anyone know what the msm stock turbo record is?
 

I did some brief searching and couldn't really find much, anyone know what the record is for a BP with a stock MSM turbo strapped to it? And by stock I mean truly stock turbo, none of the upgraded ones. I'm curious to see what it is because I love the response and oem packaging of my setup and plan to improve on it this winter with rods and upgrades on both the intake and exhaust side and see what it will do with a little more boost and some timing added back in, seeing as we had to detune for the sake of the rods.

14psi is about the most boost you'll run on the stock turbo and even then it's pushing it, that's when the OEM manifold tends to crack and you're just pushing hot air.

210-220rwhp is around the max with the usual bolt-ons, injector upgrades and aftermarket ECU.

You don't need to upgrade your rods and pistons - you will need an aftermarket ECU since the stock ECU is crap (dead-spot between 4000 and 4500 rpm where you'll be running lean until it kicks into open-loop mode; beyond 140rwkw the OEM ECU just can't cope and your car will run "rough as guts").

See his sig, we're past 220 with loads left of tuning, 75% stock exhaust, and 12psi.

FM did 240-something on that really weird car a couple years back that had the Elantra tail lights.

Granted, that was on a Rototest and the turbo blew up shortly afterwards, but there you go.

I think the highest I've seen is 235-237 but all the high plots I've seen just seem like a optimistic dyno and not really anything special.
For the most part you seem to already be at the "limit" according to the interwebz.
This is relevant to my interests, proceed :giggle:

pretty sure a local here did 240rwhp with FM bolts on, on a dynojet.

That's what I'd figure. I can't believe we only have 15hp to pick up after tuning the timing, but I guess so. We're at 4* up top to limit torque, and only 6* at redline to keep it down.

I'm honestly still kinda stumped over those timing numbers to be honest.
You guys sync'd the timing correctly right? Or maybe throwing a cas on the newer bp might throw things off?

I mean that's less than "locked timing", which supposedly melts stuff from being so retared.
I've seen 4* run in the midrange on a 400+ bp running a 35r snail at 25+psi, which made sense to me, but this just doesn't add up.

Ask FrankL

Ill let Josh answer the timing question, however I can say that the CAS has been deleted and the car is now using the MSM cam and crank sensors. I think that at 14psi, with a proper 3 inch exhaust with a wastegate dump and a tune that actually has a bit of timing in it, I should have no issues clearing 250whp if not more.

Yes sync'd with a timing light and yes, CAS. It's now CKP and CMP from the MSM and on a MS2PNP, but we haven't dyno'd it yet, rebuilding with forged rods first.

Timing was set to fixed 10, pulley was set to read 10*. The only thing I can think of would be if we looked at the wrong mark, but that would back fire like crazy and be technically -6 degrees instead of 4, correct? Or would that be 14*?

I always find TDC with wire in the spark plug hole to be sure that the pulley hasnt slipped and that the marks are in fact accurate.

BTW, whatever the stock turbo MSM record is, I hold it. :dealwithit:

Dann

On my '99, ther are 2 marks on the pully (typical). I set 10*BTDC with one of those marks on 10*, and one on 0*. Pretty sure that is the correct method.

Car has a brand new crank pulley on, marks havent slipped

What standalone solution are you guys currently using to achieve your goals?

the numbers posted above were achieved on a gen 1 PNP, we have since upgraded to a gen 2 pnp and hope to have the car tuned and good to go sometime this February/March

Back to the question of possible wrong mark used. If the wrong mark is set at 10*BTDC, then the correct mark would be at 20*BTDC. So, if you did that, then indeed, you were running 10* more than you (and your MS1) thought.

I don't think our timing was off, curly would know better

The timing thing might be legit after all.

I keep digging for more info, and here's another example of relatively low timing and similar torque/power. Though this guy is on e85

Zwoollen's build thread

230/250 on 12psi within 2 degrees through the range overall

Well, I wouldn't actually. I hate the NB dual mark thing.

But if you're referring to our pitiful timing table, we were either accurate and super conservative, or we were spot on for a safe turbo setup.

My 1.6 and a small T25 was at 20* near redline.

The MSM engine was at 6 or 16*. Either way, still conservative.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1426485937
243/248 @15psi

Was that full boost? 100% Duty cycle on the EBC?

No, after 58% at 4500, 70% at 5000, and 85% to redline. After a certain PSI you're stressing the engine and putting a huge amount of stress on the turbo for little gain. That's probably around 12psi for this turbo, but we went to 14 with an occasional spike to 16, and despite our efforts, power wasn't coming up above ~5500rpm, so we weren't going to murder the setup to try and get a more linear dyno plot.

My 1.6 had a similar plot on some shitty 2.5" exhaust, I really think 3" would help him here, but so would a bigger turbo.

Turbo and hot side parts yes, but also intake manifold

Here is someone who claims 254: turbo questions [Archive] - MX-5 Miata Forum

No proof or anything though. Just thought I'd share.

I have no desire to change anything unless turbo or manifold wise, wastegate dump and 3 inch will happen as well as perhaps a Honda I'M at some point. I like the msm manifold, turbo and lines a lot, no need to change it imho

Curly,

Where is the EBC being referenced from?

Look at his funky intercooler setup, it's ~8" from the throttle body.

pictures are blocked at work or I would

I ask because I'm about to install my diy ebc and don't have a port/nipple pre-tb, and was thinking of referencing off the IM and wondering if a 1way check valve would prevent vacuum to the wg can or just run it that way without the valve since pre boost the ebc is at 100% which should be closed.

thoughts?

Off the IM? :nono:

:eek4:

With a 1 way valve wouldn't you just be pressuring the wg line with w/e psi you're running...

In turn, lose boost once you shift gears cause the wg is already open with said trapped pressure?

the ebc has 3 ports and the 3rd vents to atmo but I see where you're going with that, might not be a good idea

Huge no-no. boost will build behind the throttle plate with small amounts of throttle, that'll let it spool to the heavens.

bummer. guess it's time to bust out the welding machine. thanks

Do you mean the supply of boost going to the EBC, and then to the WGA? If you are using Megasquirt for boost control, then isn't the reference IM by definition, and hence the convention of setting up boost and throttle position?

Honest question.

that's what I was getting at: you CAN make the ebc work referenced from the IM, but it sounds like more work with settings and valves possibly than it's worth, and I really don't want to put any vacuum through the wg can of this 72k mile turbo

sorry for off topic, I can make separate thread if this gets cluttered

Boost that Megasquirt sees comes from the IM. This tells the EBC solenoid to open and close. The EBC solenoid is connected from a pre-throttle body boost source (either at the compressor or right before the throttle body) then to EBC then to wastegate.

Correct, he's referring to the ebc plumbed source, not the electrical source from the MS, which is from the manifold.

MS=post tb
EBC/MBC=pre tb

I'll make this a new thread when I'm in front of a computer.

You're probably going to laugh at this, but do you guys have a drag strip in your area?

Yes. ?

Martin needs to take Laz to friday night drags.

...is basically what I was getting at. I know the OR kru doesn't waste time on non-twisty tracks, but if you ever get bored one day...

I play around at the drag strip, and I know curly has gone once or twice. No idea about Martin though, maybe if you ask nicely.

His gas tank needs covering, they threw a fit saying his tank was exposed cause he doesn't have that big panel across the parcel shelf.

Needs carpet again lol.