Dyno Fail
 

Sheet. Numbers. Sorry no plot

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...fail-imtal-jpg

Blinker fluid was low. Now go install the log viewer.

So, where's the damned dyno sheet as promised Fae? You did admit you got in one 36psi pull.

.xls are nice and all, but they require *work* to convert to a viewable dyno sheet.

Your answer: No plot - no help.

the people wanted dyno results. numbers. graphs. not datalogs.

I've seen this before -- the extra fuel is hiding in your frame rail.

:bowrofl:

Sounds like Faefae needs to cut his framerail apart to find him some fuel.

That can't be. It would have run out of the sawed-open gap.

so there really isn't a dyno plot.

Please ban his retarded self right now.

I come on a dyno fail thread and theres neither a dyno print or a car falling off/ blowing up, OP needs banning

I am telling something is up with Eds dyno. I will not get back on it.

noban

poop

Where's the dyno sheet, Faefae?

We were promised a dyno sheet, and you didn't deliver. Let's see the sheet, or is it true that you only made 215 rwhp/195 rwtq?

Fae so what did the dyno actually show anyways?

Agreed noban

At least show what the car did, having running problems, and on a dyno that is "in question".

Upon further investigation, that is what we could find in the dyno video.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344984073

We have to assume these numbers unless there is proof otherwise.

OP I suggest a bigger turbo. :giggle:

I wasted my time on this?

Someone should virtual dyno his logs and see what those say. Otherwise Min has till midnight eastern time to post a dyno graph from yesterday or he will be banned again.

Fine. Here. I agreed to do it so here you go.

No, I don't have a plot. Do it yourself. AFR and boost is correct. This was the "best" run and I didn't get to tune anything because my fueling took a shiit. Those of you who wanted to see me fail, I hope you're happy.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344992682

You just saved yourself. Now stop going to Ed's dyno. Something is definitely up with it. We have watched an LS miata failboat on it along with several other cars. I don't think it can properly handle cars with higher horse power. Go hit up the dynojet that Soviet dynoed on and see what you do there. I bet you do a ton better.

Also I am glad to see you fail. But what I really want to see is for you to succeed.

What do your logs on the street after the dyno time say about being lean?

13 members currently viewing this thread thread. Holy $hit! How much boost were you running? How does it feel compared to your old (3071) setup?

Nice work, and I feel your pain. I managed a whooping 155hp myself.

Is that the same place that had that badass karmann ghia in the shop? and Lars ran on the dyno and they kicked him off? If so, F that dyno...

I don't think the collective group of us want to see you fail. Personally, I love seeing someone push the limits of the platform and I appreciate the efforts involved in what you've done.

So you didn't get the numbers you wanted, obviously you're having some issues with the car. Regardless of that, I feel pretty confident in saying that 99% of us would absolutely love for our cars to make 350whp and the vast majority of the remaining 1% have 3x the displacement you do.

Well, while I don't enjoy seeing anyone fail, as much talk as this thing had, it kind of strikes me as karma getting even.

However! I will personally donate money to see this thing PROPERLY dynoed.
I hate seeing shit malfunction, and I'm confident in your ever expanding confidence to get this biotch runningw properly!

I agree, go figure the fuelling, and get to another dyno shop.

Dann

Yes it is the same shop. I made 225hp at 9psi on his dyno, then at the next dyno day I made 240hp with 17psi. An FM build LS swap miata hardly cracked 300hp if I remember correctly. So I think there is definitely something going on with the dyno and cars that can make more then 250hp.

I really want to see Min's car on a dynojet.

Fix it and get back on the rollers. You've got half the forum watching your every post now. I think you won...

Shit is still better than most... torque looks f'ed?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1344994425

And here is the full report.

Details:

• 93 Maryland Pump. Exxon
• 100% M1 VP Fuel Meth
• 90* ambient, 80% or so humidity
• Pulls were done in 4th gear.
• Did about 10 pulls, most all were fail.
• Highest boost pulls were 36psi but Ed had the ratio wrong and it read like 200hp or something stupid.

• I am not sure that Ed got the ratio correct for the dyno for the whole session.
• Boost onset is way messed up. He was not putting any load on the rollers. He was in the process of increasing it and then things started to go lean. I tried a few pulls at low boost 15psi (which were the weak sounding vids lenny posted), and they were fine. We then tried high boost again and fail.

All in all I am very disappointed. While the session sucked because of dyno operation mix up and being cut short due to fueling, I do not think I will get close to my goals of 600+hp without some major overhaul.

Let's do a virtual dyno, pen and paper:

If you look at my logs, you will see that I am at IDC of 75% at 36psi. Note that Hydra reads IDC as 20% HIGH. So actual IDC is really around 55%. You shouldn't go over 80% real IDCs. Intake temps are fine and dandy with only 10-20* over ambient.

I am running ID1000s with two massive 044 pumps with dual fuel lines on a dual feed rail. The regulator is set at 75psi.

So. My fuel system is theoretically capable of around 650hp crank. Meth and meth map timing adds about 30-60hp. Anyways, let's go with 650hp.

If I am running 75% of my fueling max, that means I am probably running 487hp crank. Subtract 30hp for drivetrain and you get 457hp to the wheels. Subtract 20% for Ed's dyno cruelty, and you end up with 365hp. So the results are probably about accurate.

Right about where I'd expect to be on a 36psi pull on his dyno.

OK. So that is THIRTY SIX PEE ESSS EYE equalling 350-450hp depending on your math/dyno etc.

So now. Let's say I want to max out my injectors and run ALLOFIT. My turbo can flow air for 800hp so trust me, it can keep making more power with more boost. So to max out my injectors, I have to run 25% MORE BOOST.

That means I need to run 45psi to max out my setup.

Other than my shiit breaking, that really makes me sad about having built this miata motor.

Big props to Ed for building a motor that has lasted 10K miles of absolute cruelty. I talked to him about it more and he actually used slightly looser than stock clearances. Anyways, the motor is fine and happy enough.

But 45psi to see 600-650hp crank just sucks. Remember, PSI is an indicator of restriction. And my shiz just doesn't flow and neither does yours. I have PNP head, biggie valves, VVT. Gutted manifold seems to be doing OK since power obviously doesn't take a dip. But the overall setup needs to flow much better and be much more efficient. For realistic over 500hp I think I need bigger IC piping, big plenum manifold, cams. Sigh.

The consequences of running shizloads of boost are blowing head gaskets. Even more crankcase vent needed. Pre-detonation. $$$$$

In the meantime my 330hp to the wheel IS-F will work fine everyday for 100K miles while my turbo miata breaks all the time.

I left the session very disappointed.

a) because my car needs to be fixed again
b) wrong wrong wrong motor for 600hp
c) if i want 600hp it is gonna cost me about $1500 more because really I don't want to run 44psi and have to pull my motor cus I have a blown head gasket.

What now.

Thanks

Thanks i guess.

Sure I will take donations. If you guys can raise enough for two hours on the dyno for me I will do it the week I get back from burning man

It's great how all the responses ceased after I post my thoughts about the results.

You:

1) are typing like a normal human being
2) your reasoning is sane
3) your disappointment is valid
4) ????
5) we all wonder what could possibly be wrong with your car and/or dyno to produce such low results.

We're actually taking you seriously.
You should be proud.

Do you really want us to go back to talking shit, Faefae?

All most of us wanted was just the dyno sheet.

and you're sure its not the fpr?

my buddy had exactly the same fueling issues just the last few days and turned out to be a dying fpr

It could be a few thing, I wonder why you went with a VVT motor to begin with, at least in a BP4W you can run some big cams, that will help you drop a lot of those PSI's.

And we all know it isnt a f20c.

I recently dyno'd a friends E85, 2560, 1.6 that only made 297rwhp, were hoping for 340 odd, you get that.

Dann

r r r r READ MY MATH SECTION. NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE. I think.



FPR. What would be the indicators of dying FPR? I watched the pressure during the pulls after leanness started and pressure was stable.

It is a Aeromotive with like 2000 miles on it. Would it die all of a sudden ish?


F20c makes 600hp at 20-25psi. FML

I have a thing for variable phase cams. No engine should be without. Good point though about the biggie cams. Gonna prob get some cams from GOD GOD GOD BogusSVO.

nigga i will pay money for that. like $20 :giggle:

edit: also Fae fae forgot to mention that meth was leaking. I got a face full of meth during one of the pulls, it was fantastisch

I found a picture of Fae at the dyno:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...YVm_qk1q-atHoA


(compliments of google image search)

also,
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1345005445
^ accurate chart of US external debt.

Exhaust was also leaking preturbo. Fukazoids

Can you still do burnouts on like 4th gear?

N N N NO THEY'RE NOT. I DON'T THINK

And I'm not sure what the symptoms are. I'll ask my buddy. He just started going really lean all of a sudden, exactly like you. Everything else looked good iirc.

A friend's SC GTO randomly started running very lean not long ago. When he'd assembled one of the fuel lines it pinched off a piece of the rubber inside the hose. Apparently it was fine for a while, but eventually broke off and clogged the line. We took the line apart and the piece of rubber just fell out of the hose and it was fixed.

It could be one of the fuel lines is clogged somewhere, with the 2 pumps that would still show full fuel pressure until it started overdrawing the one pump.

Another thing to consider (and one of the reasons why many people stay away from 2 pump setups).

I believe a lean reading could also be caused by misfires. Which would mean that you're feeding the right amount of fuel after all, you're just not burning it. Any bad reading on your plugs?
With the amount of noise going on, I'm not sure if you would necessarily have been able to hear misfires on one cylinder.
BTW: Misfires kill hp too!

What dyno shop is this? York Automotive?

I know Justice Racing Engines just got their dyno in recently. They are in Frederick. Probably be my stop point when the 2.0L gets up and running.

-Greer

....Anyone else see the video? The car should not be spooling at 6k rpm... If the rpms were going up like a free rev it would make sense if the dyno is fail and cannot put enough load but they are not, they are going up in a slow, controlled matter. I mean there isnt much to a dyno. You strap your bitch in and you floor the hibijibies of it.

yep, york automotive

Looks like that QSV is doing its job... 5 psi at 5200 rpm...

Get this shit fixed, son. I want to see you making 550 whp.

Jokes are fun, but there are still a lot of people who I meet who think of the miata as a "little gay car". I want a video of you dynoing 550 whp to shut them the fuck up.

I would do it myself but I am missing the requisite $50k.

It's unlikely that i'll put my money where my mouth is anytime soon, but there's no way $50k is required for a 500whp BP powered Miata. :giggle:

If it does, then holy shit the BP is a piece of shit.

Why do you think my math is wrong? Please tell me. This is very important to me.




When I went to 2x 044 vs. 1 pump, I actually was able to lower my injector duty by about 10%, so it did do -something-. When I put in two pumps I had dreams of 700hp but it seems like that won't happen without redoing my IC piping, my intake, and adding cams for more overall flower I mean flow.


Good idea but it was not misfiring. Misfiring has a special sound and far more obviously, when it misfires, boost falls off. Can't sustain boost on misfires, at least not 20+ psi.


Yes, the load was extra light. Way too light. In 4th, on the street, the turbo is FULLY spooled by about 6000RPM. That means at 4000RPM it's at about 10psi, 5000RPM, 25psi...


Watch this video and stare at the wastegate looking arm right at the turbo. At 0:13 you see the arm move and open up the QSV. I have it set to open at around 30psi. I didn't have time to tune it before it broke. And yes, it does help.

BTW.. Y8s.. I set up my VVT to stay advanced until around 6000RPM and 20psi. This actually helped build boost much faster. I think that in general, you want to stay advanced while the turbo spools up. It spooled up much more slowly when I had it only stay advanced until 4500RPM. Different RPM break points for different sized turbos.

I just pulled a number out of my ass. All I know is it costs more than I can afford ATM. If I win the lottery then I am all in.

Hell, if I win the lottery I am putting one of the 3L V8 from the Ariel Atom in there AND THEN slap a turbo on there.

Because why the fuck not?

yeah i would expect you'd have to find the sweet spots for your build and motor. you've changed a lot of the flow characteristics and natural resonances of the system.

it's easy enough to do a retard run and an advance run and see what works best.

It is. If you do everything twice. Realistically, it can probably be done for around $8-$12,000. Note that LS swap is like $15,000 and you won't break your drivetrain every second.

can we get the 2 threads merged?

I mean we have the SAME EXACT convo going on in both and its confusing as hell