK has the smallest engines and lowest powered modified cars in the western world, but that's just my guess.

That doesn't mean that OP is a liar, is dishonest or that his car sucks, its just the fact of the matter.


Dann

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The non-bold part of my post was aimed at Full Tilt Boogie not you and I know you aren't from the UK (Hungary, right?), it just happens to be a great example of a place with particularly different dyno figures to the US.

This stuff is being brought up and discussed not because anyone is offended or hates you, but because the thread is about how good your results are and no one can compare your results to theirs for the reasons outlined, it's a US-centric forum and US operators do not setup their dynos like this, no one outside of Europe has any idea what their theoretical flywheel power is. I think you've done great and I admire the work you put in to make it happen and I am glad you're pleased the result, but we are having a back and forth because whether or not the original posts premise is true (this turbo is good on NA6) relies on what correction factors the dyno has.

Dann

Try not to be offended by the other members: no one says you are a liar.
Comparing dyno numbers is always difficult as different correction factors are applied.
You can have an opinion about how these factors are applied and share that, but there is not much sense in discussing what is the 'right' way of doing it.
You showed what a stock 1.8 VVT does on your dyno: that is enough info for everyone to take an educated guess of the correction factors applied to your specific dyno.

I am super curious about the rest of the setup (as I am in Europe too), please upload some more pictures of the setup!
Also curious to know about the boost level: I guess the boost level drops off at higher revs as the power stays pretty flat from 5500-7000 ?

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Dynos are inaccurate one to another for a host of reasons.

Quarter mile results don't lie. Unless the weather is different. Unless the altitude is different. Unless the whatever else is different.

We can't win.

I am aussie, I operate an oldschool analog Dyno Dynamics every week and I certainly don't believe that they are cheating tools, they are tuning tools. The ONLY way to verify a cars performance is with a stopwatch, I know that, you know that.
Everyone here likes you, you're a clever guy who has the same passion as us and the drive to make your goals happen, we are just having a back and forth about how we cannot accurately interpret the results directly off of the sheet and why.

The issue about overall correction is touched on in your attached test.

"All dynos with Shootout accreditation have been calibrated the same accross the board, and should not vary more than 1% when comparing between Dyno Dynamics dynos. "

Can you see how they say that they calibrate the dyno? Even though there are no settings to mess with in shootout the manufacturer itself still calibrates their dynos so they match, and of course this is for a new one, not one with 2500 hours on it. In different regions in the world different manufacturers also have to calibrate the machine before the customer ultimately can tune with it and they typically calibrate it to match expectations in their region. While all dyno dynamics in shootout should read similarly assuming similar strapping techniques this isnt true when comparing brands, and it's a fact that different global regions have corrections which do not line up with other regions, they are fairly close to one another locally but aren't the same as ones on different continents.

Again, I am not saying your car isn't good, just that we can't directly compare by simply glancing at the sheet.

It's a shame that your thread about you being happy with you car has turned into this, but honestly, we're just discussing dynos and their flaws, no one is saying that your results are cheated.

Dann