anyone know what the msm stock turbo record is? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2014, 02:30 AM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 30
Default anyone know what the msm stock turbo record is?

I did some brief searching and couldn't really find much, anyone know what the record is for a BP with a stock MSM turbo strapped to it? And by stock I mean truly stock turbo, none of the upgraded ones. I'm curious to see what it is because I love the response and oem packaging of my setup and plan to improve on it this winter with rods and upgrades on both the intake and exhaust side and see what it will do with a little more boost and some timing added back in, seeing as we had to detune for the sake of the rods.

Last edited by curly; 12-01-2014 at 02:42 AM.
greddygalant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 07:05 AM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 485
Total Cats: 44
Default

14psi is about the most boost you'll run on the stock turbo and even then it's pushing it, that's when the OEM manifold tends to crack and you're just pushing hot air.

210-220rwhp is around the max with the usual bolt-ons, injector upgrades and aftermarket ECU.

You don't need to upgrade your rods and pistons - you will need an aftermarket ECU since the stock ECU is crap (dead-spot between 4000 and 4500 rpm where you'll be running lean until it kicks into open-loop mode; beyond 140rwkw the OEM ECU just can't cope and your car will run "rough as guts").
Lokiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 10:51 AM   #3
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

See his sig, we're past 220 with loads left of tuning, 75% stock exhaust, and 12psi.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 11:02 AM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

FM did 240-something on that really weird car a couple years back that had the Elantra tail lights.

Granted, that was on a Rototest and the turbo blew up shortly afterwards, but there you go.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 11:06 AM   #5
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,165
Total Cats: 2,573
Default

I think the highest I've seen is 235-237 but all the high plots I've seen just seem like a optimistic dyno and not really anything special.
For the most part you seem to already be at the "limit" according to the interwebz.
This is relevant to my interests, proceed
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 12:11 PM   #6
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,809
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

pretty sure a local here did 240rwhp with FM bolts on, on a dynojet.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 12:31 PM   #7
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

That's what I'd figure. I can't believe we only have 15hp to pick up after tuning the timing, but I guess so. We're at 4* up top to limit torque, and only 6* at redline to keep it down.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 12:39 PM   #8
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,165
Total Cats: 2,573
Default

I'm honestly still kinda stumped over those timing numbers to be honest.
You guys sync'd the timing correctly right? Or maybe throwing a cas on the newer bp might throw things off?

I mean that's less than "locked timing", which supposedly melts stuff from being so retared.
I've seen 4* run in the midrange on a 400+ bp running a 35r snail at 25+psi, which made sense to me, but this just doesn't add up.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 01:47 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 1,037
Total Cats: 157
Default

Ask FrankL
TNTUBA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 02:46 PM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 30
Default

Ill let Josh answer the timing question, however I can say that the CAS has been deleted and the car is now using the MSM cam and crank sensors. I think that at 14psi, with a proper 3 inch exhaust with a wastegate dump and a tune that actually has a bit of timing in it, I should have no issues clearing 250whp if not more.
greddygalant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 02:46 PM   #11
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Yes sync'd with a timing light and yes, CAS. It's now CKP and CMP from the MSM and on a MS2PNP, but we haven't dyno'd it yet, rebuilding with forged rods first.

Timing was set to fixed 10, pulley was set to read 10*. The only thing I can think of would be if we looked at the wrong mark, but that would back fire like crazy and be technically -6 degrees instead of 4, correct? Or would that be 14*?
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 07:32 PM   #12
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

I always find TDC with wire in the spark plug hole to be sure that the pulley hasnt slipped and that the marks are in fact accurate.

BTW, whatever the stock turbo MSM record is, I hold it.

Dann
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 09:17 PM   #13
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,695
Total Cats: 266
Default

On my '99, ther are 2 marks on the pully (typical). I set 10*BTDC with one of those marks on 10*, and one on 0*. Pretty sure that is the correct method.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 02:44 AM   #14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 30
Default

Car has a brand new crank pulley on, marks havent slipped
greddygalant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 07:53 PM   #15
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 42
Total Cats: -9
Default

What standalone solution are you guys currently using to achieve your goals?
ITOzann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:04 PM   #16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 30
Default

the numbers posted above were achieved on a gen 1 PNP, we have since upgraded to a gen 2 pnp and hope to have the car tuned and good to go sometime this February/March
greddygalant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 10:21 PM   #17
Elite Member
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 2,695
Total Cats: 266
Default

Back to the question of possible wrong mark used. If the wrong mark is set at 10*BTDC, then the correct mark would be at 20*BTDC. So, if you did that, then indeed, you were running 10* more than you (and your MS1) thought.
DNMakinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2015, 12:23 AM   #18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 737
Total Cats: 30
Default

I don't think our timing was off, curly would know better
greddygalant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2015, 12:31 AM   #19
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,165
Total Cats: 2,573
Default

The timing thing might be legit after all.

I keep digging for more info, and here's another example of relatively low timing and similar torque/power. Though this guy is on e85

Zwoollen's build thread

230/250 on 12psi within 2 degrees through the range overall
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2015, 12:38 AM   #20
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Well, I wouldn't actually. I hate the NB dual mark thing.

But if you're referring to our pitiful timing table, we were either accurate and super conservative, or we were spot on for a safe turbo setup.

My 1.6 and a small T25 was at 20* near redline.

The MSM engine was at 6 or 16*. Either way, still conservative.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re-Spring Tein FLEX or replace? Mazdaspeeder Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 21 10-03-2015 07:45 PM
Upgrade my MSM coilovers springs or KW ? elior77 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 14 09-17-2015 10:20 PM
MSM Exhaust Manifold Pressure Test slmhofy DIY Turbo Discussion 11 09-09-2015 12:46 AM
E-Manage Base Maps faviles5566 ECUs and Tuning 0 09-04-2015 12:50 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 AM.