1.6L - T3 ChinaTarder on MS3X 236hp/235tq
 

Win!

not too shabby for a $170 turbo running OTS parts. Only change from before is running Seq. Fuel. I ran on this same dyno in March and I'm happy with the power it's outputting. Same boost, same setup, like I said, only major change is running seq. fuel and a tightened timing belt ;). It's running the same spark map - just a lot more fine tuning.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...comparison.jpg



Below is a comparison of when I run wastegate, which is around 10psi, and when I flip on my boost solenoid.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...inacharger.jpg

My wategate numbers are very close to my best run at high boost in March...



numbers are corrected 12% to match all my dynojet numbers.

Good spool and good power. Props to you sir.

Gotta love it when you gain 15+whp without raising pressure or increasing timing.

I'm a complete n00b to sequential injection: whats "the fuss" about it? Just more accurate/precise opening/closing times?

Each cylinder only squirts once per cycle and I have a timing map that injects it based on the crank position. More efficiency.


I think these results are pretty good for this cheap ass 50 trim. Judging by the way the torque drops and based on my boost plot, there's not much more it can really output.

My boost plot shows this run around 13.8-14psi on average, then after 6K it slowly rises to 15psi to redline...I do this to try to battle the torque drop, but to no avail.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2..._boostplot.png

disregard the AFR readings, my first run was majorly rich, and it seems my sensor is a good 1 point off from their readings...I was shooting black smoke; I need to recalibrate and figure out why, this happened last time I was there and could explain my sub-par MPG.

And here's why I still haven't removed the Chinacharger. The setup is still more or less the same between these, I've added a cat since then. This run was on MS-I and my Garrett 60 trim turbo. This is the best dyno for comparison since it was the same relative boost level:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...08_garrett.jpg

I'm still curious to refit the garrett parts, but I enjoy all my "low-end" too much. I've never had torque that plots as high as my HP outputs and it's damn fun. Considering I have a stock block and I'm at 96%DC on my 460cc injectors...I think the setup is great.

very decent torque!

Man that looks like a blast to drive. Honestly, I don't think i've seen a miata with equal torque and horsepower, is that something that is not easy to achieve or am I just crazy?

I think that's just on this dyno. Look at his MAT temps, they peak at 150F but are at about 85F at his torque peak! Looks like the dyno run was a very long pull, and it heat soaked his intercooler more than usual. I bet his Gair # went down to .85 on this run.

My 1.6 made 298/296.
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Well then, lol, I stand corrected :x:

no, it's really a function of the smaller compressor wheel and moving the heat efficiency to a lower RPM. You'll see a shape like this with smaller turbos...look at 2554 dynos:

http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...M_Shanghai.png
http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...233hp235tq.png
http://www.bellengineering.net/templ...7_S3_Labor.png

The high intake temps might have effected the top end output negativrly, but probably not by much. I need to see logs from others of the day to see if they had the same high AIT issue if it wasn't just an undersized fan being used or if I really should step up to a bigger intercooler.

It was a 60-65*F day out during that pull, I hardly see over 120*F on a 90*F day going through gears in boost.

What I was trying to say in the burrito place is- did you let the wideband warm up before you calibrated it? When you free air, some widebands will not read full lean until you let it heat up for a minute or two.

Also, on the street, can you feel the power dropping off up high? I'd think it would only be really noticeable in 3rd+ gear.

No, it was a brand new sensor, so it did the free-air cold outside of the exhaust piping. Then it did heater calibration for the first time cold installed it in pipe. That's all you're supposed to do with the lc-1.

I have a feeling it might have been an issue with Gair enrichments. When I got on the street my dash gauge was reading 12.1-11.8:1 in boost on the highway coming home still. When I get around to it I'll reevaluate my grounds and see if there's any discrepancy between my gauge and the MS readings and recalibrate it and whatnot.

It was funny to gain over 10rwhp from just removing fuel.

I don't really feel the power tape off that much since it's the most I've ever outputted in 4 years, but I can tell. I feel the initial torque surge and then the pull to redline just feels normal. Whatever the case I really enjoy this output, I like the mid-range torque for my DD.

I'd love to try to figure out how to get the boost onset to be more linear so the power from 2000-3600RPM is more of a straight line, not a curve up.

turbine specs of the t3 turbo you are running brain?

eBay 50 trim turbo:
compressor: 42mm in. and 60mm ex
turbine: 45mm exducer and 63.5mm inducer.

Garret 50 trim turbo:
compressor: 42mm in. and 60mm ex
turbine: 48.7mm exducer and 59mm inducer.


the turbines are nearly identical. they have nearly the exact same size exducer, I couldn't measure a difference. the profile of the blades looks identical to my eye, the only different is the inducer blades extend an extra 5mm...have no clue if that's good or bad.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0011.JPG

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0010.JPG


The compressor blades measure the same from China to Garrett, however the leading blade on the ebay turbo has more angle of rotation and the blades line up. You can see the gaps between the blades on the garrett turbo (left) where the leading blade doesn't extend as far as the lower blade.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0016.JPG

again, dunno if this hurts or helps.


Casting on the CHRA is identical. Hard to tell the difference. Casts for turbine housing and compressor housing are easy to tell the difference. But they aren't very important.

Oh you know what...I did install that huge muffler between those runs.. I'm pretty sure that's why my boost isn't as linear since I put that 180* bend on the exhaust. This is exactly what Savington noted when he fit it.

whatever the case, it still makes one hell of a 1.6L DD.

ZOMG. I need more praise!

Is that the same turbo eliminator runs? He always refers to it as "50 trim".

he has a t3/t4 50 trim.

i have a t3 50 trim difference of about 11mm.

Yeah, I feel like I need more of this in my life. I may be in touch for an upgrade :brain:

i hope this is a joke....

sounds like those kids who freak when they lose at WOW or something

nope. i need constant praise. i want an 11 page long thread full of plot twists and heartbreak. and in the end we all learn the hero's path isn't always the path to righteousness.

:p

but seriously wasn't expecting an 11% bump in TQ over my last time to this dyno at the same boost level.

Looks slow.
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it is.

Great numbers scott!

Are you claiming your 11% torque increase is due to sequential injection? What is your duty cycle at the largest torque difference?

It's quite interesting how similar your turbo looks/measures to be to the garrett unit but a big difference in performance.

Just check your Gair # from the datalog, or compare your pw at a particular rpm when on the road, compared to at the dyno. I did this, and found that for a similar ambient temperature, the pw on the road was 12% higher than at the dyno, for the same afr and boost pressure. This is because the intercooler roasts at the dyno. I would expect this to be true for all boosted cars, but your temps are much higher than I have ever experienced (and I am running higher boost), and at your torque peak, your temps look to be fairly low.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion, based on numbers from my car only, and although I went to 3 different dynos this year, (2 mustang and 1 dynojet) this may not be representative of the community as a whole. ie -I welcome your comments...

Your numbers look very good. The car must be a blast to drive.

Hey...if you can't win at FF you might as well have a decent dyno plot...


jk...i got teh gelluz

wow nice numbers! good job!

can you send me a link to the turbo on ebay?

At least your honest about it.

no, but you can find it.

its a 60mm compressor wheel with a 42mm inducer.

if you search like t3 turbo 60mm v-band youll find it.

i cant find it

I just searched exactly what i said, "t3 turbo 60mm v-band," included titles and description, and WOW the 8th item down was this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/T3-Turbo-charger...item2eb16fa95f

+1 curious about this as well.

These results are making me reconsider about going with gt28 chinacharger. And the price difference is a plus.

Should be more fun with a 1.8:drool:

The only changes from the dyno in March to the dyno in Nov were this:

• Tightened my timing belt. (My tensioner was loose and TB had sloop)
• Replaced a 90° bend & 4x9x18" muffler with a three 90° bends & a 5x11x22" muffler. So I actually added restriction.
• Added MS3X and rewired for Seq. Injection and Ignition. (I was running wasted spark on both pulls.)
• Tuned Injection Timing Table.
• Replaced Transmission

Everything else was the same, including the spark and boost map.

I forgot about the tranny swap, I did that at the same time I did the exhaust. That could have easily had an effect on the power output, it was whining like crazy before I removed it and it drives much better since the swap. I pretty much killed my rear, tranny, and block in 2009 at the last dyno day up in DE. I drove 2 hours on a rear end with no fluid. The car never felt the same after that, my transmisson started howling at me and the rings pretty much let go on the dyno. This is why I had poor results with my custom Intake Manifold. I ended up selling it to pay for a new rear end and eventually had to replace the block; the trans was the last piece of the puzzle.


Whatever the case, I'm pretty happy... I would just like to see better low end still, but I simply just need a 1.8L.

Great results! Thanks as always for sharing your info, I hope to get mine to the dyno sometime soon. I am also running sequential fuel injection thanks to the DSM ECU that's calling the shots and have wondered if there's been any power/efficiency gained from that change.

I am running the same turbo and I have the most incredible urge to throw a bigger wheel and compressor housing on it over the winter to see what would happen. I'd hate to lose any of the low end though, it makes the car very enjoyable to drive. Have you ever thought about doing so?

not really. I had a larger wheel before, you can see the comparison on my first few posts: A 60 trim vs. the 50 trim wheel currently.

Since I have a stock motor I'm really limited to my power output, so I wanted to try a smaller turbo to help utilize the most power I can within my power limit. I bought this ebay turbo for shits and giggles to see how it would perform with the intention of swapping my spare 50 trim wheel on my genuine T3 with a Super 60 wheel but found no real reason to pull it off.

Since I drive the car as a DD, for the most part, having more low-end torque is much more enjoyable than useless top-end, especially when I don't want to breach 250rwhp. So a larger turbo will have less low-end grunt and a smaller underpowered powerband.

:brain:

Well said and good to know. I needed talked out of fixing something that ain't broke. It's not typically in my nature to futz with things that are working perfectly, especially when I'm not too keen on getting to the point of breaking driveline components. It's just too damn tempting with these cheap turbos. Thanks again for the info.

My problem is I drive a bunch of local 1.8L setups that make massive TQ down low and it's just so much fun. While having top-end has it's benefits as well, I personally like to max out as much as the curve as I possible can within my ceiling.

I've always been making around 230-240 for years and years, but this is the best the car has ever felt since I'm making over 40 more rear wheel torque at 4K. I might have sacrificed some power over 6K, but I'm hardly up that high and I'm not drag racing either.

You don't want too much torque down low. My FE3T setup made 290 ft/lbs around 4300 rpms and fell flat after that with only 265 hp to hold it up. The tune needed alot of work but it was running out of fuel. It wasn't very fun to drive because I would hit peak power really quick and still have 3000 rpms to go on a curve that took a nose dive. I blame it on the tune though.

Lowend torque is great.
Makes the car feel like a small v8, so easy and effortless acceleration.
If you daily the car and rarely "stretch its legs" so to speak, its hands down a winner.
I'm honestly surprised you haven't gone 1.8 ages ago. They're really cheap and easy, and you of all people could pull off a swap in a weeknight.

Since you replaced your shortblock what like 3 times now? Why haven't you upgraded all this time?

No replacement for displacement;)
Unless you plummeted your timing and went pig rich up top for some insanely retarded reason, I highly doubt it was all about your tune.

Probably never swapped because he always had another bottom end ready to go. The current one was out of my old car when I swapped in the semi built motor that I pwnt after the dyno day if I remember correctly. His was on its last leg with mysteriously disappearing oil, rican style, and I just happened to be getting rid of a good to go bottom end.

You also left out the part where scott is a jew and is to cheap to buy a 1.8 manifold and downpipe.

Yes, I do even recall him saying words almost like that as well. Probably even using that very adjective.

Took the words right out of my mouth he did. I got more important things to spend money on...like welfare checks.

how much power you guys think i can get form t his turbo? i bought the same one and i have a 99. looking to be boosted within the next 2 months or so. :drool: