Dyno Fail - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #21
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Someone should virtual dyno his logs and see what those say. Otherwise Min has till midnight eastern time to post a dyno graph from yesterday or he will be banned again.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:04 PM   #22
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Fine. Here. I agreed to do it so here you go.

No, I don't have a plot. Do it yourself. AFR and boost is correct. This was the "best" run and I didn't get to tune anything because my fueling took a shiit. Those of you who wanted to see me fail, I hope you're happy.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Fine. Here. I agreed to do it so here you go.

No, I don't have a plot. Do it yourself. AFR and boost is correct. This was the "best" run and I didn't get to tune anything because my fueling took a shiit. Those of you who wanted to see me fail, I hope you're happy.

You just saved yourself. Now stop going to Ed's dyno. Something is definitely up with it. We have watched an LS miata failboat on it along with several other cars. I don't think it can properly handle cars with higher horse power. Go hit up the dynojet that Soviet dynoed on and see what you do there. I bet you do a ton better.

Also I am glad to see you fail. But what I really want to see is for you to succeed.

What do your logs on the street after the dyno time say about being lean?
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:16 PM   #24
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13 members currently viewing this thread thread. Holy $hit! How much boost were you running? How does it feel compared to your old (3071) setup?
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:18 PM   #25
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Nice work, and I feel your pain. I managed a whooping 155hp myself.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:18 PM   #26
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Is that the same place that had that badass karmann ghia in the shop? and Lars ran on the dyno and they kicked him off? If so, F that dyno...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:26 PM   #27
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I don't think the collective group of us want to see you fail. Personally, I love seeing someone push the limits of the platform and I appreciate the efforts involved in what you've done.

So you didn't get the numbers you wanted, obviously you're having some issues with the car. Regardless of that, I feel pretty confident in saying that 99% of us would absolutely love for our cars to make 350whp and the vast majority of the remaining 1% have 3x the displacement you do.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:28 PM   #28
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Well, while I don't enjoy seeing anyone fail, as much talk as this thing had, it kind of strikes me as karma getting even.

However! I will personally donate money to see this thing PROPERLY dynoed.
I hate seeing **** malfunction, and I'm confident in your ever expanding confidence to get this biotch runningw properly!
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #29
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I agree, go figure the fuelling, and get to another dyno shop.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
Is that the same place that had that badass karmann ghia in the shop? and Lars ran on the dyno and they kicked him off? If so, F that dyno...
Yes it is the same shop. I made 225hp at 9psi on his dyno, then at the next dyno day I made 240hp with 17psi. An FM build LS swap miata hardly cracked 300hp if I remember correctly. So I think there is definitely something going on with the dyno and cars that can make more then 250hp.

I really want to see Min's car on a dynojet.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:33 PM   #31
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Fix it and get back on the rollers. You've got half the forum watching your every post now. I think you won...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:34 PM   #32
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**** is still better than most... torque looks f'ed?

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:48 PM   #33
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And here is the full report.

Details:
  • 93 Maryland Pump. Exxon
  • 100% M1 VP Fuel Meth
  • 90* ambient, 80% or so humidity
  • Pulls were done in 4th gear.
  • Did about 10 pulls, most all were fail.
  • Highest boost pulls were 36psi but Ed had the ratio wrong and it read like 200hp or something stupid.
  • I am not sure that Ed got the ratio correct for the dyno for the whole session.
  • Boost onset is way messed up. He was not putting any load on the rollers. He was in the process of increasing it and then things started to go lean. I tried a few pulls at low boost 15psi (which were the weak sounding vids lenny posted), and they were fine. We then tried high boost again and fail.

All in all I am very disappointed. While the session sucked because of dyno operation mix up and being cut short due to fueling, I do not think I will get close to my goals of 600+hp without some major overhaul.

Let's do a virtual dyno, pen and paper:

If you look at my logs, you will see that I am at IDC of 75% at 36psi. Note that Hydra reads IDC as 20% HIGH. So actual IDC is really around 55%. You shouldn't go over 80% real IDCs. Intake temps are fine and dandy with only 10-20* over ambient.

I am running ID1000s with two massive 044 pumps with dual fuel lines on a dual feed rail. The regulator is set at 75psi.

So. My fuel system is theoretically capable of around 650hp crank. Meth and meth map timing adds about 30-60hp. Anyways, let's go with 650hp.

If I am running 75% of my fueling max, that means I am probably running 487hp crank. Subtract 30hp for drivetrain and you get 457hp to the wheels. Subtract 20% for Ed's dyno cruelty, and you end up with 365hp. So the results are probably about accurate.

Right about where I'd expect to be on a 36psi pull on his dyno.

OK. So that is THIRTY SIX PEE ESSS EYE equalling 350-450hp depending on your math/dyno etc.

So now. Let's say I want to max out my injectors and run ALLOFIT. My turbo can flow air for 800hp so trust me, it can keep making more power with more boost. So to max out my injectors, I have to run 25% MORE BOOST.

That means I need to run 45psi to max out my setup.

Other than my shiit breaking, that really makes me sad about having built this miata motor.

Big props to Ed for building a motor that has lasted 10K miles of absolute cruelty. I talked to him about it more and he actually used slightly looser than stock clearances. Anyways, the motor is fine and happy enough.

But 45psi to see 600-650hp crank just sucks. Remember, PSI is an indicator of restriction. And my shiz just doesn't flow and neither does yours. I have PNP head, biggie valves, VVT. Gutted manifold seems to be doing OK since power obviously doesn't take a dip. But the overall setup needs to flow much better and be much more efficient. For realistic over 500hp I think I need bigger IC piping, big plenum manifold, cams. Sigh.

The consequences of running shizloads of boost are blowing head gaskets. Even more crankcase vent needed. Pre-detonation. $$$$$

In the meantime my 330hp to the wheel IS-F will work fine everyday for 100K miles while my turbo miata breaks all the time.

I left the session very disappointed.

a) because my car needs to be fixed again
b) wrong wrong wrong motor for 600hp
c) if i want 600hp it is gonna cost me about $1500 more because really I don't want to run 44psi and have to pull my motor cus I have a blown head gasket.

What now.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messiahx View Post
Fix it and get back on the rollers. You've got half the forum watching your every post now. I think you won...
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by glade View Post
Well, while I don't enjoy seeing anyone fail, as much talk as this thing had, it kind of strikes me as karma getting even.

However! I will personally donate money to see this thing PROPERLY dynoed.
I hate seeing **** malfunction, and I'm confident in your ever expanding confidence to get this biotch runningw properly!
Thanks i guess.

Sure I will take donations. If you guys can raise enough for two hours on the dyno for me I will do it the week I get back from burning man
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:42 PM   #35
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It's great how all the responses ceased after I post my thoughts about the results.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
It's great how all the responses ceased after I post my thoughts about the results.
You:

1) are typing like a normal human being
2) your reasoning is sane
3) your disappointment is valid
4) ????
5) we all wonder what could possibly be wrong with your car and/or dyno to produce such low results.

We're actually taking you seriously.
You should be proud.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
It's great how all the responses ceased after I post my thoughts about the results.
Do you really want us to go back to talking ****, Faefae?

All most of us wanted was just the dyno sheet.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:49 PM   #38
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and you're sure its not the fpr?

my buddy had exactly the same fueling issues just the last few days and turned out to be a dying fpr
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:13 AM   #39
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It could be a few thing, I wonder why you went with a VVT motor to begin with, at least in a BP4W you can run some big cams, that will help you drop a lot of those PSI's.

And we all know it isnt a f20c.

I recently dyno'd a friends E85, 2560, 1.6 that only made 297rwhp, were hoping for 340 odd, you get that.

Dann
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:47 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
You:

1) are typing like a normal human being
2) your reasoning is sane
3) your disappointment is valid
4) ????
5) we all wonder what could possibly be wrong with your car and/or dyno to produce such low results.

We're actually taking you seriously.
You should be proud.
r r r r READ MY MATH SECTION. NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE. I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
and you're sure its not the fpr?

my buddy had exactly the same fueling issues just the last few days and turned out to be a dying fpr

FPR. What would be the indicators of dying FPR? I watched the pressure during the pulls after leanness started and pressure was stable.

It is a Aeromotive with like 2000 miles on it. Would it die all of a sudden ish?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
It could be a few thing, I wonder why you went with a VVT motor to begin with, at least in a BP4W you can run some big cams, that will help you drop a lot of those PSI's.

And we all know it isnt a f20c.

I recently dyno'd a friends E85, 2560, 1.6 that only made 297rwhp, were hoping for 340 odd, you get that.

Dann
F20c makes 600hp at 20-25psi. FML

I have a thing for variable phase cams. No engine should be without. Good point though about the biggie cams. Gonna prob get some cams from GOD GOD GOD BogusSVO.
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