99 1.8 - Subaru TD04- High 12s 1/4 mile pass
 

Been meaning to post this for a while now, numbers are flywheel

99 1.8 NB
Stock long block
2.5" Downpipe, stock cat and center to 2.5" Cobalt silencer
Subaru TD04-13T
650cc EV14s
MS2 Enhanced by MSLabs
20% Methanol premix in the fuel tank
Self tuned

Boost target is 12psi up to 5000rpm then tapers upto 15psi by 6000rpm

Attachment 230534

Best 1/4 Mile last year was a 13.41 @ 106mph, no idea on the power but an educated guess on 210-220flywheel based on the 10.5psi boost target that day

I'd make a guess of about 230bph, or around 200-210whp based on a 106 trap speed. Unless your car is significantly lightened.

Great work out of the td04, torque looks super usable too!

Hit the local drag strip again today

Came away with 3 runs @ 13.0x and a PB of 12.91 @ 111mph

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3f1874f1b4.jpg

Very nice! You are trapping faster than me and I am pretty sure I have about 250 dyno jet WHP.
You can definitely pick up a few tenths in your launch.

Fitted a 2.5" cat and exhaust and set my base timing two years late.

First run in the graph is with the exhaust second with the extra timing but some boost pulled below 6k RPM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...04ed4a1098.jpg

Help me understand what I'm seeing here and it n your other thread.
You are running:

standard TD04L-13T
99RON which is roughly equivalent to US 94 Octane fuel
Making nearly 300 WHP
Stock Bottom End
99 head with VICS
9.5:1 compression ratio

Please correct any errors above.

EDIT: What was outside or MAT temps, and are the results uncorrected?

Correct in above other than fuel, it's 99RON + 20% Methanol making it 102RON

Ambient temps of 16c, MAT 35c. I can't remember uncorrected figures but correct were to DIN standard.

I'm as surprised by the power its making as much as you are, I can only attribute that down to Tyr use of methanol (as close as I can get to E85 here)

I'd call it flywheel power but the base line of 278bhp with a, 111 trap speed is in line with what you would call whp

Eh I don't know bout 280-300whp, here's a compressor map

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...afa656fd9f.jpg

Not disagreeing with you 18psi.

​I've already studied the compressor map enough to know 275whp should be the absolute most they'll do, hence my thread asking about 19T hybrids.

Methanol does carry an additional oxygen molecule and that does make up 20% of my fuel

The original 279whp figure ties in with my 1/4 mile trap speed, I'm back at the drag strip on Saturday to we will see what happens to trap speeds. 113mph should be expecting at 300whp

Exactly. I think 250 WHP is all this Turbo should be able to produce, regardless of pressure ratio. Or 270-280 bHp. That's why I was thinking possibly a cold day and I corrected numbers.

My understanding is that the oxygen in the methanol is not available for combustion with the gasoline. It's not like NOS.

It would appear that you do a great job in the quarter mile.

Pics of build? I don't find a build thread.

I'll sort a build photo or two later in the week as it's not stored at home, I've never done a build thread.

The numbers I have no idea on, there's always a debate between UK and US dyno figures. I'd call it 300bhp flywheel as that's how dynos are operated here

Honestly it doesn't really matter since we all know that your trap speed is really good for that turbo, and dyno plots can vary so wildly.

I'd love to see pic of your time slip, curious about the rest of that data.

Hmmm, UK, is that some sort of metric 1/4 mile ;)

Be careful, I think my rods started to bend when I ran high octane and trapped 110. My car was never as fast again after that.

It is, a metric quarter mile is 403 meters ;)

I've got two events at the drag strip this month then that's it for the rest of the year, once those are done I'm going to head back to the dyno and play around with boost targets to bring the torque back to a sensible 210-220ft/lbs until I fit a set of runs and run allofit

In for trapping 113 and showing the world a tiny little TD04 can do 300whp though

Not sure where you are getting your HP to trap speed numbers.

A quick search turned up this: Speed vs HP

Which yields this:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f45991b40c.png

Which makes more sense to me. And I think this is a rough attempt at bhp.

EDIT: But the car is fun, yes?

Using this calculator

0-60, 0-100 & 1/4 Mile Calculator :: TorqueStats Modified

Car weighs 1120kg with me sat in it.

The car is immensely fun, and as we all know dyno figures can be debated until we are all blue in the face. Its bad enough comparing dyno numbers from different dynos in the same country let alone on different continents

lol 113 would be nuts. I'd love to see that.

buddy of mine was trapping 118 on a stock long block BP for at least a few track trips before it finally exploded, so I know it's possible on stock rods as long as you do it just right, but I don't think I've ever seen a td04-13t trap 113 before. that's gotta be some sort of record if you pull that off

I see no reason why I won't pick up the extra 1.5mph on the new tune there's an average of 10-20hp more between 5k and 6k minus the weird 5800ish dip. Then peak power is up 20hp and carried for another 700-800rpm

I agree, but I've too often seen theory get crushed by reality at the track :)

Well today was a total fail. two passes (nothing noteworthy) and then it rained all day

Oh well, at least nothing broke.

Yea thats always an upside,although I did manage my best 60ft of 2.02

Yep, better launch. Good deal.

Another good day/bad day deal at the drag strip, wind speed/direction seems to have a big effect on my ET and MPH, at least I know its not a problem with the car because a couple of buddies are losing 4-5mph and at couple of tenths too.

Cut my first 1.9 60ft though

Left lane for me
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...42b2b07497.png

My car was never the same after I trapped 110. That being said, headwind does affect our tiny cars a ton, more than the v8 boys. Almost always a good headwind at my local track.
Congrats on getting under 2 second 60'.

Impressive. So close to 12's.
What is your launch method?
What does boost profile look like?

I'm going to run mine at the strip this winter on the vlad mega tune to see what I can trap, but I'm running a 1.6. Vald you think I can break 110mph? This has me curious and excited, and half hard.

Glad to see more td04 13ts around as there was only 2 others (that I could find on forums) besides dnmakison and I when I started my build.

I think Karter74 is going to install his old set-up in a new car.

They are more popular on MX5's in Europe and Australia, apparently.

I doubt it, but of course it doesn't hurt to have goals. I was honestly surprised to see 111mph, and think it's going to be hard to even repeat, much less beat, even with OP's 1.8 setup.

Just about every "budget" built turbo MX5/Miata here uses a TD04. Manifolds are more common and turbos are cheap used from WRXs

Boost targets look like this
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...65cfdc2b23.png

This is the slip from my 12.9 earlier in the year. Notice the 14mph tail wind compared to this weekends 10mph headwind

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...393ce87531.png

I'm back at the dyno from my OP in November too.

Car is on Yokohoma AD08R which I run at 16psi at the strip. On board footage below



Edit: a tenth faster upto the 1/8 mile this weekend but a tenth slower by the 1/4 than my 12.9 pass

Think I've possibly figured out why I haven't been able make another pass in the 12s. I've noticed I've got a slightly seized rear caliper.

But is that sticky caliper enough for me to lose 3 tenths (0.15s faster by at the 330ft, 0.06s faster at the 1/8 but 0.15s slower at the 1/4)

don't think so. if it was slowing you down it would do it always

I'm completely stumped then.

More power, AFRs haven't moved, boost holds solid, shifting at the same RPM. I just don't seem to carry the time for the second half of the track

Unless you catch another tailwind...

Well this may go someway towards explaining my "slow" 1/4 miles now. Was expecting at least 280hp on this particular dyno

Attachment 230532

Not yet looked into the root cause yet but I'm suspecting head gasket as it was cruising between 5-10 Celsius hotter than normal. Wideband was going nuts too, very bouncy readings quite frequently flicking from 13:0 to 17:0 with no lean/rich stumbles you'd expect with it doing that.

Whipple SC mustang was a bit of a shoe once they managed to get it to run without trying to blow the tyres off

You probably bent a rod or two

​​​​​I'm expecting to find a couple. Going to do a compression test and crudely measure rod lengths through the spark plug holes in the week.

Couldnt hear any usual noises through my Det cans on the dyno though

det is one thing. bending them from sheer cyl pressure is another, and won't show any signs of det, probably cause there isn't any. you simply might be exceeding their capacity

been there, done that, got the bent rods to show for it :)

Logic was you'd hear something due to the odd side loading on the pistons or some sort of imbalance to the difference in interia

Can almost hear them bend when comparing the 1st and 2nd dyno pulls, should have had them overlaid really
Attachment 230531

Missing your point.
1) Run 1 should be displayed on the left, unless you are in Asia.
2) Max HP and Torque are the same between the 2 runs.
3) Largest difference is that run 1 made torque at 3K: run 2 at 4K
4) Tuner changed scales, making run 2 look much weaker.

1) that was just my stupidity when I screenshotted the two PDFs side by side
2 ) correct, this confuses me
3) Yep, 80ft/lbs is a big difference I need to double check the datalog to confirm boost was equal on both
4) I was with the dyno operator in the car, ramp rate was not changed at all.

There was another pull made after these two with the same power/torque/torque curve as run 2, the car was loaded back on the dyno 4 hours later and another 2 pulls made (With a lower ramp rate) and the power/torque/power curve were exactly the sane

Pulled the head on saturday

Rods on 2 and 3 confirmed bent .

Looks like what we call 260ft-lbs flywheel is enough

Long overdue update on this one. 12 months since the original damage and back to the strip. Cold day (14c/57f) and no wind

One decent pass, followed by an awful 60ft and a missed 2-3 shift then rained out for the day

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...916e6c80b0.jpg

Pulled the head, dropped a DTI on the block and measured piston heights at TDC, 2 and 3 were about 1.5mm lower in the bore. Very very minimal bend to the rods when I pulled them out.

Swapped in a used NB long block, retuned in on a Dyno to make a bit less torque and called it a day

So you're trapping 109 on another stock block? that's really good congrats

Yep :) I guess enough power to trap 109-110mph is as much as reliably possible on a stock block

Revisited the tune on this as I swapped to MS3 after the last time at the strip and have also swapped over to a MAF




First up comparison vs last time the car was on the same dyno, Red trace is the latest tune


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...30935ff2ca.jpg

And a Wastegate boost (~145kpa MAP) vs Max effort tune

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e0038c24c1.jpg

Nice to see you back.

I've been lurking. Started a new job back in November which eats up a lot of time

Tuning the MS3 on a MAF highlights really well how this "little" TD04 is right on the limit of its flow capability

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...62efb5cb73.png

Hit the strip today with a sole focus on the launch. So spent the day messing with a few things.

The two 2.0x 60fts were leaving at 3200RPM with the car making close to 7psi on 2 step.

Missed a shift on the 4th pass, the two 2.6s the car bogged trying to use timed retard after launch on MS3. Boost was around 10-12kpa down compared to normal over 5500rpm

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f8f0885036.jpg

Not bad. It takes more EBC duty to maintain boost up top. I am typically between 4 and 4500 rpm on a launch under 2 seconds, but there are a lot of variables. Your car is pretty quick, probably eat most street driven cars.

I'd dampened the closed loop response a little a tame some overshoot using flat shift and hadn't gotten around to getting the bias table corrected to suit.

Just checked your thread and it looks like you seem to carry a lot more pace through the back half of the track

I understand.

Yeah, my car is fast as hell, but I'm on really crappy tires. It messes with people during elimination sometimes. They slow down because they think I am far enough behind. My car is fast at the top of the track. My bottom end is forged, so I can push it a ton.

60ft was balls. ET not so much

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...77fb0e2e70.jpg


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9008ab30d6.jpg

great work :likecat:

What boost were you running on the strip? And the rods seem intact this time? I’m hoping for similar numbers, if I ever get set up.

14.5psi peak boost. Rods seem to be holding up absolutely fine, I've put 25 passes on the engine at this power level, trap speeds haven't changed at all. Its making a hair under 8psi on a 4k RPM launch

I don't think you'll realistically see the same power numbers on pump fuel.

Here's an MLV plot of manifold pressure vs RPM and TPS

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...34bec014bd.png