1999 Forged Bottom FM2 w/ MS1 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:30 PM   #1
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Thumbs down 1999 Forged Bottom FM2 w/ MS1

Car did not make the power it should, first pull was 187 whp, after a few more pulls and timing/fuel adjusting we got 223 whp at about 13psi seen here:



Engine ran fine, no smoking or weird noises, turbo seemed fine. AFR's were high 11's at full boost. Some kind of restriction or something, IC maybe? It's old style FM intercooler setup with pipes going all over. I can post an msq and log later.
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1999 Forged Bottom FM2 w/ MS1-tim-grey-1.jpg  
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:34 PM   #2
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Top end looks real weird, especially for that turbo. Interested in logs, please!

My MSM with a smaller turbo pulled all the way to redline with no drop off. To 7000rpms, at that. (And made 245whp on about the same boost level as you)

Motor stayed at stock compression?
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #3
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9:1 compression ratio Supertech's, yeah it was a pretty disappointing day.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:40 PM   #4
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This is consistent with what I've seen off most tunes on this turbo set-up (a bunch of FM2's in Austin made 210-220whp on a DynoDynamics). Turn the boost up.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:47 PM   #5
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Torque drops off really too much after aprox 5200rpm...are you controlling the VICS?
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:49 PM   #6
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you have something going on at 6300 rpm that probably could be corrected to flatten the torque back out. Other than that, it's awesome that a bit of dyno tuning picked up 35 hp. Remember, the dyno is just a tuning tool--You're not racing on it! A car that makes 83 whp on one dyno might make 105 whp on a different dyno on the same day. I didn't pull those numbers out of the air; I was there (stock Miata, Mustang vs Dynojet).
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:02 PM   #7
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retard intake cam one tooth. then you'll see top end!
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:02 PM   #8
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Alright, compression might explain some of the lower numbers, but doesn't explain the early power drop-off.

Wonder if it's because of the comparative archaic nature of MS1 vs. more modern options.

Is the head healthy? Did you go through it at the same time you went through the bottom end?
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Wonder if it's because of the comparative archaic nature of MS1 vs. more modern options.
It shouldn't be. All ECUs do essentially the same thing- they spray fuel and command spark. Most of the development work that's happened in recent years is about running accessories, accepting a wider variety of trigger inputs, tuning for emissions, etc.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
It shouldn't be. All ECUs do essentially the same thing- they spray fuel and command spark. Most of the development work that's happened in recent years is about running accessories, accepting a wider variety of trigger inputs, tuning for emissions, etc.
True... but does MS1 have the same map resolution as the later variants? (Probably shouldn't matter just in top end only, but i'm grasping at straws here)

(Caveat: I have no direct experience with MS1 other than keyboard jockeys facepalming when it's mentioned in recent times with the release of MS2 and MS3.)
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:23 PM   #11
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What type of dyno is this?
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Alright, compression might explain some of the lower numbers, but doesn't explain the early power drop-off.

Wonder if it's because of the comparative archaic nature of MS1 vs. more modern options.

Is the head healthy? Did you go through it at the same time you went through the bottom end?
[email protected] talking ****. MS1 cars with a good tune run great. I suspect the lowered static compression and turbine restriction is part of the cause.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:57 PM   #13
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[email protected] talking ****. MS1 cars with a good tune run great. I suspect the lowered static compression and turbine restriction is part of the cause.
AHEM.

Completely dissatisfied "Hydra-guy." I can't stand this damn thing. Unfortunately, i bought the car with it already installed. But like i said, i was grasping at straws since i have no hands-on experience with MS1.

What turbine restriction are we talking about, though? This turbo should pull to redline pretty good. (At least, looking at FM's dynos of the same turbo.)

Last edited by concealer404; 08-19-2011 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:01 PM   #14
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I believe that is a Dynocom located at Advance Racing Technology in Sarasota, Fl

So wait are you saying my little 1.6 at 11psi makes more power on the same dyno.... Yeah something is up. we need to swap out that intercooler and piping!
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:06 PM   #15
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That is a small turbo anyways, you didnt expect it to make THAT much did you? pretty on par with numbers you should make.

Lets see your timing map. Assuming your AFR's are on par through the pull.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
True... but does MS1 have the same map resolution as the later variants? (Probably shouldn't matter just in top end only, but i'm grasping at straws here)
Actually, the MS1's lower resolution matters only at very low loads, which is why I mentioned "tuning for emissions".

The MS1's native fuel resolution (assuming the old, non-HiRes code) is 0.1ms per step. At idle, that represents a significant proportion of the total injector on-time. At high load, it's utterly insignificant.

You can make the same top-end power with an MS1 as you can with a Hydra or an MS3. The core differences lay in idle emissions, idle stability with A/C, etc.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:09 PM   #17
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Were you running this turbo elbow in your pull?



Getting a true 3" exhaust made will help you out. The cast 90 thing above will hurt.


but you still need a bigger turbo.


Edit.... also that elbow going into the cheated bend at the flange followed by a cat?



Your numbers are good for your setup.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:31 PM   #18
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If that is your exhaust, need to get that redone if you want more power. Shlammed is right all those tight or cheated bends make turbo not happy.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:35 PM   #19
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Oh i couldn't see the pics before. That exhaust needs to go.
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Torque drops off really too much after aprox 5200rpm...are you controlling the VICS?
All VICS hardware is removed and holes welded, otherwise stock intake manifold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Alright, compression might explain some of the lower numbers, but doesn't explain the early power drop-off.

Wonder if it's because of the comparative archaic nature of MS1 vs. more modern options.

Is the head healthy? Did you go through it at the same time you went through the bottom end?
Head was cleaned up, tolerances checked, resurfaced, new valve seals, valves lapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
What type of dyno is this?
Dynocom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokool View Post
I believe that is a Dynocom located at Advance Racing Technology in Sarasota, Fl

So wait are you saying my little 1.6 at 11psi makes more power on the same dyno.... Yeah something is up. we need to swap out that intercooler and piping!
Yeah I actually ordered IC pipes yesterday and I've got that big *** IC from the group buy on here YEARS ago, going to be a bitch to fit it with A/C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
Were you running this turbo elbow in your pull?
image


Getting a true 3" exhaust made will help you out. The cast 90 thing above will hurt.


but you still need a bigger turbo.


Edit.... also that elbow going into the cheated bend at the flange followed by a cat?
image


Your numbers are good for your setup.
Yes, all the exhaust parts are the same as those pictures, FM 2.5".

Edit: Cat is gutted lol.
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