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1994, GT2554r, Low Numbers?
3 Attachment(s)
Been using the car right now for a couple thousand miles and several autocross's on the current tune.
Had a baseline dyno pull done and I feel like my numbers are very low. The dyno operator said it was probably due to the ignition timing. AFR's were rich about 10.9 all the way through in boost on dyno and from wideband. (I will lean the tune up a bit.) The tune is all road tuning done with Tunerstudios. Attached is the current tune on the car and the dyno results. Setup: 1994 Miata 1.8L Stock Engine FM2 Kit FM Intercooler 3" FM Turbo Exhaust w/Cat. GT2554r @ 14psi peak (3700ish rpm) then down to 12psi all the way to redline Grimspeed MBC Innovate MTX-L Wideband O2 RX8 Yellow Top Injectors MS3PNP Stock ignition System 93 Octane 5 Speed Results: 177whp in 4th gear 169whp in 3rd Gear (Dyno Operator chose this) Outside Temp: 92F @ 60% Humidity Beltsville, MD Infinite Speed and Performance Any suggestions on whats up? Attachment 229898 |
Have you compression tested the motor yet?
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I made a thread exactly like this with the first miata I turbo'd. Someone told me to advance my timing 4 degrees in boost and report back. I load a new tune, pull out of my neighborhood, roll in the gas, and my clutch lets go. You get some serious power from properly tuned timing, and it looks to me like you've got plenty of safety built into that tune timing wise.
Somewhere out there is a "give me all your timings" thread probably from pre-2010 that had some great info and timing tables, but I can't find it now. I dug up an old dyno run I made on 93 octane, bigger turbo than you, and higher compression (nb pistons): https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...0-19psi-62855/ I'm sure you can dig up others on the site to get some input on how far advanced you can safely go. Datalogging a pull in virtual dyno, then another with +2 degrees of timing from you're current tune would probably be a good start to see what power does. I suspect you'll be plesantly surprised. *I assume no responsibility for vented blocks as a result of my terrible advise, but I've yet to blow my own motor* |
Check timing (cam and ignition), Check compression, Check exhaust restriction, Check for boost leaks.
As in: Were lazy and didn't time your MS3 with a timing light? Did you recently do a "preventative timing belt job" Did you nuke your ringlands from running too much nos, and now mad scientist jessie and I have to tear it down and replace those piston rings you just fried? Did you nuke your cat from running that ridiculously rich AFR? My car shoots 2 foot flames if it gets that rich. Damn I need a flex fuel sensor. Did you check for any number of places it could leak after your boost is being measured? |
Jeez that timing map is awful. the fuel map is somehow worse. your AFR table is the worse I've ever seen.
surprised it made it to the dyno... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0137691310.png this is doing you no favors either: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ae790b1693.png |
Originally Posted by Forrest95M
(Post 1429492)
Have you compression tested the motor yet?
Before I turbo'd, it had great numbers across all 4 cylinders. Haven't had any indication of loss of compression. (No smoke from exhaust,No oil burning whatsoever, Good idle/ Vaccuum Readings.)
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas
(Post 1429537)
Check timing (cam and ignition), Check compression, Check exhaust restriction, Check for boost leaks.
As in: Were lazy and didn't time your MS3 with a timing light? Did you nuke your cat from running that ridiculously rich AFR? My car shoots 2 foot flames if it gets that rich. Damn I need a flex fuel sensor. Did you check for any number of places it could leak after your boost is being measured? No Cat on the car and no flames either from what I am able to see. Boost is measured off a nipple on the intake manifold.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1429612)
Jeez that timing map is awful. the fuel map is somehow worse. your AFR table is the worse I've ever seen.
surprised it made it to the dyno... this is doing you no favors either: The dyno operator also said the timing was most likely the issue by the shape of the graph. Is the left timing map your timing map? After reading the Injector Timing Table thread and it seems that to be able to properly adjust it will need to be done while on a dyno. With its current default setting how much does it effect the performance? Car surprisingly runs well I guess driveability wise and its done trips from Annapolis to Virginia and back with an autocross in between without a problem. Currently picked up a used netbook (two laptops have gone down already) that I have been able to tweak the tune quite a bit (basically everything) and the butt dyno feels a bit better. I can't post the new tune file right now since the network I am on won't allow for the netbook to be connected to it. |
you're telling it to finish the injection at 90° -- that's halfway through the intake stroke. That means there may not even be fuel available when the intake starts opening, depending on how long your squirts are.
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Originally Posted by CBMiata
(Post 1429646)
Not since the dyno baseline.
Before I turbo'd, it had great numbers across all 4 cylinders. Haven't had any indication of loss of compression. (No smoke from exhaust,No oil burning whatsoever, Good idle/ Vaccuum Readings.) Base timing was set correctly when I installed the MS3. No Cat on the car and no flames either from what I am able to see. Boost is measured off a nipple on the intake manifold. Yea, I figured the timing map wasn't that good after I saw the numbers it put down. The dyno operator also said the timing was most likely the issue by the shape of the graph. Is the left timing map your timing map? After reading the Injector Timing Table thread and it seems that to be able to properly adjust it will need to be done while on a dyno. With its current default setting how much does it effect the performance? Car surprisingly runs well I guess driveability wise and its done trips from Annapolis to Virginia and back with an autocross in between without a problem. Currently picked up a used netbook (two laptops have gone down already) that I have been able to tweak the tune quite a bit (basically everything) and the butt dyno feels a bit better. I can't post the new tune file right now since the network I am on won't allow for the netbook to be connected to it.
Originally Posted by CBMiata
(Post 1429113)
3" FM Turbo Exhaust w/Cat. |
If brain didn't post it above, I'd use the settings from one of his base maps for your tune. Timing, injector, etc.
Where did your map/tune come from? |
i also kinda doubt the base timing was set correctly and ending up with exactly 0 trigger angle...
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Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas
(Post 1429673)
Why I though you had a cat:
I can't view MSQs at work, but if brain says it is a wreck, well, there is your problem.
Originally Posted by ridethecliche
(Post 1429688)
If brain didn't post it above, I'd use the settings from one of his base maps for your tune. Timing, injector, etc.
Where did your map/tune come from?
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1429692)
i also kinda doubt the base timing was set correctly and ending up with exactly 0 trigger angle...
I'll definitely redo that. Could this possibly be why the current ignition timing map hasn't caused any driveability issues? Just got lucky? Found out I'll be getting a lot of free time this Friday so I'm going to try to schedule some dyno time so I can properly set things up. Hopefully my clutch foot heals in time (hurt it last night...) so I can drive over there. I'll be sure to post the tune/results. Thanks for the quick responses yall. |
You could have gotten lucky for many reasons, but I think the safest thing to do is run ones of brain's timing and injector maps after rechecking base timing.
You may even just want to start from scratch using one of his maps because they're pretty conservative while being a solid starting point. You'll likely need to change fueling etc anyway, so might as well start fresh and use VEAL again for a drive hitting the different loads and then see where that puts you. It shouldn't take too long and it will be far less frustrating than trying to figure out why some random map you found isn't working... |
The safest thing to do, is, get this.......I know this is gonna be a huge shocker to you rhidetheklit, TUNE THE CAR!!
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^
This. And as a general rule, don't take advice from the hidden clit. Rhoid, you give advice as if you knew what you were talking about. But you don't. |
I wish I could get the site to take every single post he makes giving "advice" in any other thread, and post it into his own build thread, lol
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:rofl:
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Do as I say, not as I do.
Tell me again exactly where what I did was wrong? He found a random map and he's running it. Brains maps are a far better place to start. But yeah, I should probably take my own advice sometimes lol.
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1429800)
I wish I could get the site to take every single post he makes giving "advice" in any other thread, and post it into his own build thread, lol
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You repeat what people have said to you for your specific situation, but it doesn't always pertain to the person you are repeating it to. Because you don't have the basic understanding, this may fly and get you a degree in an academic setting. Not around here.
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Originally Posted by sonofthehill
(Post 1429817)
You repeat what people have said to you for your specific situation, but it doesn't always pertain to the person you are repeating it to. Because you don't have the basic understanding, this may fly and get you a degree in an academic setting. Not around here.
One is a self congratulatory circle jerk, where everyone congratulates themselves for proving others wrong, but more rarely for proving themselves right. The other calls out those that are lazy, but endeavors to teach those that make an effort and stick to it even after discouraging results. Many of you seem to despise the former. Unfortunately it seems like many of you have more in common with it than you think. I tend to be self deprecating because I don't have anything close to an ego about anything I do. I do draw a line between insults and humor though. Do with that information what you will. Ps: your comment regarding academic training belies your lack of understanding on how the sciences are taught and tested. Just and fyi. |
whoah. big words....
:giggle: |
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